Engagement broken during pandemic

LegacyUser

Not sure what to say here, just wished to share my story and hope some people have some words of wisdom on how to deal with a broken heart during a confusing time.

Basically, my fiancée and I (relationship 4 and a half years) had been separated in different countries by the pandemic since the end of January. We had what I thought was an extremely solid and caring relationship and were very happily engaged at the start of the year.

I was based in her home country and she was working elsewhere in the region, we saw each other every month flying to see each other until the pandemic kicked off. This arrangement was for professional reasons and had been ongoing since mid-2019. Since February I couldn't enter the country she is in, and her work didn't allow her to leave to visit home as she wouldn't be able to return, and didn't want her to do quarantine. Sorry if that sounds complicated.

In essence, things were difficult but going ok until a couple of months ago. I did notice her getting more distant and being evasive on calls. She had previously admitted that there were a couple of men around her that suggested having a side-arrangement outside her relationship, basically, as*holes that were trying to undermine our relationship by any means necessary. She told them she had rebuffed them and I wasn't that bothered by it because she seemed to be handling it the right way. Although I was concious that at least one of these guys was around her a lot.

Anyway, we'd talk every couple of days and stay in contact by WhatsApp most days. I was had planned to visit her parents' home place for a public holiday about three months ago, and she was traveling domestically in the country she is in. I got wise to the fact that one of the guys trying to sleep with her was in the group on the trip. I stayed calm and said I'm not in the business of telling her what to do, but I'm not really happy with her going on a trip with someone who is happy to try to cause chaos in our relationship in difficult circumstances. She insisted it would be fine and that she had already told him where he stands.

For her part, she had said over the weeks she had been getting more and more depressed over the weeks and months and was finding the distance hard. The same was true of me. She had lost weight and was quite pale, and I ended up going to a doctor for antidepressants.

Two days before I was to go to her parents' homeplace, she called me lateish on a Saturday night. She tried to float an open relationship until the end of February next (when she could finally return home), and that if there was a girl I was close to I could be with her. Quite honestly, I was appalled. I told her that this was her crazy idea and that I know what a relationship means, and this wasn't it. She admitted that there were a few men trying to be with her and inviting her to things etc etc. I asked her straight out if she had already crossed the line with any of them; she said she hadn't. I then told her our relationship and engagement was now hanging by a thread and if she took another step in that direction there will be no marriage and I was happy to end things on the call.

We didn't talk for a couple of days and I canceled the trip to her parents. She rang me on Tuesday before she set out on the trip and said she was talking crazy and the pandemic and loneliness had gotten to her. It was actually a nice conversation and I felt ok after it.

She still went on her trip (with the jerk as part of the group) which I wasn't 100% happy with but I left it in her hands. We also agreed that we would do an online couples counseling session when she got back.

While she was on the trip (in a remote area it has to be said) I got sadder and sadder and quite frankly quite mad about the open relationship suggestion. It was only to suit her needs and I was feeling the same lonliness but wasn't letting anyone into our relationship to ruin it. The start of our relationship I had a talk to her about boundaries as there were a couple of instances where she was definitely indulging male attention more than is appropriate for most people's standards (giving her number to perfect strangers on the street for instance), she's a naturally flirty person but didn't at the time seem to know how to draw the line for guys. After those minor hiccups at the start she really seemed to have matured and doubts melted away.

We had the counseling session and it was quite positive, we thrashed it out and it was pretty calm even though there was a lot of difficult emotions. She said she wanted to be with me and wanted to meet my standards, and she had completely put the open relationship stuff to the side and acknowledged my hurt.

After the session, we had a call to ourselves for a couple of hours. I don't know what happened but it went all over the map (mostly on her end). One second she was talking about arrangements for our postponed wedding next year, the next she was saying she doesn't want to bring a child into the world the way it is at the moment. It was so confusing and ultimately at the end of the call she said she wanted to end the engagement. I was, and still am shellshocked by it all. There doesn't seem to be any way back and I told her that once the door is closed, it's likely closed forever. She agreed.

