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KBC versus

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  • 26-11-2020 8:42pm
    #1
    endainoz
    Registered Users Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭


    Two men remain in prison over refusal to comply with orders to stay away from controversial Roscommon farm https://jrnl.ie/5279973

    Apologies if discussing an ongoing legal issue is against the rules but I was wondering how posters here feel about this story?

    Sure, a large amount of money was owed to the bank but I don't think it was a gigantic amount that they could have come to an agreement on. Perhaps the fault was on both sides on that one but the way the bank handled it was atrocious. Bringing down dodgy heavys from the North that had loyalist ties was a terrible idea.

    The response they got from local people certainly over the top but it could be seen as neighbours helping each other out. With the amount owed, and as a result of this two men are currently in prison, it's a bit ridiculous and a proper mediator should have sorted out something by now.

    There are probably loads of parts to this story that I'm missing but I'm with the farmer on this one.


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    #2
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,108 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    endainoz wrote: »
    Two men remain in prison over refusal to comply with orders to stay away from controversial Roscommon farm https://jrnl.ie/5279973

    Apologies if discussing an ongoing legal issue is against the rules but I was wondering how posters here feel about this story?

    Sure, a large amount of money was owed to the bank but I don't think it was a gigantic amount that they could have come to an agreement on. Perhaps the fault was on both sides on that one but the way the bank handled it was atrocious. Bringing down dodgy heavys from the North that had loyalist ties was a terrible idea.

    The response they got from local people certainly over the top but it could be seen as neighbours helping each other out. With the amount owed, and as a result of this two men are currently in prison, it's a bit ridiculous and a proper mediator should have sorted out something by now.

    There are probably loads of parts to this story that I'm missing but I'm with the farmer on this one.

    like the murder suicides in Cork the land isn't worth it, they should get on with their life


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    #3
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users Posts: 5,057 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    They were told the could get out if they agreed to stay away from the farm.
    They refused.
    What else was the judge to do?


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    #4
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    As far as I’m aware there wasn’t any attempt to pay the loan in years...

    So no, I’m not with the farmer in this case...

    To me, this case reads like a lad took out a loan, didn’t bother to pay it back and is just trying to tough it out...


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    #5
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    I don't really know the whole story only what people are saying online which I would take with a pinch of salt anyway. Its a pity to see two farmers in jail as an end result and maybe the bank could have went a better way about resolving it. I think it might be better to let them live out their few remaining years living on the farm and sell it at a later stage its not like they can take it with them. They state could have more serious criminals behind bars like lads with 30 previous convictions getting another chance because the prisons are over crowded. if we had unlimited space for everyone that broke the law maybe but I cant see the point in having them in prison if they are not a danger to society. The bank owns the farm if they cant sell it right now thats their loss thats the risk they took when the loaned out the money.


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    #6
    karlitob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭karlitob


    djmc wrote: »
    I don't really know the whole story only what people are saying online which I would take with a pinch of salt anyway. Its a pity to see two farmers in jail as an end result and maybe the bank could have went a better way about resolving it. I think it might be better to let them live out their few remaining years living on the farm and sell it at a later stage its not like they can take it with them. They state could have more serious criminals behind bars like lads with 30 previous convictions getting another chance because the prisons are over crowded. if we had unlimited space for everyone that broke the law maybe but I cant see the point in having them in prison if they are not a danger to society. The bank owns the farm if they cant sell it right now thats their loss thats the risk they took when the loaned out the money.

    So it’s ok to break the law.

    The simple fact is - they didn’t pay their debts, they were taken to court by those who loaned them to money, as is the law of the land, they broke the law, and are in contempt of court. It’s been going on for years - what would you suggest the judge do. What penalties do you think they should face. You should also know that they are not in jail for not laying their debt, they are in jail for being in contempt of court. But don’t let detail get in the away of your opinion

    That’s not including all the madness that went on in the farm - arson, security guards, violence etc.

    Everyone’s mortgage rate is higher cos of people like this.

