Extension Leads - Surge Protect with Circuit Breakers - Opinion

flashcash5

Hi All

I have a large amount of fairly expensive electrical devices in my house (consoles, tv, computer & AV equipment) and want to purchase a batch of new extension leads to plug into different areas.

Usually, i would just get surge protected leads to protect from a voltage spike in my house, and but now I see some surge protected leads with an apparent additional level of protection (against the electrical devices themselves it seems) which is advertised as a type of circuit breaker to protect against an overload with a button that can be reset, for example, this one here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mscien-Extension-Individually-Switched-Protection/dp/B07XT7TM9R/ref=psdc_1098227031_t2_B074J76B68

Some 'circuit breaker' leads are advertised as just that, and without surge protection, but the one in the link above (and some others) says it has surge protection and a circuit breaker in one, but how come you can't see that little light that you usually see on surge protected leads?

What's the inside scoop on these in general from ye folks in the know?!
Any cons with this type of lead?

Finally, if this isn't a safer level of protection than a regular surge protector, what type of leads should I be looking at for my new purchases, please?

Thanks in advance

meercat

http://www.garo.se/en/installation/din-rail-components/surge-protection/device-protection-320

Get a rec to fit a main surge protector to your distribution board and protect the whole house

Westernworld.

meercat wrote: »

http://www.garo.se/en/installation/din-rail-components/surge-protection/device-protection-320

Get a rec to fit a main surge protector to your distribution board and protect the whole house

Think u need both, you can get surges locally as well within the house

greasepalm

Depending on what protection you need,surge,clean power ,sat and cable protection as i have bought this for my tv.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monster-Green-Power-HDP-750G-Powercenter-surge-protector-lead/274568010842?hash=item3fed875c5a:g:z74AAOSwCDtfqTw2

Westernworld.

If manufacturers would stick to external power supplies as well that's a plus

I think they mostly do now for TVs and stuff

Lenar3556

It’s questionable how much of a benefit any of those devices are when it comes to sensitive electronics.
If it’s high value, I would be investing in an on-line double conversion UPS.

Westernworld.

Lenar3556 wrote: »

It’s questionable how much of a benefit any of those devices are when it comes to sensitive electronics.
If it’s high value, I would be investing in an on-line double conversion UPS.

Think you might be right

Doesn't belkin or some of them have a guarantee

Some info from safe electric on surge protection for anyone interested.

https://youtu.be/s_vJoxuPD6Y?t=148

Interesting that the hager units in the video are single conductor while the Garo above does L+N in the same unit.

Stoner

BrownFinger wrote: »

Some info from safe electric on surge protection for anyone interested.

https://youtu.be/s_vJoxuPD6Y?t=148

Interesting that the hager units in the video are single conductor while the Garo above does L+N in the same unit.

When this reoccurring question comes up the Hager units were usually offered as a solution, they are expensive, good to see another option here. I'd missed that publication

Stoner

Westernworld. wrote: »

Think you might be right

Doesn't belkin or some of them have a guarantee

Yes I've used the 10K euro Belkin units before I still have one. I doubt anyone has collected on them


If you want and like that type of 3unit the Belkin option is good as you can use it with any sized extension lead you want as it is one to one. So get it and a cheap 10 gang socket.


There's units are very basic though. in industrial units you are shifting N and L to maintain the required voltage, as the recommend UPS would do.

The cheaper inline units are more like a disposable fuse that you hope wiill activate and cut the supply in time before damage happens.

Westernworld.

If I recall from looking at the(domestic) 2 pole main devices before , I think they weren't required for TN

Presumably the external surges were diverted to ground on the N

flashcash5

Hi all,

thanks for all your replies.
So i might see if i can source one of those Garo PDMR 320 (or similar)
surge protectors for the board level.
If i had that garo unit at the board, are we saying that surge protector leads would then be redundant?
I know i could get an on-line double-conversion UPS, but i will skip on that for now (thanks anyway).