The last few weeks have been head-spinning and my life has been turned upside down. I quit my job and moved back to Ireland (I was pretty much only in her home country because of her). So my professional and personal life has been fairly shattered.

I'm going through waves of sadness, anger, feelings of betrayal, sometimes acceptance but it starts all over again - lack of sleep and tiredness is also coming into play.

We had such a great relationship before all this happened and we were really looking forward to the future. My family regarded her as a daughter and her parents regarded me as a son. Now everything has just disappeared in a matter of a couple of crazy weeks. She seems to have just flipped out and I'm still having trouble processing everything. She seems to have just given in to men trying to break our relationship and showed little to no fight to rescue it; even though I acknowledge she is depressed and lonely, and what little contact we have had since, she has said her heart is broken.

I literally don't know where to go in life now, I'm in my mid-30s and starting all over again. Sad and confused. At the moment I am in the resentment phase, and it's likely one of these men has already moved in and made things completely irretrievable. I feel like I've been pushed overboard and left to drown.

Apologies for the length of the post.

TheadoreT

I think its quite clear she was sleeping with one or a few of these guys while away. The very fact she suggested the open relationship and if you had someone to hook up with would suggest she was trying to unburden herself from some of the guilt she may have felt.

You seem to put a weird amount of blame on these other guys throughout your post, almost as if she was being cohersed into being with them as opposed to the reality, she chose to do it completely of her own volition. She was the one in the relationship, she's to blame.

The signs she didnt respect you was very evident from early in the relationship, giving her number to strangers on the street is how little she thought of you, think about that, it's not a "minor hicup", it's a major indicator of someone who isnt fully happy with you. I'm not sure how you even found that out but I'm guessing theres plenty more you dont know.

I just feel you may be so in love with this woman that you've been a bit blind to the fact you were far more into her than she was into you, and blind to poor behaviours. It's not fully clear but did you move to her home country to be with her and she then moved to another country to work? That's a bit odd but again indicates you were making far bigger commitments than she was.

Idle Passerby

There's a few elements to your take that are interesting You mention several times that these male friends of hers were trying to purposely ruin your relationship. It's a little naive to think of your partner as this passive force who has no say in who she has a flirty relationship with. Its very possible these guys had no clue she wasn't single.

Your girlfriend, in a counselling session said she wanted to meet your standards of monogamy, not her standards, yours. The indication being that monogamy is something she'l go along with to humour you.

I think your ideas of a good relationship differ quite a bit. If she's fundamentally after a looser situation it would have come out eventually. Better now than after your married.

TP_CM

I'd fully agree with what TheadoreT said. In terms of moving on, you really need to know that at some point in the future you will be happy with someone else and you will look back on this moment as a time you dodged a disastrous bullet. I don't know who you will end up with, but I would like to think she will be a lot better than this person.

I'm not sure if you're connected with her on any social media platforms or not at the moment, but from my experience, eventually deleting them as friends/contacts in as many ways as possible is the healthiest move. Not in an angry way, but just as part of the healing/growth process. You will just confuse the part of your brain which is in love if you don't.

I know you had a very nice picture in your brain. You don't need to do anything but believe that a new picture is possible in ways you probably can't imagine right now. Make sure and only miss the person she was, not the person you thought she was.

cloudatlas

" I know what a relationship means, and this wasn't it."

No, you know what a relationship means for you which is complete monogamy but there are different kinds of relationships and she told you what she wanted and you probably made her feel ashamed for even broaching the subject. Did you really hear her out or just go into jealous rages about these other guys?

No one person is really enough for another person, it's just not possible. People who are bad at monogamy don’t get better at it once they’re married. If anything, people who were good at monogamy tend to get worse at it the longer they’re married.

So look at it as a good thing you get to go and find what you want and she gets to find her ideal relationship. Sometimes that's the price you pay for honesty.

bitofabind

That's a lot of change and disruption OP, sorry for what you're going through. Prioritise being kind and gentle with yourself, taking care of your health, sleeping and eating right. It really can make a big difference to your mental health.