    No one can pick and choose which laws they prefer to adhere to, no one can say which laws are more important than others (notwithstanding murder and heinous sexual assaults crimes). There are other criminals out there other than violent offenders such as those, I would argue, in banks and banking institutions that led to the bailout that citizens paid for.

    All citizens have a constitutional duty and responsibility to adhere to and abide by the law, as well as be protected by it.

    Why should I bother to adhere to the law and pay by debts if these lads don’t.


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    #7
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    From my understanding they never left their own home and are in jail because they refused to go, during the famine they would have pulled them out and burned or knocked the house. Jail is a bit extreme imo. The bank held the farm as security and now they have it.


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    #8
    JustJoe7240
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    djmc wrote: »
    From my understanding they never left their own home and are in jail because they refused to go, during the famine they would have pulled them out and burned or knocked the house. Jail is a bit extreme imo. The bank held the farm as security and now they have it.

    As you say they refused to go, Jail is hardly extreme if they were the measures necessary for the bank to actually take control of the property


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    #9
    kk.man
    Registered Users Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭kk.man


    djmc wrote: »
    From my understanding they never left their own home and are in jail because they refused to go, during the famine they would have pulled them out and burned or knocked the house. Jail is a bit extreme imo. The bank held the farm as security and now they have it.

    Don't compare the famine with this


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    #10
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    kk.man wrote: »
    Don't compare the famine with this

    Why? Could you not say they were farmers evicted from their family homes by the authorities for not paying their debt and refusing to leave in both cases.


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    #11
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    As someone who has a fairly hefty mortage and so far has managed to make the payments i dont support this carry on.all the hops that you now have to jump through when taking out a loan are directly coming from this kind of lark.we are all paying extra for loans because of this and ireland has.one of the.lowest repocession rates in europe which results in less competition in the market.so the next time you are maling your repayment think how much sooner or less you would have to pay if there was none of this stuff.this is not like the famine those people had nothing whereas alot of these cases had assets already and made poor decisions


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    #12
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    djmc wrote: »
    Why? Could you not say they were farmers evicted from their family homes by the authorities for not paying their debt and refusing to leave in both cases.

    No, I don’t think so at all DJ.

    During the famine, eviction often meant death, either on the road or in the workhouse. That is not enough case now.

    Also, during the famine, farmers had no choice. There was no law, the landlord was the law, this also isn’t the case now.

    Lastly, and this is the biggest one - in the famine people had little choice and they did their utmost to pay the rent. People now have more choices, and I think in this instance, the intention to pay doesn’t seem to have been there...

    I think this case has taken several dodgy turns along the way, the main one being that eviction a few years ago with the security firm from the north...

    But, to me - the core of this is a lad borrowed money, and failed to make a reasonable effect to pay it back...

    The link below suggests no repayments have been made since 2014 (it’s an old link, but I would imagine he hasn’t stated repaying since any reposition orders have started flying about)

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30956522.html

    I know we can’t know all the details, but from what I have read, this guy made no attempt to pay back what he borrowed...

    I have read of other genuine cases of people who have borrowed, and then fell on bad luck, and the banks were still trying to squeeze - but they were trying their utmost to get out of debt...
    I don’t get that impression from this case, at all...


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    #13
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    Fair point like I said I don't know all the facts of the case only bits I read online or saw on the news. It seems like a very strange case and they are not making it easy for the bank either. It might be hard for the bank to sell the farm now.


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    #14
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,634 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    djmc wrote: »
    It might be hard for the bank to sell the farm now.

    People always come out with that line. Always a bunch lined up to buy if the land any use.

    These got a loan that they never even attempted to repay. From memory that loan has now been sold off by KBC to a vulture.
    They owe the revenue a fortune.
    They owe a local quarry.
    They owe another bank.
    They owe other local businesses.

    This ****e of complaining that nordies came down to remove them.
    Southern companies can't. The security firm employees get their photos put all over Facebook. So they are refusing the work. Don't be surprised if next security company is french or spanish or elsewhere, no one be dumb enough to bring english over.

    Next point. About a deal being made. They've refuse to make a single repayment. They promised a judge they'd vacate. Hard to deal with a party as trustworthy as that.