Also, back to the original question of these surge protector leads that also have 'circuit breakers' that i am thinking about buying- has anybody here come across these yet? does anyone have an opinion or any in-depth knowledge on them? How come on those 'circuit breaker' models online you can't see that little light that you usually see on surge protected leads?

Thanks again

Westernworld.

flashcash5 wrote: »

Hi all,

thanks for all your replies.
So i might see if i can source one of those Garo PDMR 320 (or similar)
surge protectors for the board level.
If i had that garo unit at the board, are we saying that surge protector leads would then be redundant?
I know i could get an on-line double-conversion UPS, but i will skip on that for now (thanks anyway).

Also, back to the original question of these surge protector leads that also have 'circuit breakers' that i am thinking about buying- has anybody here come across these yet? does anyone have an opinion or any in-depth knowledge on them? How come on those 'circuit breaker' models online you can't see that little light that you usually see on surge protected leads?

Thanks again

No the extension leads aren't redundant then

Lenar3556

flashcash5 wrote: »

Hi all,

thanks for all your replies.
So i might see if i can source one of those Garo PDMR 320 (or similar)
surge protectors for the board level.
If i had that garo unit at the board, are we saying that surge protector leads would then be redundant?
I know i could get an on-line double-conversion UPS, but i will skip on that for now (thanks anyway).

Also, back to the original question of these surge protector leads that also have 'circuit breakers' that i am thinking about buying- has anybody here come across these yet? does anyone have an opinion or any in-depth knowledge on them? How come on those 'circuit breaker' models online you can't see that little light that you usually see on surge protected leads?

Thanks again

The circuit breaker feature will do nothing for power quality or surge protection. It is purely to provide over current or over temperature protection. A function primarily provided by the fuse in the extension leads plug.

westom

flashcash5 wrote: »

So i might see if i can source one of those Garo PDMR 320 (or similar) surge protectors for the board level.
...
How come on those 'circuit breaker' models online you can't see that little light that you usually see on surge protected leads?

So much to discuss. For example, no circuit breaker protects an appliance. Circuit breakers only protect human life.

Circuit breakers take anywhere from tens of milliseconds to even a hour to trip. Surges that damage appliances are done in microseconds.

How does that millimeter gap in a breaker or fuse block what three kilometers of sky cannot? Consult numbers to discover completely different conclusions.

Surges that do damage can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How many joules does any plug-in protector claim to 'block' or 'absorb'? Always read specification numbers. Hundreds? Thousand? Near zero. Just enough above zero so that consumers, who can be ordered what to believe, will recommend it and buy it.

Lightning (only one type of surge) can be 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Maybe five of those 10,000 amp Garos are needed.

Furthermore their specs suggest (but are not specific on) what actually does all protection. That other item that harmlessly dissipates hundreds of thousands of joules. Earthing electrodes. To be effective, that Garo (or any other effective protector) must connect low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to a same earth ground that also provides effective protection for all other incoming wires. Single point earth ground. Those electrodes (not any protector) require most attention.

Its connecting hardwire must be low impedance (ie have no sharp bends or splices). So that hundreds of thousands of joules need not be inside hunting for earth ground destructively via any appliance. Or worse, destructively through minuscule joule plug-in protectors.

Appreciate what so many plug-in protectors really do. Many customer reviews (by Sarah Q, sandra R, Average Joe, etc) demonstrate what happens when a plug-in protector is not protected by a properly earthed 'whole house' protector: Amazon Customer comments .

IEEE Standard puts numbers to this. Properly earthed protection (on every incoming wire for AC, TV cable, OTA antenna, telephone, etc) means 99.5% to 99.9% protection. So 'whole house' protection (to protect every appliance) is not perfect. Then the IEEE says:

Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ... Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.

Appliance protection was always this simple. Protection only exists when a destructive transient is not anywhere inside.