I know this sounds a little facetious, but this is short term pain for longer term gain. She wasn't able to commit to you and meet your needs. This was a ticking time bomb accelerated by the pandemic. I know it's probably easier right now to see these men as the core problem, but they're really not. Being in a relationship doesn't make you suddenly unattractive to others, but when you're committed to someone you have a natural boundary with these people. You don't sit around entertaining their interest in you, keeping them in your circle, flirting with them, letting them believe there's a chance. You shut things down and don't give them the option of continuing to try. It doesn't sound like this boundary ever existed for your ex. She was never fully "all in".

This is the hardest part, but you'll get through it, one day at a time. You'll grow from it and as you heal you'll begin to see the reality of what this was, not what you hoped it would be. Just keep swimming

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replies.

@cloudatlas

I don't wish to get into a tit for tat, but four and a half years into a relationship that's in an engagement, and in the middle of a pandemic is a hell of a time to decide that polyamory is a good thing to broach over the phone. And in fact, I always stayed calm during these conversations, so no, no jealous rages but thanks fot the presumption I suppose. I've done some thinking about it, and trying to float that and trying to put an intellectual veneer around sleeping around at a delicate point in a relationship amounts to cowardice and selfishness. It was a pretext to assuage guilt and ultimately the betrayal that was already underway.

I've never respected the polyamory crowd. It's dysfunction and chaos dressed up as a lifestyle option. If that's your bag, so be it, knock yourself out. I don't respect it and never will.

bucketybuck

As others have said, it is a bit misplaced to be focusing on these men who were supposedly trying to ruin your relationship.

Simple fact is that it always takes two to tango, and you already know that your ex was very much a flirt who encouraged male attention. Its not just bad luck that she found herself surrounded by men trying to sleep with her, far more likely that it was a situation she created and nourished through her own behaviours.

Maybe its not a nice thought to have but you are better to acknowledge it, and its better that this happened now rather than after you were married. Because it would have happened, have no doubt about it.

I get the sense from the OP that you have your boundaries and the self pride to stick to them. Hold to that, this is the hard part while you adjust to a new time in your life but don't let the long nights have you convincing yourself you were wrong, because you weren't.

cloudatlas

LostAndFrozen wrote: »

Thank you for the replies.

@cloudatlas

I don't wish to get into a tit for tat, but four and a half years into a relationship that's in an engagement, and in the middle of a pandemic is a hell of a time to decide that polyamory is a good thing to broach over the phone. And in fact, I always stayed calm during these conversations, so no, no jealous rages but thanks fot the presumption I suppose. I've done some thinking about it, and trying to float that and trying to put an intellectual veneer around sleeping around at a delicate point in a relationship amounts to cowardice and selfishness. It was a pretext to assuage guilt and ultimately the betrayal that was already underway.

I've never respected the polyamory crowd. It's dysfunction and chaos dressed up as a lifestyle option. If that's your bag, so be it, knock yourself out. I don't respect it and never will.

Sorry bud but you don't know what the difference between an open relationship and poly one so don't worry there won't be a tit for tat here because you don't have a bog like.

lawred2

cloudatlas wrote: »

" I know what a relationship means, and this wasn't it."

No, you know what a relationship means for you which is complete monogamy but there are different kinds of relationships and she told you what she wanted and you probably made her feel ashamed for even broaching the subject. Did you really hear her out or just go into jealous rages about these other guys?

No one person is really enough for another person, it's just not possible. People who are bad at monogamy don’t get better at it once they’re married. If anything, people who were good at monogamy tend to get worse at it the longer they’re married.

So look at it as a good thing you get to go and find what you want and she gets to find her ideal relationship. Sometimes that's the price you pay for honesty.

Look I've no real opinion on the OP either way but to wade in with "No one person is really enough for another person, it's just not possible" when there are countless relationships that prove the opposite isn't very helpful.

listermint

This had very little to do with covid and plenty to do with her value system.

Your are far better to have found this out now rather than if there was a marriage, a house or kids involved.


Be very thankful covid accelerated or exposed who she really is.

