Good articles on loss of biodiversity and pollution in Ireland

80sDiesel

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/trees-ireland-biodiversity-sitka-birds-extinction?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/28/weve-crossed-a-threshold-has-industrial-farming-contributed-to-irelands-water-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The Open Philanthropy Project pays the Guardian a lot of money, their name is right there beside the "Animals Farmed" series. The OPP has links to the Impossible meat crowd.

You may also wish to look up The Great Reset, featuring the World Economic Forum, before believing much in the Guardian or any other publication slanted against animal agriculture.

I've talked to one of the authors previously, and on another idea concerning animal agriculture "herd reduction" was a byproduct but seen as a positive.

In short, AGENDA.

djmc

80sDiesel wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/trees-ireland-biodiversity-sitka-birds-extinction?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/28/weve-crossed-a-threshold-has-industrial-farming-contributed-to-irelands-water-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Hard to disagree with much of what is written there but this is happening before dairy expansion. It will be hard for teagasc and farmers to backtrack now

rounders

djmc wrote: »

Hard to disagree with much of what is written there but this is happening before dairy expansion. It will be hard for teagasc and farmers to backtrack now

Completely agree.

Everything said in both articles confirms what I'm seeing on the ground

wrangler

djmc wrote: »

Hard to disagree with much of what is written there but this is happening before dairy expansion. It will be hard for teagasc and farmers to backtrack now

Is there not the same number of cattle in the country as 30 years ago

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Is there not the same number of cattle in the country as 30 years ago

I think so but they were more evenly dispersed throughout the country. 30 years ago my Uncle milked 16 cows, his neighbour on one side milked 22 and the one on the other side milked 12. They would have reared the calves to weanlings and they were then sold to fatten "up the country". Over the years the two neighbouring farms have been bought out by the same dairy farmer who now milks two to three hundred cross bred cows.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I think so but they were more evenly dispersed throughout the country. My Uncle milked 16 cows, his neighbour on one side milked 22 and the one on the other side milked 12. They would have reared the calves to weanlings and they were then sold to fatten "up the country". Over the years the two neighbouring farms have been bought out by the same dairy farmer who now milks two to three hundred cross bred cows.

There must be alot of land forested and even abandoned since so and the stock more concentrated in some areas, I wonder does the rivers in those areas reflect that.
Our teagasc advisor is gone to an enviromental section and came back for a discussion group. he warned us about the amount of Dock spray in the local waterways

_Brian

Base price wrote: »

I think so but they were more evenly dispersed throughout the country. My Uncle milked 16 cows, his neighbour on one side milked 22 and the one on the other side milked 12. They would have reared the calves to weanlings and they were then sold to fatten "up the country". Over the years the two neighbouring farms have been bought out by the same dairy farmer who now milks two to three hundred cross bred cows.

In the last 30 years we also moved from an industry primarily bedding cattle on straw with fym to spread which adds significantly to soil biodiversity. Now fym is a rarity and slurry is not near as kind to soil life and if anything it’s degrading it significantly.

I wonder in those 30 years how does the pesticides usage compare ?

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

There must be alot of land forested and even abandoned since so and the stock more concentrated in some areas, I wonder does the rivers in those areas reflect that.
Our teagasc advisor is gone to an enviromental section and came back for a discussion group. he warned us about the amount of Dock spray in the local waterways

MCPA, the herbicide used for killing/controlling rushes has been found on increasing levels in drinking water supplies.

Base price

_Brian wrote: »

In the last 30 years we also moved from an industry primarily bedding cattle on straw with fym to spread which adds significantly to soil biodiversity. Now fym is a rarity and slurry is not near as kind to soil life and if anything it’s degrading it significantly.

I wonder in those 30 years how does the pesticides usage compare ?

I'm just trying to remember back 30 years and what pesticides we were using. Some of them are gone and off the top of my head - paraquat, DDT, the original pour-on's and sheep dips containing organophosphates and the anabolic hormone implants.

I don't remember dosing cattle as often as we appear to do nowdays although we dose as little as possible now compared to four or five years ago.

You are right about fym and yet we read that there is a push to encourage tillage farmers to plough in straw rather than bale and sell it.

_Brian

Base price wrote: »

I'm just trying to remember back 30 years and what pesticides we were using. Some of them are gone and off the top of my head - paraquat, DDT, the original pour-on's and sheep dips containing organophosphates and the anabolic hormone implants.

I don't remember dosing cattle as often as we appear to do nowdays although we dose as little as possible now compared to four or five years ago.

You are right about fym and yet we read that there is a push to encourage tillage farmers to plough in straw rather than bale and sell it.

I remember a few of those all right. Maybe it’s just different rather than more.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I'm just trying to remember back 30 years and what pesticides we were using. Some of them are gone and off the top of my head - paraquat, DDT, the original pour-on's and sheep dips containing organophosphates and the anabolic hormone implants.

I don't remember dosing cattle as often as we appear to do nowdays although we dose as little as possible now compared to four or five years ago.

You are right about fym and yet we read that there is a push to encourage tillage farmers to plough in straw rather than bale and sell it.

