GEM funding for UL

Finitolight

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there are any other options for funding besides the BOI bank loan/ the access scholarship offered by UL?

I am from a socio-economically disadvantaged background (raised by a single mother) and have nobody in my family that can go as guarantor. I was told that my mother wouldn’t suffice because of her income well below their current threshold of 50k per annum.

I am ineligible for the UL scholarship because I didn’t access UL through an access route (which is their main way to assess status of socio-economic disadvantage). However, I never knew such access routes existed to begin with when I was first coming to college.

I’m a 4th year student in U.L. currently on a 3.67 (I expect to finish up with a 1st class honours in 2021) and I got a score of 60 for the September gamsat this year: so i’m confident that i’ll be offered a place.

It seems ridiculous to me that my dream could be destroyed just because of the income of my family. I’ve put so much hard work in and I just want to apply myself to GEM and be the best I can be, but it feels like the system is denying that. SUSI doesn’t offer grants as even though it’s graduate entry, it’s technically not ‘progression’. The same applies with the HEA free fees scheme.

I really bloody want this and i’ve been checking the web countless hours the past week to find any alternative funding options. Eu grants, other loan options, etc. I’m coming up dry though.

Any/all input is welcome on this, thanks lads.

Peek1

Hey, I feel your pain.

I have the done the exact same process as you have just outlined with seeking alternative funding options and pretty much come up with nothing decent, couldn't find anything with EU loans or other grants as most of them are either very small or work as a "graduate loan" where you pay back bit by bit after the loan is taken out, which, of course, is not at all manageable.

I don't want to sound bleak or put you in a bad mood but from what I have looked at, there is pretty much nothing else at the moment to help you fund this, which is very very depressing.

Really the only thing I can suggest, and this is if you are dead set on becoming a doctor, is to have a look at the IMAT which is the Italian equivalent of GAMSAT (the exam is in English, but for entry into Italian medical schools).
The medical courses are fully in English, they are 6 years and not 4 and they expect you to learn Italian in the first 2/3 years so you can then attend clinical classes, etc.
It's far from a perfect alternative but the cost to attend is A LOT cheaper, from my understanding, it is based on your family's economic background. To give a rough gist, if your family makes 80k+ and has a paid-off house, you'd pay the maximum fees of around ... 4k. I'm assuming you're not in that bracket and neither am I so generally you'd look at paying a maximum of 2k, with most paying even less.

The courses are all generally really well regarded, especially the ones more north of Italy but you finish with a fully recognized medical degree with an ability to work in Ireland or anywhere else in europe if you wish.

The IMAT is also generally a lot easier it seems and it is mostly done by school leavers, but it still seems to have older people take it so I wouldn't even think that's a problem.

Another thing is that the courses are not made for the universities (like 12 of them that offer med in English) to make a profit, they are all public universities and generally have no financial interest to pull you into this course with an easy entrance exam.

Sorry if I'm sounding like some kind of commercial trying to sell you on this but the only reason I'm aware of all this is that I went through the same ****ty panic realizing there might be no way to get into grad med.

There is also eastern Europe but they charge a bunch also and have heard not so great reviews.

Sorry it was a bit of an info vomit here but I really do understand the frustration, so I hope to know that there is an alternative albeit a lot longer and not in Ireland, gives a sense of hope.

Let me know if you need more info on this, but no worries if not as this is a massive commitment in time and change of living.

never_mind

Peek1 wrote: »

Hey, I feel your pain.

I have the done the exact same process as you have just outlined with seeking alternative funding options and pretty much come up with nothing decent, couldn't find anything with EU loans or other grants as most of them are either very small or work as a "graduate loan" where you pay back bit by bit after the loan is taken out, which, of course, is not at all manageable.

I don't want to sound bleak or put you in a bad mood but from what I have looked at, there is pretty much nothing else at the moment to help you fund this, which is very very depressing.

