Advice Please

tinner777

hi,

so I bought this treadmill from fitness digital.ie who are a Spanish company not Irish as the website would suggest;

https://www.fitnessdigital.ie/proform-power-575i-treadmill/p/10016078/?ct=106

All good and has worked great for 14 months.

Develops problem with either belt or motor, I've completed the self help stuff to no avail.

Contact the seller who put me onto to this crowd;

http://www.iconsupport.eu/

Only a phone line, no email, they tell me only one year warranty. I tell them I have two years warranty from Fitness digital. They will not entertain this. Apparently I had 28 days to register. I do not remember seeing this on the treadmill being delivered and it is not mentioned anywhere on my invoice or the site.

So, back onto fitness digital, who are now ignoring my emails. I found a support email address for icon support who have not replied.

I paid €699 for a treadmill that worked for 14 months that has been used a little by me and three\four times a week by my wife and son.

Have you lot any advice for me?

Thanks for reading.

Samuel T. Cogley

You have a minimum two year protection which is law in all EU member states. I'm not getting drawn into an argument on this, take it to legal discussions - but it is relevant in this case as there may be a jurisdictional issue. The problem is after six months you are required to show the lack of conformity of the goods existed at the time of delivery of the goods. I.e. its a manufacturing defect not wear and tear, so you may need an independent report.

There is a European Small Claims procedure but I have no idea how enforcement works with a successful claim.

https://www.eccireland.ie/

tinner777

Hi,

so the manufacturer replied;

Good morning,
Please note that we, as the manufacturer, have a 1 year of standard warranty with the possibility of extension if the unit is being registered online within 28 days from the date of purchase. In this case, the unit was not registered, therefore it only had 1 year of warranty.
Please see our warranty terms here: https://www.proformfitness.co.uk/customer-service/warranty-information
Warranty upgrades are available on certain ProForm products subject to registering your warranty within 28 days of purchase by either completing and returning the warranty card (included in the box) or by registering your details here.
The online registration was only made this year, on 18/11/2020 when it should've been made back in 2019, within 28 days from the date of purchase.
The warranty details are also on the warranty card that's coming with the unit.
Unfortunately the unit's warranty has expired on 02/09/2020.
Kind regards,Michael M.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You have a minimum two year protection which is law in all EU member states.]

Not meaning to draw you into an argument about this, are you certain this was transposed into Irish law?

It’s up to each country if they wish to implement them, it does not necessarily apply to all.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/indexamp_en.htm

And Ireland appears not to as it was felt our consumer law offers better protection.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/ireland/index_en.htm

Samuel T. Cogley

Manufacturer is free to offer only one year. Your recourse is through the seller, assuming they are different.

Samuel T. Cogley

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Manufacturer is free to offer only one year. Your recourse is through the seller, assuming they are different.

Ya, Spain did adopt the 2 yr guarantee, but as you said, it’s the seller rather than the manufacturer that the op has to go after.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/spain/index_en.htm

Samuel T. Cogley

Dav010 wrote: »

Not meaning to draw you into an argument about this, are you certain this was transposed into Irish law?

It’s up to each country if they wish to implement them, it does not necessarily apply to all.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/indexamp_en.htm

And Ireland appears not to as it was felt our consumer law offers better protection.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/ireland/index_en.htm

Incorrectly transposed directives still have indirect effect. I trust GM228 in Legal Discussions who put me right on my mistaken assertion it was a limitation period not a minimum warranty. Ireland has a six year limitation period but does not specify a minimum warranty period so we go back to indirect Effect.

It's a minimum standard applicable in all member states as the contract may not have concluded in Ireland here.

The way a directive must be transposed:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=legissum:l14527

I do concede that some DC Judges or Registrars may be doing their own thing. I have seen threads where reports have been requested, where they haven't, where the reasonable period standard has been applied and partial refunds awarded and where it's been said it's just one year.

My overriding advice is small claims in the first instance and only try in invoke the two year minimum if you have to as it requires the claimant to prove the lack of conformity after six months.

As an aside hopefully all this will be resolved soon as they are proposing to put the onus on the seller to prove conformity for the entire two years.

tinner777

Sent an email to https://www.eccireland.ie/.

6 working days for a reply.

I'll let you know when they reply.

Thanks

tinner777

Dear Tin,

Indeed you have two years warranty, we attach the invoice for you.

For a solution to this problem you need to really contact the technical engineers.

Kind regards

Reply from fitness digital. However, since manufacturer replied, they have ignored further emails.