JasonStatham

>Mod Snip<

You did the right thing to come back. This woman sounds like a complete and utter tosser. You should tell yourself that every day until the day you eventually get over her. My advice to you, whenever you do get over it, court local women here. Less bloody cultural differences and no need for relocation.

cloudatlas

lawred2 wrote: »

Look I've no real opinion on the OP either way but to wade in with "No one person is really enough for another person, it's just not possible" when there are countless relationships that prove the opposite isn't very helpful.

But it's true no one person can perfectly fulfil the needs emotionally, physically of another person, to state otherwise is naive. Whether they remain monogamous or not is another matter, I just think the O.P. is being naive and painting his former partner as some how amoral. When there are probably loads couples who are apart at the moment during the pandemic who are lonely and exploring the possibility of temporarily opening up the relationship. The O.P wants me to cast a damning judgement on their former partner and I just refuse to do that quite simply, no. Also I don't really know what the question is that the O.P. is asking here.

qwerty13

If I ever hear that someone is a “naturally flirty person”, it just screams red flags to me. I know others have disagreed with my views on this forum before, but why flirt with people if you’re in a relationship? It’s not fair on you, not fair on the person who is being led on, all for an ego boost. If the object of her flirtation does know she’s in a relationship, she’s giving early messages that she’s open to cheating. Giving her number to strangers on the street is an even worse expression of that. It goes way beyond naiviety. It’s just bonkers.

It seems that she’s always hankered more male attention than you could give, culminating in the request for an open relationship. Well not more than you could give - more so that your attention was never enough for her, right from the start. I wouldn’t be too quick to blame the other guys she knows, of the strangers she gave her number to (im still aghast at that) - she chose to behave that way.

I know you’re hurting, and very sad. But I really think you’ve had a lucky escape. As someone else said, her behaviour was hardly likely to magically change after you got married. And if her need for male attention and coping with a temporary situation of the pandemic meant that she couldn’t handle it, how is she going to deal with real issues in her life, such as illness, bereavement or issues with children or money?

She has shown you her true colours. She didn’t have it in her to make it work with you in the face of not getting enough attention, and a temporary separation. Be thankful that you found this out before big grown up issues hit, after you were legally and financially tied to her.

Look after yourself, I know this must be incredibly tough on you.

Tork

As I read down through your post I couldn't help but roll my eyes. Your ex had an uncanny knack for finding men who wanted to get jiggy with her, didn't she? I'm sure even you know deep down that she was encouraging them from the very start. By the time you got to the bit where you mentioned her being "naturally flirty" and handing out her number to random strangers, there was nothing new to learn. She's a textbook attention seeker. The sort of woman who isn't going to settle down in a hurry because she revels in male attention. Maybe some day she'll change but you're not the person she will change for. I have a feeling that when time passes and you come to reflect on this relationship, you will start to see it and her in a different light.

Open the Pubs

cloudatlas wrote: »

Sorry bud but you don't know what the difference between an open relationship and poly one so don't worry there won't be a tit for tat here because you don't have a bog like.

This is such a stupid post to someone who's just broken up with their fiancée.

cloudatlas

Open the Pubs wrote: »

This is such a stupid post to someone who's just broken up with their fiancée.

I thought this was a relationship advice section not a tell people what you think they might want to hear or something that drips with racism or misogyny. :mad:

Such as the great little ditties we have so far what was it oh yes the 'stick to your own kind' advice or 'your fiancee was obviously an attention seeking whore' advice. You see to me those posts are stupid. Also your post is stupid as it ultimately adds nothing.

qwerty13

cloudatlas wrote: »

I thought this was a relationship advice section not a tell people what you think they might want to hear or something that drips with racism or misogyny. :mad:

Such as the great little ditties we have so far what was it oh yes the 'stick to your own kind' advice or 'your fiancee was obviously an attention seeking whore' advice. You see to me those posts are stupid. Also your post is stupid as it ultimately adds nothing.

No one said that she was a whore. But I, amongst others, have said that she was actively seeking male attention. I don’t think that’s really in question. Or misogynistic to point that out.

