Advantages of converting a van to a campervan

cpsrman

Hi everyone, I’m new here and would appreciate your thoughts and advice. I have read the various threads re converting a van to a camper van but have a few questions where I’d appreciate your help!

Context:
I am a 50 year old man, single, and my circumstances won’t be changing at this stage of my life
I have 2 cars, the second of which is a 20 year old Micra which doesn’t see much use. Both cars are insured in my name with 10+ years no claims bonus on each.

My Plans:
To purchase a 4-6 year old van to use for getaway breaks around Ireland, mainly at weekends during April-October.
I would be the only person sleeping in the rear of the van. My needs are very simple - a good quality mattress to sleep on, a nice warm duvet for chilly nights, a soft seat, and that’s about it. Items that I could easily remove if I needed the van to transport other goods (lawnmower, beds etc) if the need arose from time to time. I don’t cook and don’t watch TV etc. Driving by day would charge my smartphone.
By day, I would take in some driving and in the evenings lots of walks. I would only need to use the rear from 11pm to 9am. I could have my snacks in the front cab.

Query:
I don’t need a “proper” camper van as far as I am concerned. An ordinary van would suit my needs, but I am conscious of the potential savings and additional comforts if I invested in conversion. Basically I am wondering if the tax and insurance savings would outweigh the conversion costs. I would not be able to do the work myself, so would need to go to a conversion company which would cost more I’m sure but would be more convenient.

Questions:
So, let’s say I was to consider buying a 2016/7 Renault Trafic or similar, or Renault Master or similar.

1. I understand that, strictly speaking, I should tax the van as private (I am not VAT registered and do not operate a commercial business, though I do rent out two houses and would use the van to transport goods for house repairs etc). What information / evidence would the Motor Tax office require if I was to tax the van as a commercial vehicle, or would they take my word for it if I declare it as commercial? Lots of people I know drive vans as their principle vehicles and aren’t involved in commercial business. In my case, I’d have a car for my main transport, and a van to use for weekend breaks mainly.

2. Insurance - What information / evidence would the Insurance companies require if I was to insure the van as a commercial vehicle? It probably varies from any company to another. Any recommendations?

3. Conversion to camper - I wonder what the min costs would likely be? I note the minimum requirements re dual plate stove, bed, seating etc. Any ballpark ideas of cost? I note one company in Donegal offer a conversion for Trafic / Transit Custom / Transporter at €3.5k but don’t know how this compares.

3. Roof height - I note that some insurance companies will only insure as a camper where the roof height is 1.8m or more. This would mean having to buy a larger more expensive van for conversion (eg Master, Transit high roof) whereas a smaller ordinary commercial van would do me fine.

4. Annual running costs:

Commercial van taxed as private and insured as private - say Trafic 1.6 dCi - estimated €600+€700=€1,300 (my figures which are a rough guess)

Commercial van taxed as commercial and insured as commercial - €333+€667=€1,000

Converted camper van - €102+€398=€500

Comparing the latter two options, and assuming no issues in taxing and insuring as commercial, if the conversion cost in the range €3.5k to €5k, it could take up to 10 years to recoup the costs of conversion in annual running costs. The vehicle would be 15 years old at that stage and I would probably upgrade again; while a camper would be worth more than an ordinary van, the residual value difference would be much I’m sure. I don’t think I’d get the €3.5k-€5k back.

Conclusion:

For me, given my situation and very basic needs, I am inclined to think that an ordinary van would suit best. In fact, I’d prefer the anonymity of a van in some ways. And the flexibility to transport beds, lawnmowers etc in it. And the fact that I wouldn’t need to fork out for a high roof van. Or a large engine one - a 1.6 litre would be perfect and there’s lots more choice and fresher vehicles available at that level. I could insulate it as has been suggested earlier and add a skylight / ventilation. I wouldn’t even bother with getting side windows fitted as would only sleep in the back during hours of darkness.

So, am I mad or what??? All suggestions and advice welcome!!! And if I’ve missed anything, do please let me know. Thanks in advance!!!

StupidLikeAFox

If you converted a van to camper legitimately you would need to buy the van, convert it, pay an sqi to certify it, pay the vrt then find an insurer who will cover you.

If you bought a van and taxed and insured it commercially then you would need to pay for the removable furnitur that you need to sleep in it. So the costs would be low - with the caveat that if something goes wrong you could be in a gray area in terms of insurance, and that you are confined to campsites when you consider toilet/cooking facilities.

Really it depends your appetite for comfort and risk

spaceHopper

You don't need a kitchen but it's much nicer to have good food when you are way, be able to make a cup of tea, a snack... so I would say a kitchen is a must, it's also a requirement to be classed as a camper. I only ever wild camp so having a toilet, enven on you pull out is also a must, just for emergencies.

If I was you I'd save myself the hassle of converting a can and get one that is done even a 1990's 2000's VW and spend a bit on on fixing it up.

The other option is a pull out kit and a smaller van/people carrier like a berlingo. These guys do a nice kit https://errigalcampers.ie You could get rid of both cars and just have one with the camper kit. One tax one insurance might not even need to tell the insurance about the camper box just don't keep gas in it.