ActingDanClark

tinner777 wrote: »

Sent an email to https://www.eccireland.ie/.

6 working days for a reply.

I'll let you know when they reply.

Thanks

You'll get lots of emails about their little adventures and newsletters to tell you how fabulous they are but I doubt they'll address your complaint

tinner777

so

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 at 15:17, Customercare fitnessdigital IE <customercare.ie@fitnessdigital.ie> wrote:
Dear Michael

We are writing from the fitnessdigital team to confirm that this customer who bought the machine with us on 31/08/19 has the right to a two year warranty based on the invoice (attached) no matter if he registered the PETL78718 or not on your site.

Please proceed wiht the necessary steps to provide a solution for this client and if you have any queries about this please contact us.

Kind regards

Inge
on behalf of the fitnessdigital team

tinner777

and then

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email!

Like we've stated in the previous email, we, as the manufacturer, have a 1 year of standard warranty with the possibility of extension if the unit is being registered online within 28 days from the date of purchase. In this case, the unit was not registered, therefore it only had 1 year of warranty.

Please see our warranty terms here: https://www.proformfitness.co.uk/customer-service/warranty-information

Warranty upgrades are available on certain ProForm products subject to registering your warranty within 28 days of purchase by either completing and returning the warranty card (included in the box) or by registering your details here.

The online registration was only made this year, on 18/11/2020 when it should've been made back in 2019, within 28 days from the date of purchase.

All the details about the warranty and the warranty extension are being supplied in the instructions manual, on the warranty card and on our website. The customer's warranty has expired on 02/09/2020.

The customer can contact our authorized engineers in his location as they would be able to advise about the costs of a repair/appointment. Their contact details are as follows:

Gymfix
Telephone number: 00353 872511678
Email address: service@gymfixireland.com

Kind regards,
Michael M.

Samuel T. Cogley

Thats a new one the seller (who must provide a service) telling the manufacturer to do it (who do not have to provide service).

Pkiernan

Ideal for Small Claims Court against the retailer.

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Ideal for Small Claims Court against the retailer.

The retailer is based in Spain.

Graham

Dav010 wrote: »

The retailer is based in Spain.

European Small Claims Procedure (€25):

https://www.courts.ie/european-small-claims-procedure

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html#

Graham

Graham wrote: »

European Small Claims Procedure (€25):

https://www.courts.ie/european-small-claims-procedure

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html#

Sorry, yes, I thought the poster meant the local SCC for Irish retailers.

tinner777

Pkiernan wrote: »

Ideal for Small Claims Court against the retailer.

Graham wrote: »

European Small Claims Procedure (€25):

https://www.courts.ie/european-small-claims-procedure

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html#

At this stage would I claim for cost of fix??

Graham

My thoughts; it's not your place to arrange to get it fixed so claim the full cost of the item.

tinner777

so;
Good afternoon Sir,

Please be aware that, as written on the warranty registration card that you should have received with your fitness machine once it was delivered, you should have registered your machine with us, within the 28 days from the date of purchase.

If not, you only had teh standard warranty (for 1 year).

Unfortunately, we could not find any record of your warranty registration request last year. In consequence, we will have to deal with your service request out of warranty.

If you have any proof that you have sent us the warranty form / request in due time, last year, please provide it to us.

Thank you for your understanding!

Kind regards,
Cleo D.

tinner777

me,


Tin Tinner <
4:07 PM (5 hours ago)

to Customer, Customercare

Hi,

As clearly stated above I have at least a two year warranty, which in Ireland, is noted as the minimal period and could be extended to six years. I’m unsure on how my registering the treadmill with you would impact this?

I would like this treadmill fixed otherwise I will be enquiring my rights under the Small claims court.

Kind regards,

Pete

tinner777

then

Dear Mr. Tin,

Thank you for contacting the European Consumer Centre in Ireland (ECC Ireland).
ECC Ireland offers free information and advice to the public on their rights as consumers in the European Union, assisting consumers with cross-border complaints. As part of a network of 30 centres co-financed by the European Commission and the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, ECC Ireland is also involved in a number of pan-European projects. Please note that our services are strictly out-of-court and we do not have any sanctioning or enforcement powers.

I note from the problem description the nature of your complaint concerned a fault in the treadmill purchased.