I didn’t comment myself regarding a couple being from different places, but it can (not always by any means) cause difficulties: which country to live in, who leaves their family and friends behind, who might sacrifice their career (if applicable), which cultures ideas or norms should be the ones followed, and what happens if a couple from different countries split up. Major headache with the last one, if one parent wants to bring up the kids in their country. Acknowledging all that doesn’t have to be xenophobic (I don’t think racist is the correct term). But like anything else where there is a disparity with two people contemplating a future together, it bears thinking about. And like anything that involves differences, it probably needs a bit of investment and effort in order to work out a compromise.

cloudatlas

qwerty13 wrote: »

No one said that she was a whore. But I, amongst others, have said that she was seeking male attention. I don’t think that’s really in question. Or misogynistic to point that out.

I didn’t comment myself regarding a couple being from different places, but it can (not always by any means) cause difficulties: which country to live in, who leaves their family and friends behind, who might sacrifice their career (if applicable), which cultures ideas or norms should be the ones followed, and what happens if a couple from different countries split up. Major headache with the last one, if one parent wants to bring up the kids in their country. Acknowledging all that doesn’t have to be xenophobic (I don’t think racist is the correct term). But like anything else where there is a disparity with two people contemplating a future together, it bears thinking about.

Okay right I'll edit that for you, there was a xenophobic comment thanks for the lecture on cultural differences and it was inferred that the partner intended to cheat and had the personality and behavioural patterns of someone who is amoral and had nefarious intentions from the get go. If you want to cheat on your partner you do it, you don't ask for an open relationship, asking for an open relationship suggests a certain level of trust and honesty, the opposite of deception. Right I'm out, let the circle of back slapping continue without me.

qwerty13

There was no lecture. Just observation.

In your opinion people who cheat just do it. In other news, people who have or want to cheat look for an excuse, or something to justify their behaviour. And some people can totally divorce sex from an emotional relationship, and want to have the freedom to do that.

Neither of us here know which angle the OP’s ex is coming from. I guess my point is that it almost doesn’t matter what her ‘reasoning’ was: she was acting as his future wife (and I do mean being an actress), knew what his views were on her various flirtatious behaviours, but behaved at odds with that from day 1, and it escalated to something else entirely with requesting licence to do so.

I think the simplest thing to say OP is that you and she had incompatible views of a life together. I hope you both find happiness in the kind of relationship that you each find works for you.

PS: I should have said to the PP that if both parties equally want an open relationship, well then off they pop. But suggesting it having had a history of being “naturally flirty”, despite the OP having stated his misgivings, and handing her number out to strangers. Well that doesn’t strike me as a sexually open relationship where both parties are open to it (which I would have thought was the essence of an open relationship). She requested it despite knowing how a far far lower level of sexual ‘openness’ made him feel. So she knew the outcome of that discussion. The request was therefore a selfish decision: hoping for absolution to actual or potential cheating. Or freedom to play the field.

Open the Pubs

cloudatlas wrote: »

I thought this was a relationship advice section not a tell people what you think they might want to hear or something that drips with racism or misogyny. :mad:

Such as the great little ditties we have so far what was it oh yes the 'stick to your own kind' advice or 'your fiancee was obviously an attention seeking whore' advice. You see to me those posts are stupid. Also your post is stupid as it ultimately adds nothing.

Wtf are you on about racism or misogyny, you are coming in here trolling the OP and other helpful posters, posting absurd nonsense.

JustAThought

I’m sorry to hear about your situation OP. It sounds like things have been going downhill and been difficult since June of 2019 - we are now nearly in January 2021 and by all accounts there is little chance of you both living and working in the same town/city by then or having proper access to each other by then. Maybe she has seen the hopelessness and impracticality of
your joint relationship and is not
prepared to put up with it for another year,
or two years.

You say its another country - are there language differences as well as the huge distances and obvious cultural/ value ones? I wouldn’t knowingly like to have to forego sex and
physical contact and day to day intimacy for a year and a half with the exception of a weekend
every month in year 4 and the same heading into year 5. Maybe it all got too much for her? Especially when there were other men interested, accessible and available close to her and not a prearranged pre flight away the following month. Thats not easy - on anyone - especially if you can see no way of it ending. In the absence of
hope or any chance of improvement she has removed herself from the situation. How were you going to live together after you got married? Surely the same restriction and seperate work issues would still be there. I wouldn’t like a part time absent marriage either - maybe she saw no future or hope in it or the whole situation.