    Lastly. Leave them on the land till they pass. I suppose that sounds like a nice way to do it. Now, put yourself in the office of a main bank. Jimmy the farmer wants a loan. But now the security on the loan is as useful to the bank as an ashtray on a motorbike.

    Eh jog on Jimmy. OR yeah no bother Jimmy, 10% interest for our risk.


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    #15
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    Just saying I wouldnt buy it I could do without that hassle. I suppose if some lad was thick skinned enough it would be no bother to them. How did they get on with their neighbour's I wonder


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    #16
    tractorporn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    K.G. wrote: »
    As someone who has a fairly hefty mortage and so far has managed to make the payments i dont support this carry on.all the hops that you now have to jump through when taking out a loan are directly coming from this kind of lark.we are all paying extra for loans because of this and ireland has.one of the.lowest repocession rates in europe which results in less competition in the market.so the next time you are maling your repayment think how much sooner or less you would have to pay if there was none of this stuff.this is not like the famine those people had nothing whereas alot of these cases had assets already and made poor decisions

    I dont get why there is such sympathy for the likes of these. They took out a loan and by all reports made almost zero attempt to pay it back.

    Its because of wankrs like these that I was refused by the banks to use my land as collateral for my mortgage application as it was considered to much of a risk.


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    #17
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,532 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Hard to make confident comments because were all just working off rumours.

    Most folks to say there was little or no effort to repay the loan, IF that’s the case then I’d have no sympathy and the law needs to be applied.

    If it’s a case that they fell on hard luck amd tried to work with the bank but the bank took a hard line, I think it’s bad form.

    Seems though everyone has the first story and these folk just didn’t bother.


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    #18
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    People always come out with that line. Always a bunch lined up to buy if the land any use.

    These got a loan that they never even attempted to repay. From memory that loan has now been sold off by KBC to a vulture.
    They owe the revenue a fortune.
    They owe a local quarry.
    They owe another bank.
    They owe other local businesses.

    This ****e of complaining that nordies came down to remove them.
    Southern companies can't. The security firm employees get their photos put all over Facebook. So they are refusing the work. Don't be surprised if next security company is french or spanish or elsewhere, no one be dumb enough to bring english over.

    Next point. About a deal being made. They've refuse to make a single repayment. They promised a judge they'd vacate. Hard to deal with a party as trustworthy as that.

    Lastly. Leave them on the land till they pass. I suppose that sounds like a nice way to do it. Now, put yourself in the office of a main bank. Jimmy the farmer wants a loan. But now the security on the loan is as useful to the bank as an ashtray on a motorbike.

    Eh jog on Jimmy. OR yeah no bother Jimmy, 10% interest for our risk.

    The farm that made the six one news in Cork is back been run by the family again, it's a pisstake to be honest, but like you said above that's the reason why interest rates to the agri sector in Ireland are crazy high


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    #19
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    A question for those who have sympathy for these chancers- are you happy paying an extra 1% interest on your mortgage because of the actions of these people and others like them?

    I’m not.


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    #20
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    The farm that made the six one news in Cork is back been run by the family again, it's a pisstake to be honest, but like you said above that's the reason why interest rates to the agri sector in Ireland are crazy high
    Really,what about all the people that were owed money locally


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    #21
    Tonynewholland
    Registered Users Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    The farm that made the six one news in Cork is back been run by the family again, it's a pisstake to be honest, but like you said above that's the reason why interest rates to the agri sector in Ireland are crazy high

    Is that’s the farm with the large rotary south of the city ?
    It’s been bought by a different farmer with the purpose of milking cows there.


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    #22
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,108 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    A question for those who have sympathy for these chancers- are you happy paying an extra 1% interest on your mortgage because of the actions of these people and others like them?

    I’m not.

    Varadker said similar lately, he doesn't seem to be afraid to say anything since the election, good or bad, very different to Varadker the Taoiseach.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farmers-not-paying-back-debts-hurt-others-varakdar-39811337.html?fbclid=IwAR1V-Amkb-Gopvn_-n7QN9rHg7susTFoFbCCIejp8JWzBl5eeClAs9-R-oM


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