In the 80s we'd dose the bucket fed calves every month and then none after their fist winter. I remember using teh worm bolus that was slow release and lasted four months, then when they got out as yearlings they nearly died of worms where they had no resistance built up as calves, you couldn't make it up

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

In the 80s we'd dose the bucket fed calves every month and then none after their fist winter. I remember using teh worm bolus that was slow release and lasted four months, then when they got out as yearlings they nearly died of worms where they had no resistance built up as calves, you couldn't make it up

I don't remember the worm boluses.

148multi

wrangler wrote: »

In the 80s we'd dose the bucket fed calves every month and then none after their fist winter. I remember using teh worm bolus that was slow release and lasted four months, then when they got out as yearlings they nearly died of worms where they had no resistance built up as calves, you couldn't make it up

Bought a bull of a friend, he kept getting pneumonia. After 6 months vet sent me back my friend to ask if the bolus was used, had to put him on a hook and it was hard to get him out of withdrawal without getting sick again. Because my man kept giving the bolus my vet reckoned he was one of these animals that would never have resistance to hoose.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Open Philanthropy Project pays the Guardian a lot of money, their name is right there beside the "Animals Farmed" series. The OPP has links to the Impossible meat crowd.

You may also wish to look up The Great Reset, featuring the World Economic Forum, before believing much in the Guardian or any other publication slanted against animal agriculture.

I've talked to one of the authors previously, and on another idea concerning animal agriculture "herd reduction" was a byproduct but seen as a positive.

In short, AGENDA.

Much loved by some of the more extreme individuals. I wouldn't wipe my arse with it tbh

Ps. That said - I'm fully supportive of increasing onfarm biodiversity and encouraging wildlife.

Base price

At the time when the SFP was introduced I always thought that we (Rep of Ireland) missed an opportunity in the 90's and we should have gone organic (dairy, beef and sheep) as a Nation.
I remember hearing radio talks from Germans/Dutch commentators talking about it at the time.

Stihl waters

Farmers should farm what they have, I see it around me every year lads draining and clearing ground not fit for the snipe, putting up sheds for cattle that are filled 8 months of the year, spreading slurry on land brimming with water, spreading manure bags to the acre trying to make more grass in an ever decreasing window of production every year due to wetter summers and too much stock, lads farming 40 cattle on ground fit for half that, too much intensity is polluting our lands and being pushed by farm advis0ors and governing bodies, for all that's out of it you'd wonder why anyone bothers the way its gone

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Much loved by some of the more extreme individuals on boards. I wouldn't wipe my arse with it tbh

Ah I find the reading interesting, I just wouldn't hold views that agree with most of it. An American farmer said change in farming was slow, he reckoned it took on average 27 years to adopt a new proven idea. So, we have an issue of extremely slow reaction time, coupled with leeches making fortunes selling us/advising about products to "compete" in a race to the bottom. We don't do ourselves too many favours IMV.

Students in coming years will spend millions of hours doing papers on how those who should be one of the wealthiest in the community sent all their money to town.

Base price

Stihl waters wrote: »

Farmers should farm what they have, I see it around me every year lads draining and clearing ground not fit for the snipe, putting up sheds for cattle that are filled 8 months of the year, spreading slurry on land brimming with water, spreading manure bags to the acre trying to make more grass in an ever decreasing window of production every year due to wetter summers and too much stock, lads farming 40 cattle on ground fit for half that, too much intensity is polluting our lands and being pushed by farm advis0ors and governing bodies, for all that's out of it you'd wonder why anyone bothers the way its gone

Are you a farmer?

Stihl waters

Base price wrote: »

Are you a farmer?

Why do you ask?

Edit; I'm farming 35 acres of the finest freach and heather in north county clare and in a previous post here on boards have stated before I've the bog one side of me and the limestone the other side of me, I had intended last year in selling all my animals entirely and renting the ground but instead I sold the cows and just keep a few dry stock now, still you dont have to be a farmer to see the mistakes we as a farming community are making

Base price

Stihl waters wrote: »

Why do you ask?

Edit; I'm farming 35 acres of the finest freach and heather in north county clare and in a previous post here on boards have stated before I've the bog one side of me and the limestone the other side of me, I had intended last year in selling all my animals entirely and renting the ground but instead I sold the cows and just keep a few dry stock now, still you dont have to be a farmer to see the mistakes we as a farming community are making

Thanks for answering my question.

Stihl waters

Base price wrote: »

Thanks for answering my question.

You didn't answer mine

Base price

Stihl waters wrote: »

You didn't answer mine

Curiosity.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I don't remember the worm boluses.

Still around, there should be a warning on the box, my yearling got a bad check by the time I figure what was going on.

https://www.fanevalleystores.com/categories/animal-health/cattle-products/wormers/products/32812/Panacur-Continuous-Release-Cattle-Wormer-Bolus

djmc

wrangler wrote: »

Is there not the same number of cattle in the country as 30 years ago

There is but they are stocked at higher levels on less land area. A lot of upland farms that once milked cows are planted or stocked lower than they were. There is more slurry stored and larger volumes spread at a time eg. 30 years ago every farmer spread a bit of dung with a side spreader today its emptying tanks with an umbilical cord and pump one slurry season opens.
We have better storage and housing now and times have moved on but the ability to put out 100,000 gallons of slurry in a day might have something to do with the reduced levels of fish in the rivers over the last 30 years too.
Im not blaming the farmers for this but its where we are led and where we are
This was thought up in some offices in the EU or department and we have to follow the rules.