Actually looking at their larger camper module you could put it in the back of a van and go.

I convert over buy because then I have quality control. Factory fit jobs have an awful lottov shyte fitted they'd want me to pay for so I can skip it and fit capable gear after I buy it. Metal shells are waaay stronger.

cpsrman

Thanks folks for your feedback which is very helpful. I had forgotten that the van conversion would attract VRT if registering as a camper van. Also, having a pull out toilet would be important for sure and I hadn’t thought of that. Food for thought. Much appreciated.

Just get one that's already a camper and start over if you don't fancy VRT.

Plenty out there are not much more than a cert, a sink, anna bed.

CelticRambler

cpsrman wrote: »

I am a 50 year old man, single, and my circumstances won’t be changing at this stage of my life

:eek:

I have a few years on you, but hope my circumstances in that respect will change sooner rather than later! :pac:

Apart from your limited requirements in terms of spec, you say that you wouldn't want/be able to do any van conversion yourself, so I'd have to ask if there's any good reason to go down this route. As pointed out by others above, one of the justifications for doing a conversion is to be able to have a vehicle that has the maximum quality and features possible for a given weight and budget. If you're at the level of not being too fussed about whether or not you've got a toilet or a cooker, then I can't quite see the value.

The woman that I'd very much like to change my circumstances has a Kangoo fitted out with a fold-up bed across the boot space, a cool box and a camping stove. That's enough for her travels across the continent, and although I've got one of the factory-outfitted models (complete with three-way fridge) despised by SirLiamalot :pac: I can see the advantages. In fact, prior to swapping a bricks-and-mortar house for a fibreglass box, we - a family unit of 2 adults + 4 children traipsed all over Europe in a Volvo 740 estate (so comfortable and roomy it didn't need to be "fitted out" with beds). And over the first six months of this year, while my 'van was off the road, I relearnt some old habits when forced to do a series of 600km commutes in a Mégane.

As for the toilet arrangements - in the aforementioned Volvo, we had (still have ... ) a child's portable toilet-seat-potty-type thing. Literally the "seat" part of a potty and a rim on which to hang a plastic bag, that folds away into a space about the size of a 500-sheet pack of A4 paper. The only person who ever used it was MrsCR. For liquid waste, be inspired by the long-distance truckers: a wide-necked plastic bottle will serve you as well as any pull-out glorified bucket.

If you don't need the Micra for anything else, I'd suggest you start messing around with that first. Throw in a coolbox, a camping stove, some kind of chamber pot and a mattress and take it away for a few weekends. On the basis of that experience, refine your opinion as to what you want from your ideal vehicle (and maybe re-test them in the Micra).

I wouldn't say I despise them I just can't understand why you'd buy a Lada when a Toyota is the same price.
If people ask me to make them perform better I advise them to throw them away and get a good one. Let's face it nobody in their right mind would put one in a house and if the vessel came with a compressor nobody would go the other way.

Del2005

Were are you getting €667 for insurance? Was talking to my brother in law recently and he's paying €900 for insurance for a van with full NCD. Also getting commercial insurance can be difficult if you don't have a business need. Getting commercial tax depends on what County you live in and if you don't you are paying tax on the old cc system not emissions.

Plenty of cheap old campers on donedeal.ie that you can buy and make comfortable for the price of 4/5 van

dory

CelticRambler wrote: »

The woman that I'd very much like to change my circumstances has a Kangoo fitted out with a fold-up bed across the boot space, a cool box and a camping stove. That's enough for her travels across the continent.

This sounds like my perfect set up! Can I ask, did she get it classified as a camper? I'd like to do a postman pat type van but dont think it would pass inspection for being so small. I've been reading the Camping Assoc requirements and they want a person to be able to live reasonably comfortably in it. As a smallish woman I think I'd be comfortable.

CelticRambler

dory wrote: »

did she get it classified as a camper? I'd like to do a postman pat type van but dont think it would pass inspection for being so small.

Nope ... but then we live in a different country, with an entirely different attitude to living on the side of the road!

With our movement restrictions being relaxed in a couple of weeks, I'm hoping she'll be dropping in for a few days sometime around Christmas/New Year. I'll ask her if I can take a photo or two.

StupidLikeAFox

Here is a kit you can buy for a kangoo van:

https://www.simplecampervans.com/shop/conversion-modules/renault-kangoo-camper-van-conversion/

No hope of getting it registered as a camper in my opinion. It at least needs windows and a permanent cooker and sink if I recall correctly. Basically the changes need to be permanent and not easily reversed

CJhaughey

If you intend on converting something that small, you would be better off buying a passenger version of the Kangoo/Partner called the Tepee, that way its a passenger vehicle and not subject to the commercial tax problem.
Just buy it and insure it as a private car and then get the removable camping kit for it.

Don't bother with camper tax and insurance it will only be hassle in a van that size.
The private tax will be cheap enough anyway and insurance should be reasonable as well.