How many appliances have been damaged today by surges generated inside the house? What was protecting a dishwasher, clock radios, furnace, LED & CFL bulbs, refrigerator, door bell, recharging electronics, vacuum cleaner, central air, RCDs, washing machine, and smoke detectors? If surges are generated inside, then how many of those were damaged today? None. Because those surges (invented by avoiding numbers) are maybe ten or twenty volts. Noise. Another myth promoted to the easily deceived to generate sales and increase profits.

Best protection at each appliance is already inside each appliance. What is most robust? 'Sensitive' electronics. Dirty power from a UPS can be harmful to motorized appliances and strip protectors. Since 'sensitive' electronics are so more robust, that same 'dirty UPS power is ideal.

If electronics are so 'sensitive', then why are electronics required to withstand even 1000 volt transients without damage? An international design standard that existed even long before an IBM PC. Again, so many are easily deceived by automatically believing subjective claims, wild speculations, and myths. Educated consumers always ignore every recommendation that does not also discuss specification numbers. Plenty here to learn and confirm.

No protector does protection. Not one. Effective protector is only a connecting device to what does all appliance protection. Connects to the only item that can harmlessly absorb hundreds of thousands of joules. Same device that Ben Franklin demonstrated over 250 years ago. A protector is only as effective as its low impedance connection to and quality of earth ground electrodes. Protection only exists when hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. When a surge is not anywhere inside.

Much to learn once so many advertising myths and sales gimmicks are disposed. In every case, protection has always been about where that microseconds transient harmlessly dissipates: single point earth ground.

monseiur

No wishing to hijack/derail this tread ...but can I ask - should TV Satellite Dishes be earthed ? If so what's the recommended way to do this ?
Thanks.

greasepalm

Are they not earthed securing to a wall,but the sat cables should have protection as they are copper and a good flow of current if hit by lightning.

monseiur

greasepalm wrote: »

Are they not earthed securing to a wall,but the sat cables should have protection as they are copper and a good flow of current if hit by lightning.

I guess an electrician could strip the satellite cable back to copper attach an earth cable and connect to lightning rod / earth rod ? It may affect reception, picture quality ??

westom

monseiur wrote: »

...but can I ask - should TV Satellite Dishes be earthed ? If so what's the recommended way to do this ?

OTA antennas and satellite dishes must have their own earth ground. That wire must also route low impedance (ie as short as practicable, no sharp bends, etc) to an earth ground electrode. Then the coax cable must route to the service entrance. So that it also can make a low impedance (ie in this case, less than 3 meter) connection to the building's single point earth ground.

A [Tech Note](https://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/TNCR002.pdf) demonstrates this. Notice both structure and antenna have their own earth grounds. To make both earth grounds better, a buried connection exists between those earth grounds.

Also notice all wires (even underground) are potential incoming surge paths. All must connect to earth ground before entering.

Protectors are only connecting devices to what does protection. Earth ground electrodes do the actual protection.

If that satellite dish or antenna is not earthed, then that surge will use a coax cable to hunt for earth ground destructively inside the structure.

Each layer of protection is never defined by a protector. Each protection layer is defined by the only item that does all protection - earth ground. Discussed above was a 'secondary' protection layer. The 'primary' protection layer also should be inspected.

cormie

Looking for similar here, but just wondering, how common are power surges and what exactly is the danger in the case of one? I'm looking for just a regular compact 4 gang 3m extension lead and was thinking this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extension-Individually-Mscien-Indicator-Protection/dp/B074JBZYQY/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=zuCWh&pf_rd_p=3d6f73e3-59a0-49fa-adae-5548adbb7b98&pf_rd_r=2NA3BDYKRS7D4GKB9BFB&pd_rd_r=ffed0e90-f4a9-4dfd-9352-fd8429d5c3c5&pd_rd_wg=JK1Mk&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d&th=1

Would that suffice for all but super rare scenarios I wonder?