Do you see hope if the restrictions are lifted? Or if there is a vaccine? Could you both live in the same city then? Maybe she has the more
pessimistic mind but is there not an inkling that she might be right about the logistics and long term physical and intimate lonliness of it? Even if you both had rings on your fingers and lived apart and alone. It sounds like a lonely and empty life and future for you both,
no matter how much you loved each other on paper. Or got on with each others families.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

Cloudatlas this isn't a discussion on monogomy and your views on it. When replying to a thread here there is a certain standard required and posters are asked to offer constructive advice to an OP. It is then up to the OP what advice to heed or ignore.

Please read the Charterbefore posting again.

Open The Pubs, you've made two posts in the thread and neither of them offered advice to the OP. You can disagree with the advice someone else has offered, but it must be done in the context of offering advice to the OP, as per the Charter.

Thanks

HS

Terrontress

My marriage broke down a few years ago due to the infidelity of my wife.

Initially I told myself that she was being taken advantage of, that there was this evil presence leading her astray, that he should leave her alone etc.

The fact was that I was not married to this guy, I was married to my wife. He had never met me, had no obligations to me. Not a nice guy to get involved with someone else's wife, but the world is full of people who are not very nice.

I can see that same mentality in your OP. My advice is to forget everyone else other than your fiancée and then her behaviour is much less forgivable.

LegacyUser

Terrontress wrote: »

My marriage broke down a few years ago due to the infidelity of my wife.

Initially I told myself that she was being taken advantage of, that there was this evil presence leading her astray, that he should leave her alone etc.

The fact was that I was not married to this guy, I was married to my wife. He had never met me, had no obligations to me. Not a nice guy to get involved with someone else's wife, but the world is full of people who are not very nice.

I can see that same mentality in your OP. My advice is to forget everyone else other than your fiancée and then her behaviour is much less forgivable.

This OP. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I like Terrontress had a long term relationship fall to pieces due to infidelity (witnessed by several of my family members) and for a long time afterwards I was in denial about it and her (despite being told very clearly by family what had happened and who with etc), I let myself be manipulated into believing she was right and my family were wrong. Even writing that down makes me feel dumb but that’s what love does to us, our judgement.

I deserved better and so do you, don’t let your past with her hold back your future, you really do deserve better than that.

leggo

This sucks OP, I'm sorry you're going through it. Have to agree with the person who said that, when the emotion wears and you're in a different position, I think you'll see this person a lot differently.

There's a type of person who sees infidelity as not that big of a deal...when they do it that is, they tend to have very different views when it's done to them! Their moral code bends to suit them doing whatever they want in any moment, you can't take their word seriously because while most decent people have a code and they act within that, these people do what they want then make up the logic later and try gaslight you about it. They refuse to accept that what they're doing is wrong and that it may make them a bad person, and to square this in their minds occasionally give weird mixed messages that only make sense in hindsight (so they can later be like "but I tried to warn you" if you catch them etc) or they'll try blame their behaviour on you. Anything to run away from being on the clock and accountable for their actions.

It seems like this is the kind of person you got caught up with, and like someone said you'll view them differently as these traits make them an absolute nightmare partner. You can probably see the warning signs clearly yourself now. They told you who they were and what they wanted when they brought up open relationships, kept these flirty guys in their lives, gave out their number etc. But you went into denial and fought it in favour of the image you had of them in your head, which is something many (if not most) people do at some stage with a partner. That's what you're grieving here OP: the person you imagined they were, not the person they actually were. And while that may break your brain a bit now while it's raw, it'll actually make it easier for you in the long run once you accept that.