Really the only thing I can suggest, and this is if you are dead set on becoming a doctor, is to have a look at the IMAT which is the Italian equivalent of GAMSAT (the exam is in English, but for entry into Italian medical schools).
The medical courses are fully in English, they are 6 years and not 4 and they expect you to learn Italian in the first 2/3 years so you can then attend clinical classes, etc.
It's far from a perfect alternative but the cost to attend is A LOT cheaper, from my understanding, it is based on your family's economic background. To give a rough gist, if your family makes 80k+ and has a paid-off house, you'd pay the maximum fees of around ... 4k. I'm assuming you're not in that bracket and neither am I so generally you'd look at paying a maximum of 2k, with most paying even less.

The courses are all generally really well regarded, especially the ones more north of Italy but you finish with a fully recognized medical degree with an ability to work in Ireland or anywhere else in europe if you wish.

The IMAT is also generally a lot easier it seems and it is mostly done by school leavers, but it still seems to have older people take it so I wouldn't even think that's a problem.

Another thing is that the courses are not made for the universities (like 12 of them that offer med in English) to make a profit, they are all public universities and generally have no financial interest to pull you into this course with an easy entrance exam.

Sorry if I'm sounding like some kind of commercial trying to sell you on this but the only reason I'm aware of all this is that I went through the same ****ty panic realizing there might be no way to get into grad med.

There is also eastern Europe but they charge a bunch also and have heard not so great reviews.

Sorry it was a bit of an info vomit here but I really do understand the frustration, so I hope to know that there is an alternative albeit a lot longer and not in Ireland, gives a sense of hope.

Let me know if you need more info on this, but no worries if not as this is a massive commitment in time and change of living.

I know of some people who are doing UG medicine in Budapest - same situation and it’s dirt cheap compared.

GEM in Irish HEIs are cash cows. I don’t mean to sound bad but it just seems to be geared towards the weatherly elite whose kids didn’t get the points for medicine and end up getting bankrolled.

Peek1

never_mind wrote: »

I know of some people who are doing UG medicine in Budapest - same situation and it’s dirt cheap compared.

GEM in Irish HEIs are cash cows. I don’t mean to sound bad but it just seems to be geared towards the weatherly elite whose kids didn’t get the points for medicine and end up getting bankrolled.

Ooof ahahaha, that gave me a good laugh

But yeah you're totally right on Budapest also, the only reason I rave about Italy the most is purely that it seems like the best quality of alternative options.

Peek1

Oh !! Also!

Completely slipped my mind.

Have a look at Ulster University, I'm assuming you're an Irish national so it's a safe bet that the fees won't go up for you and will stay at a nice 4ish k pounds. It's a brand new GEM course starting 2021 September, because of this their application period closes March I think, you'd have to double-check it tho.

The thing with that is that you need to go through their interviews, write a personal statement and other stuff I think.

never_mind

Peek1 wrote: »

Oh !! Also!

Completely slipped my mind.

Have a look at Ulster University, I'm assuming you're an Irish national so it's a safe bet that the fees won't go up for you and will stay at a nice 4ish k pounds. It's a brand new GEM course starting 2021 September, because of this their application period closes March I think, you'd have to double-check it tho.

The thing with that is that you need to go through their interviews, write a personal statement and other stuff I think.

I heard about this! Very good option to consider and a great Uni.

I had considered GEM after doing many postgrads. **** that. Life of a junior doctor is ****ing horrendous.

Finitolight

Thanks for the feedback/input! I’ve emailed Ulster university actually and i’m just waiting for a reply.

I’m definitely starting to entertain studying abroad now, as has been said the options are ridiculously limited.

I wonder if I could intern in the republic if I study in the north though?

Peek1

Finitolight wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback/input! I’ve emailed Ulster university actually and i’m just waiting for a reply.

I’m definitely starting to entertain studying abroad now, as has been said the options are ridiculously limited.

I wonder if I could intern in the republic if I study in the north though?

From my understanding of how it all works, you will be able to sign up to get a position as a junior doc in Ireland as all the Irish grads, but considering how discriminatory the selection process is for med jobs after graduation (from what I know) you'll be put towards the end of the list to get a job as you didint finish medicine through the cao.

Which is pretty sad if true, pretty much means if youre at the top of your class, you're still behind Billy who just barely passed all his exams In an Irish uni.

Though, if you dont mind living in the UK, the nhs seems to be a better system to work for which you'll automatically be put to work in I assume.

