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WHS - Course Handicap Calculstion

  • 28-11-2020 3:18pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ david2002


    What is the logic of GB & Ire using a different course handicap calculation that the standard WHS calculation.
    As the one adopted does not take (course rating minus par) into account a player will have tge same handicap on all tees on a course thus eliminating the possibility of multi tee competitions.
    i.e if a player has a choice of tees playing off the same handicap why would they pick any tee other than the forward tees.

    There has to be a logical reason for this decision. Just curious as to what that is.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    david2002 wrote: »
    What is the logic of GB & Ire using a different course handicap calculation that the standard WHS calculation.
    As the one adopted does not take (course rating minus par) into account a player will have tge same handicap on all tees on a course thus eliminating the possibility of multi tee competitions.
    i.e if a player has a choice of tees playing off the same handicap why would they pick any tee other than the forward tees.

    There has to be a logical reason for this decision. Just curious as to what that is.
    That's not strictly true. Take a course with white tees rated at 127 and blue tees at 136, a 14 handicap will have 15 off the whites and 16 off the blues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭ Snotty


    Do you mean where a course could have a different par off different tees?

    Otherwise it's very much included, I'm off 6 on our green tee, 8 off the whites and 10 of the blues, all par 73.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ david2002


    Have those handicaps been confirmed to you?
    Or are are you calculating them yourself from WHS system.

    The course handicap at our course per the tables provided by golf ireland have a player off 13.5 index playing of 15 on eack of our 3 courses
    Blue - slope 129 - par 72 - rating 72.9
    White - slope 126 - par 72 - rating 72.1
    Green - slooe 124 - par 72 - rating 70.7
    (Exact slopes not quoted but close enough)

    Snotty wrote: »
    Do you mean where a course could have a different par off different tees?

    Otherwise it's very much included, I'm off 6 on our green tee, 8 off the whites and 10 of the blues, all par 73.


  • Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭ RGS


    The course calculation in the Ireland is:

    handicap index multiply by course rating divided by 113 .

    We have a reduction afterwards for the playing handicap depending on the competition.

    Your example does give a similar course handicap but the playing handicap will change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ david2002


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    That's not strictly true. Take a course with white tees rated at 127 and blue tees at 136, a 14 handicap will have 15 off the whites and 16 off the blues.


    Your logic was exactly what i thought would happen with the calculation but my club official tells me in GB & ire that is not the case.
    RGS confirms this in his post when there is no mention of "course rating" minus par in the playing handicap calc.
    So most likely a player will play off the same handicap regarless of tees unless 4/113 of an adjusrment makes a material difference to playing handicap.
    I reallt would love someone to prove me wrong because i currently dont favour that aporoach although i am a whs supporter generally.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ david2002


    RGS wrote: »
    The course calculation in the Ireland is:

    handicap index multiply by course rating divided by 113 .

    We have a reduction afterwards for the playing handicap depending on the competition.

    Your example does give a similar course handicap but the playing handicap will change.

    ----
    Are you confirming therefore that a players handicap will not increase if he plays the blue tees (in my example)
    i.e. if the GB & ire the there will not be a 0.8 difference in handicap on white (rating 72.1) and blue 72.9.
    So bar the difference in slope rating which is minimal there will be no significant difference in handicap between playing blue and green.
    Hence if there is a multi tee comp why would anyone play back tees?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    david2002 wrote: »
    Your logic was exactly what i thought would happen with the calculation but my club official tells me in GB & ire that is not the case.
    RGS confirms this in his post when there is no mention of "course rating" minus par in the playing handicap calc.
    So most likely a player will play off the same handicap regarless of tees unless 4/113 of an adjusrment makes a material difference to playing handicap.
    I reallt would love someone to prove me wrong because i currently dont favour that aporoach although i am a whs supporter generally.
    I wasn't using course rating - par. I was using the system in place in GB and IE. If there's only 4 in the difference in slope rating between one set of tees and another, only the higher handicaps will get an extra shot (or more) when playing off the back tees. I would assume that this is no different (for lower handicaps) when playing under CONGU as it's unlikely that such a small difference between sets of tees would result in different SSS for each of them.

    What are the slope ratings for your tees?


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ david2002


    Blue 129 Rating 72.9 (Old SSS 73)
    White 127 Rating 72.1 (Old SSS 72)
    Green 124 Rating 70.7 (Old SSS 69)

    It is a links course where older members sometimes struggle to reach the fairway from the White/Blue tees.
    There was a hope the club would run multi tee competitions so all members could compete in one competition on a level playing field.
    The minimal difference in slope does not seem to make this possible.

    An 80 year old off Hcp Index 12 might opt to play green due to poor lenght off the tee.
    A 30 year also off 12 handicap index who prefers the challenge of the white/blue tees is at a disadvantage if he chooses to do so, receiving the same number of shots for a course which the course rating says is 1.4 shots more difficult (in the case of white)

    It is this scenario that was behind my original post in this thread.

    If (course rating - par) was taken onto account in calculation of playing handicap there would be a level playing field for the above 2 competitors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭ Golfgraffix


    david2002 wrote: »

    If (course rating - par) was taken onto account in calculation of playing handicap there would be a level playing field for the above 2 competitors.

    My understanding is that whs allows for multi tee competitions without the need for handicap adjustments once the par for each set of tees is the same.

    I see that handicapmaster still has the option when setting up a comp to adjust handicaps for multi tee comps


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    david2002 wrote: »
    Blue 129 Rating 72.9 (Old SSS 73)
    White 127 Rating 72.1 (Old SSS 72)
    Green 124 Rating 70.7 (Old SSS 69)

    It is a links course where older members sometimes struggle to reach the fairway from the White/Blue tees.
    There was a hope the club would run multi tee competitions so all members could compete in one competition on a level playing field.
    The minimal difference in slope does not seem to make this possible.

    An 80 year old off Hcp Index 12 might opt to play green due to poor lenght off the tee.
    A 30 year also off 12 handicap index who prefers the challenge of the white/blue tees is at a disadvantage if he chooses to do so, receiving the same number of shots for a course which the course rating says is 1.4 shots more difficult (in the case of white)

    It is this scenario that was behind my original post in this thread.

    If (course rating - par) was taken onto account in calculation of playing handicap there would be a level playing field for the above 2 competitors.
    Slope ratings are very close to be fair. Pretty much the same with course ratings bar the Green tees. But your 12 HI player is going to have an extra shot off the back tees compared to the greens by my calculations.

    12 * 124/113 = 13 * 95% = 12
    12 * 129/113 = 14 * 95% = 13

    It's pretty much a one stroke difference all the way up to around 40 when it goes to a two stroke difference.


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