The lessons here are:

Learn to trust your gut when it's telling you something is strange; listen to what a partner is telling you to see warning signs ahead of time instead of fighting it; if someone is telling you everything you want to hear but that flies in the face of everything they've said/done before this...don't just accept the win, consider they may not be being truthful; don't take her behaviour as a reflection of you, but be vigilant to avoid people like this in future.

This must be awful to go through now OP, but there are loads of lessons that will set you up well for the future once you get to the acceptance and recovery stage. And I think you will be fine once that happens. In the meantime, just be kind to yourself.

Jequ0n

You've had almost 1 and a half years of a real long distance relationship and haven't been able to see each other since February. Can you really blame her for struggling to keep your "relationship" alive? I don't want this to sound harsh but Whatsapp etc does not replace what you both sacrificed for professional reasons. Can you seriously say that you did not miss the same she did?

Maybe it's different for women but emotional isolation would be fine, not having sex is an entirely different story though.
I get that you're down now but think about what an absolutely mess your relationship had become. You can convince yourself that you were happy/ content but I'm finding that hard to believe.

I read the open relationship suggestion as a practical step how to overcome this draught period to have your relationship survive, had she just wanted to cheat she could have done that easily without adding drama to both of your lives.

Maybe she did cheat, maybe not, you will never know. The weight loss/ antidepressants thing tell you that there was something else going on than someone who just wanted to have a bit of side action.

TheadoreT

Jequ0n wrote: »

You've had almost 1 and a half years of a real long distance relationship and haven't been able to see each other since February. Can you really blame her for struggling to keep your "relationship" alive?

You can in the sense that he uprooted his entire life to go live in her home country only for her to then move away herself for work. That's one partner putting the relationship very much as a priority and the other prioritising work, so she is to blame for not keeping it alive. Not that she probably cared, she probably got a kick out of OP chasing her and then moving country and him still chasing her.

Jequ0n

TheadoreT wrote: »

You can in the sense that he uprooted his entire life to go live in her home country only for her to then move away herself for work. That's one partner putting the relationship very much as a priority and the other prioritising work, so she is to blame for not keeping it alive. Not that she probably cared, she probably got a kick out of OP chasing her and then moving country and him still chasing her.

Nobody here knows their reasons for relocating/ their work arrangements so it is pointless to speculate. Usually there is not just one "bad" partner who destroys the relationship, it's a combination of both parties. Worth considering before judging

LegacyUser

Jequ0n wrote: »

Nobody here knows their reasons for relocating/ their work arrangements so it is pointless to speculate. Usually there is not just one "bad" partner who destroys the relationship, it's a combination of both parties. Worth considering before judging

It was a secondment from her job to the country she's in. I won't go into her occupation but she had very little leeway to refuse it. And we both made to make it work as we were only a couple of hours flight apart and we're seeing each other every month (sometimes twice a month) before the pandemic.

I'd put it to you that you're being speculative. I'm fully aware that WhatsApp isn't a substitute for seeing a partner.

Let me know how you take it when a partner / wife / husband floats sleeping with other people. Didn't think it would come to my door but here we are. Call me naive but I don't blame myself for her doing what she did. We all have choices in life and 99 times out of 100 a suggestion of an open engagement will likely kill off a relationship I'd argue.

Jequ0n

LostAndFrozen wrote: »

It was a secondment from her job to the country she's in. I won't go into her occupation but she had very little leeway to refuse it. And we both made to make it work as we were only a couple of hours flight apart and we're seeing each other every month (sometimes twice a month) before the pandemic.

I'd put it to you that you're being speculative. I'm fully aware that WhatsApp isn't a substitute for seeing a partner.

Let me know how you take it when a partner / wife / husband floats sleeping with other people. Didn't think it would come to my door but here we are. Call me naive but I don't blame myself for her doing what she did. We all have choices in life and 99 times out of 100 a suggestion of an open engagement will likely kill off a relationship I'd argue.

I tried it and can tell you that I do not have the skills required to trust a partner sufficiently to run this model, possibly because I have no morals but expect them of others. But that's not the point, is it?


Putting all the blame on her now might be what you need but it's barely ever this black and white.