This is all from my very vague understanding of it all, please correct me if I'm wrong.

cosmo6576

Hi Finitolight,

This feels like an injustice for sure. Someone who has overcome circumstances should be supported to the full. It's basic economics, speaking bluntly and generally, someone who comes from lesser means to become a doctor ensures they and they children will be less of a burden on the state, thus should be supported and championed not hindered.

I would recommend a crowdfunding campaign. I would also reach out to scholarship foundations such as Naughton, or to other philanthropic organisations who invest in Ireland.

Despite all your hard work, sadly you do have this final hurdle to overcome. Do not underestimate the benevolence of the Irish people though. There will be many people willing to support you.

Leave no stone unturned, email, call, write letters.

Best,

Cosmo

avalon68

Finitolight wrote: »

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there are any other options for funding besides the BOI bank loan/ the access scholarship offered by UL?

I am from a socio-economically disadvantaged background (raised by a single mother) and have nobody in my family that can go as guarantor. I was told that my mother wouldn’t suffice because of her income well below their current threshold of 50k per annum.

I am ineligible for the UL scholarship because I didn’t access UL through an access route (which is their main way to assess status of socio-economic disadvantage). However, I never knew such access routes existed to begin with when I was first coming to college.

I’m a 4th year student in U.L. currently on a 3.67 (I expect to finish up with a 1st class honours in 2021) and I got a score of 60 for the September gamsat this year: so i’m confident that i’ll be offered a place.

It seems ridiculous to me that my dream could be destroyed just because of the income of my family. I’ve put so much hard work in and I just want to apply myself to GEM and be the best I can be, but it feels like the system is denying that. SUSI doesn’t offer grants as even though it’s graduate entry, it’s technically not ‘progression’. The same applies with the HEA free fees scheme.

I really bloody want this and i’ve been checking the web countless hours the past week to find any alternative funding options. Eu grants, other loan options, etc. I’m coming up dry though.

Any/all input is welcome on this, thanks lads.

I was in the same position for the current cohort entry. Had a 64 on GAMSAT and didnt have a guarantor so wasnt able to get the loan. Its really ridiculous. Now in a UK university instead. Had been working in the UK before applying so was eligible for a loan as well.....one that has much lower repayments than the BOI loans and only needs to be payed when working. This is what needs to be done in Ireland. Literally turning away qualified applicants because they dont have wealthy parents.

Finitolight

Congratulations on such an awesome score and in finding a way to make it work in the UK. I'm hoping that I can get a place in Ulster university on their new program and avail of some scholarship and/or a more favourable loan.

Honestly, I would move anywhere in the world to make it work. It's a shame that the system is setup in such a manner as to drive people like myself away though!

23ismynumber

never_mind wrote: »

GEM in Irish HEIs are cash cows. I don’t mean to sound bad but it just seems to be geared towards the weatherly elite whose kids didn’t get the points for medicine and end up getting bankrolled.

GEMS is literally full of rich kids who didn't get the points or changed their minds that they want to be doctors.

ma003

23ismynumber wrote: »

GEMS is literally full of rich kids who didn't get the points or changed their minds that they want to be doctors.

Lol just because some peoples parents can just about manage to be guarantors doesn't mean everyone is rich. Lots of people are making a lot of sacrifices to be there and yeh it sucks that theres an income limit for the loan but the loans shouldn't be from the bank.. they should be gov ones without ridiculous amounts of interest but nothing will change unless people protest it and question why most second degrees are 8k but grad med is 15k to 17k

ma003

Finitolight wrote: »

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there are any other options for funding besides the BOI bank loan/ the access scholarship offered by UL?

I am from a socio-economically disadvantaged background (raised by a single mother) and have nobody in my family that can go as guarantor. I was told that my mother wouldn’t suffice because of her income well below their current threshold of 50k per annum.

I am ineligible for the UL scholarship because I didn’t access UL through an access route (which is their main way to assess status of socio-economic disadvantage). However, I never knew such access routes existed to begin with when I was first coming to college.

I’m a 4th year student in U.L. currently on a 3.67 (I expect to finish up with a 1st class honours in 2021) and I got a score of 60 for the September gamsat this year: so i’m confident that i’ll be offered a place.