---

In relation to your query please be informed that under the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees Directive 99/44/EC the final seller must deliver the goods to the consumer in conformity with the contract of sale. Hence, in the event of a lack of conformity (i.e. flowers delivered were not as described) at the time of delivery, the consumer may request to have the goods brought into conformity, and in this case by to have the item repair or replaced, at no additional cost, or even to have the contract rescinded if the mentioned remedies cannot be completed within a reasonable time or without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

In relation to the lack of conformity, please note that consumer protection law provides for a reversal of the burden of proof during the first 6-months. During this time there is a rebuttable presumption that an alleged lack of conformity (e.g. faulty goods) existed at the time of delivery, unless the trader proves otherwise, or the alleged defect is incompatible with the nature of the product. After the initial 6-month period, though, it is for the consumer to prove the claim.

Please also note, a manufacture warranty/guarantee, are generally given for a certain period. The manufacture warranty/guarantee are additional protection to consumer rights and not in substitution to consumer statutory rights.

Although provided on a voluntary basis, is legally binding on the seller under the condition laid down in the warranty/guarantee instrument. (i.e. the conditions under, and period during, which the guarantor will repair, replace, or other compensate for, the defective item).

---

Please note that when consumers seek to avail of the said manufacture warranty that wave your entitlement under the legal warranty provided under statute which provide the consumer two year from which to seek remedies under Directive 1999/44/EU as outline above.

In order to further asses your case I would appreciate if you can provide me with the following:
• Invoice receipt.
• Email sent to and received from the seller regarding the fault and
• Any other writing information that may assist your case.

I hope the above information would prove to be of assistance.
Yours sincerely,

Julitza Hernandez | Dispute Resolution Adviser
European Consumer Centre Ireland | MACRO Centre, 1 Green Street, Dublin 7, D07 X6NR
General: +353-1-8797620 | Fax: +353-1-8734328 | www.eccireland.ie | @eccireland

This email and any files attached to it are confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material transmitted.

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As part of the European Consumer Centres Network (ECC-Net), ECC Ireland offers free and confidential information to the public on their rights as consumers in the European Union, and provides assistance in the amicable resolution of cross-border consumer disputes. Please note that we do not have any enforcement or sanctioning powers and our services are strictly out-of-court. Whilst every effort is made to update cases every 20 working days, at times of heavy demand we cannot always guarantee this. ECC Ireland accepts no liability for incidental, consequential, or indirect damages arising out of the use of or inability to use the service, or (ii) any claim attributable to delays, errors, omissions, or other inaccuracies in the service and/or materials or information provided. Unless otherwise requested, case-related data including personal data might be made available to the ECC-Net member where the trader complained about is based, as well as the European Commission. The collection and processing of data through ECC-Net follows the provisions of Regulation (EC) No. 45/2001 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 December 2000 on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data by Community institutions and bodies and on the free movement of such data. ECC Ireland’s Privacy Statement is available at https://www.eccireland.ie/privacy-statement/

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tinner777

Dear Ms. Tinner,

I have now sought assistance from our ECC-Net counterparts in Spain.

I must emphasise that ECC-Net has no enforcement or sanctioning powers and, therefore, the outcome of your complaint in this instance is dependent on the trader’s willingness to co-operate.

As per our case handling procedure, we aim to update cases every 20 working days. However, at times of heavy demand we cannot always guarantee this.

Please note that in order to ensure the best possible service to consumers, ECC Ireland seeks feedback in the form of a satisfaction survey. You may receive an email inviting you to take part in this survey in future.

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have any questions in the interim quoting the reference number of your complaint.

Kind regards,

Julitza Hernandez | Dispute Resolution Adviser

guil

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, you need to take it up with the retailer and not the manufacturer. Insist on the retailer getting it repaired/replaced and stop going around in circles with the manufacturer.

tinner777

guil wrote: »

I think you're barking up the wrong tree, you need to take it up with the retailer and not the manufacturer. Insist on the retailer getting it repaired/replaced and stop going around in circles with the manufacturer.

I’ve then both copied in to the same email. I presume the retailer will be using them to get it fixed.

guil

tinner777 wrote: »

I’ve then both copied in to the same email. I presume the retailer will be using them to get it fixed.

Whether they do or not should not be any concern of yours and I would refuse to contact the manufacturer again if the retailer asks.

tinner777

guil wrote: »

Whether they do or not should not be any concern of yours and I would refuse to contact the manufacturer again if the retailer asks.

hi,

how long should I wait until going to small claims court?

Thanks

guil

Others will be better placed to answer but I wouldn't let it lie for much longer