I am not calling you naive and I don't think you did anything wrong. I think you might be a bit too focused on finding a reason for the breakdown of your relationship anywhere but at your own door step though.

LegacyUser

Jequ0n wrote: »

I tried it and can tell you that I do not have the skills required to trust a partner sufficiently to run this model, possibly because I have no morals but expect them of others. But that's not the point, is it?


Putting all the blame on her now might be what you need but it's barely ever this black and white.



I am not calling you naive and I don't think you did anything wrong. I think you might be a bit too focused on finding a reason for the breakdown of your relationship anywhere but at your own door step though.

With respect. The above makes very little sense. And your point on your morals is lost on me.

Indfedility and allowing third parties into relationships kills off the vast majority of relationships. I don't and won't feel responsible for her going down that road.

Sometimes things are black and white. I don't think you've cracked any secret code about the nature of relationships. Trust is trust and when it's violated it's curtains.

suicide_circus

OP i know you're hurting bad and angry but you honestly got out jail free there by finding out her character before you married.

Jequ0n

LostAndFrozen wrote: »

With respect. The above makes very little sense. And your point on your morals is lost on me.

Indfedility and allowing third parties into relationships kills off the vast majority of relationships. I don't and won't feel responsible for her going down that road.

Sometimes things are black and white. I don't think you've cracked any secret code about the nature of relationships. Trust is trust and when it's violated it's curtains.

Then why are you posting here? To be confirmed that you were the innocent and wronged party?

No, sometimes things are only as black and white as you want them to be. You have a predefined set of rules that you can’t see past which is ok, but don’t complain if others disagree.

LegacyUser

Jequ0n wrote: »

Then why are you posting here? To be confirmed that you were the innocent and wronged party?

No, sometimes things are only as black and white as you want them to be. You have a predefined set of rules that you can’t see past which is ok, but don’t complain if others disagree.

A quick look through your posting history confirms you brag about gaslighting and almost every post is flaming someone or trolling. Get a life.

There have been posters that have gone through similar and they have provided useful perspectives. Your contributions about having no morals are pointless and designed to inflame. Go to another playpen.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

LostAndFrozen, you have posted seeking advice and that is what the posters are taking the time to offer. Whether you agree with their advice or not is a matter for you, but not everyone will agree with you and sometimes a different perspective will emerge. The same rules about being civil apply to you also.

What advice you are looking for here?

Thanks

HS

ManOfMystery

You've dodged a bullet OP, though it probably doesn't feel like it right now. Give yourself time and breathing space.

I spent 5yrs with a 'natural flirt'. I guess that's one of the things that drew me to her in the first place. She was in a job which involved a certain amount of PR at roadshows/etc and there were numerous instances of men coming on to her at these events. I don't blame them for that, but I certainly held her responsible for reciprocating and giving out her number on more than one occasion - this only came to light when she mistakenly answered the phone to one of the guys whilst I was beside her and then stuttered and stammered when I asked who it was. She always claimed they put her in an awkward position asking for her number and she found it difficult to refuse.

The truth is, it was attention seeking and she loved the ego boost. That's not something they tend to grow out of, in fact it can often get worse as they grow older, looks fade and these moments become fewer.

You'll move on and in time meet someone more mature who can treat your relationship with the same respect that you do.

Jequ0n

LostAndFrozen wrote: »

A quick look through your posting history confirms you brag about gaslighting and almost every post is flaming someone or trolling. Get a life.

There have been posters that have gone through similar and they have provided useful perspectives. Your contributions about having no morals are pointless and designed to inflame. Go to another playpen.

So I’m a troll because I am offering you a different viewpoint to the one you have decided on? Ok then!
It’s interesting how you only value contributions that back up your opinion and refuse to even consider anything else. But hey, your choice.

Thespoofer

Breaking up is a horrible, horrible experience, especially if you are at the receiving end.

All I will say OP , from personal experience, that time does heal.

You wont see it now, ( shes the only one and all that) but you will.get.throught it.

I've been in your position , broken heart, couldn't function, depressed , could not see any light at the end of the tunnel but please believe me,
Time.will.heal.you.

Best of luck.