It seems ridiculous to me that my dream could be destroyed just because of the income of my family. I’ve put so much hard work in and I just want to apply myself to GEM and be the best I can be, but it feels like the system is denying that. SUSI doesn’t offer grants as even though it’s graduate entry, it’s technically not ‘progression’. The same applies with the HEA free fees scheme.

I really bloody want this and i’ve been checking the web countless hours the past week to find any alternative funding options. Eu grants, other loan options, etc. I’m coming up dry though.

Any/all input is welcome on this, thanks lads.

This might not be very helpful but its worth a shot. A friend of mine was denied the loan but was told she may qualify in 2nd year as then she would be borrowing less overall 45k vs 60k so they may consider a guarantor with a lower income. They didn't give her a direct answer so its a bit crap but it might be something to try get a clear answer over. She worked in pharma for a year so can pay the first year fees with money saved but obviously still a stress not knowing about the other years. Might be an option if you could get a clear answer.

Peek1

ma003 wrote: »

This might not be very helpful but its worth a shot. A friend of mine was denied the loan but was told she may qualify in 2nd year as then she would be borrowing less overall 45k vs 60k so they may consider a guarantor with a lower income. They didn't give her a direct answer so its a bit crap but it might be something to try get a clear answer over. She worked in pharma for a year so can pay the first year fees with money saved but obviously still a stress not knowing about the other years. Might be an option if you could get a clear answer.

Is your friend planning on doing that?
This what I was asking two different people from BOI about and could never get a clear answer for it, being super vague about it.
If you'd know any more info on that from your friend it would be very appreciated

ma003

Peek1 wrote: »

Is your friend planning on doing that?
This what I was asking two different people from BOI about and could never get a clear answer for it, being super vague about it.
If you'd know any more info on that from your friend it would be very appreciated

To be honest I don't have a lot more info, shes taking the risk as she has enough saved for this years fees though it was meant to be for living expenses but couldn't get a clear answer from BOI. It was the guy who deals with the GEMS loans applications that suggested the idea to her but apparently he doesn't approve the loans, its boi office that does. So he just said she'd have to reapply for the loan fresh for 2nd year and hope for the best. Really ****ty response tbh so she's obvs quite stressed about it cos she'll have to see if she can take a leave of absence and work for another year or two if not. Its a ridiculous system tbh, I heard students in ucd were refusing to pay their fees this year as they are getting ridiculously high that the loan doesn't even cover them anymore but I think it will take some sort of joint effort to do something about them!

avalon68

ma003 wrote: »

This might not be very helpful but its worth a shot. A friend of mine was denied the loan but was told she may qualify in 2nd year as then she would be borrowing less overall 45k vs 60k so they may consider a guarantor with a lower income. They didn't give her a direct answer so its a bit crap but it might be something to try get a clear answer over. She worked in pharma for a year so can pay the first year fees with money saved but obviously still a stress not knowing about the other years. Might be an option if you could get a clear answer.

Its sad to see people forced into this - its risky because if she cant get the loan next year then its 15k + living expenses down the toilet and a year of salary lost. The UK system is much fairer overall in terms of loans - british students can get maintenance loans and tuition fees if on graduate courses, and maintenance loans if a grad on an UG program. Government needs to step up in Ireland.

Finitolight

As an update, I contacted all of my local TD’s and also Rose Conway Walsh, who brought it up in Dail (asking minister Harris during allotted time... c.f. question 77, May 20th, Thursday).

The question was basically dodged with very little in the way of acknowledging the current disparity.

Any other suggestions/input is greatly appreciated. Thank you to everyone who has responded thus far. I’m doing everything that I can to make this a reality.

si1234

I am in a similar situation, I took a few years out after my undergrad to make money and now I am faced with having to use this money to fund the first two years of fees. I spoke to the UL Bank manager last week and was given the same advice to wait and try apply for the fees loan in 3rd year so you are only applying for a possibly 30k loan vs the full 60k. My mother/father could then act as a Guarantor. It is funny though, as with my salary now, I could be my own Guarantor!! Surely going back for more education will only ensure I'm in a stronger earning position post college...

I entered my undergrad through DARE, which means I can't apply for the scholarship either.

Very stressed as to how I am going to be able to afford it... trying to stay positive without being delusional