Where to site a rad

Guys I'm replacing a single panel rad in the bedroom with a double panel. Current one is under a double glazed window.
Plumber suggested putting the new rad on an internal wall. I think he may disconnect the old rad. The pipes come down through the wall so bringing a pipe down the wall from the attic would be easier.

My gut says it's a bad idea and to put it under the window.
It's a cold wall on a corner room.

What do you think?

youtheman

I did up the bedrooms in my parents 1970's house (dry lining). The original radiators were under the windows, and I replaced them with vertical radiators on internals walls. If you put a radiator under the window then it will limit the length of curtain you can use. A vertical radiator will be abut 1/3 of the width of a traditional radiator, so if will have less impact on furniture etc. in a bedroom. If I was designing a house from new I would never install a radiator under a window.

Rads are put under windows to give a more even temperature in a room, it acts as a heat curtain to stop the cold air of the window having a more noticeable impact on the room temperature.

GreeBo

They are also put under windows as thats a dead wall furniture wise.
If you put your rad somewhere else then you now have 2 dead walls, 3 if in you include the doorway...does that leave you with enough space for the furniture you want in the room?

Vertical rads are not as efficient as horizontal radiators and as such will need to be bigger to give the same BTU, they are also installed higher and so don't heat the colder, lower air in the room as well as a horizontal one will.

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

They are also put under windows as thats a dead wall furniture wise.
If you put your rad somewhere else then you now have 2 dead walls, 3 if in you include the doorway...does that leave you with enough space for the furniture you want in the room?

Vertical rads are not as efficient as horizontal radiators and as such will need to be bigger to give the same BTU, they are also installed higher and so don't heat the colder, lower air in the room as well as a horizontal one will.

Thanks for the responses
. Furniture wise, the room isn't square do we were looking at just inside the door and to move a dresser down. He was in with me this morning so we'll look at it again on Friday. He's putting in a 1400 mm double rad. The option is there to leave the old rad under the window working band put the new one in somewhere else.

There be 11/12 rads on a 90000 btu system.

I'm also getting a doorway in the hall to segment the house and retain heat.

GreeBo

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Thanks for the responses
. Furniture wise, the room isn't square do we were looking at just inside the door and to move a dresser down. He was in with me this morning so we'll look at it again on Friday. He's putting in a 1400 mm double rad. The option is there to leave the old rad under the window working band put the new one in somewhere else.

There be 11/12 rads on a 90000 btu system.

I'm also getting a doorway in the hall to segment the house and retain heat.

I would just replace the existing with a double in the current location, unless you have a specific reason not to put a rad there.

gandroid

GreeBo wrote: »

Vertical rads are not as efficient as horizontal radiators and as such will need to be bigger to give the same BTU, they are also installed higher and so don't heat the colder, lower air in the room as well as a horizontal one will.

I'm just curious about this as I'm seriously considering a vertical radiator (electric) for a living room in order to save space.

Why are they not as efficient or effective?

GreeBo

gandroid wrote: »

I'm just curious about this as I'm seriously considering a vertical radiator (electric) for a living room in order to save space.

Why are they not as efficient or effective?

If you buy a 500BTU rad then its as efficient as any other 500 BTU rad, but a vertical 500 BTU rad will be bigger than a single panel horizontal 500 BTU rad (which in turn will be bigger than a double panel 500 BTU rad!)

So its as much about efficient use of space as heat efficiency.

Rads give off heat based on the amount of water they hold and their surface area. Vertical rads are (typically) just pipe, there are no fins to increase surface area, so the only way they give off the same amount of heat is by being bigger (so they can hold more water and have "equal" surface area)


Its the opposite of the old joke "which is heavier a pound of feathers or a pound of lead", lead is "heavier" than feathers ( not going to get into the whole density vs mass thing!)

Basically, for a given length x width, a double panel rad will give off more heat than a single or a vertical.



/edit
on your "save space" comment. They will save horizontal space, but will need to be much taller, so depending on what size horizontal rad you are replacing, you may need more than 1 to make up for the heat los..

gandroid

I'm none the clearer on the question I asked, but thanks.

I do know what BTU is. I was talking about an electrical heater so it would not have water. It will be the same surface area as a similar sized/strength horizontal one, just a different shape, that's all. Surely the heat from it will therefore be the same.

PS. Didn't mean to hijack the thread. My question related to electric rads so perhaps it was unrelated.

GreeBo

gandroid wrote: »

I,m none the clearer on the question I asked, but thanks.


I do know what BTU is.



It's an electrical heater so will not have water. It will be the same surface area as a similar sized/strength horizontal one, just a different shape, that's all. Surely the heat from it will therefore be the same.

It won't have the same surface area though, it can't unless its covered in fins like a horizontal rad would be?

Remember that surface area isnt just the length of the rad by the width...

The fact that its electric will change the comparison, but again, unless it has the same surface area, it will need to run much hotter to have the same BTU.

gandroid

GreeBo wrote: »

It won't have the same surface area though, it can't unless its covered in fins like a horizontal rad would be?

Remember that surface area isnt just the length of the rad by the width...

The fact that its electric will change the comparison, but again, unless it has the same surface area, it will need to run much hotter to have the same BTU.

Same style fins and surface as the horizontal version in the ones I'm looking at, just a different shape.

GreeBo

gandroid wrote: »

Same style fins and surface as the horizontal version in the ones I'm looking at, just a different shape.

Do you have a link to it, I'd be interested to see it?

gandroid

gandroid wrote: »

Same style fins and surface as the horizontal version in the ones I'm looking at, just a different shape.

https://www.smartelectrics.ie/lucht-radiators/

youtheman

I'm just curious about this as I'm seriously considering a vertical radiator (electric) for a living room in order to save space.

Why are they not as efficient or effective?

A radiator is a heat exchanger. The amount of heat it will transfer depends on 3 main factors:
1. the effective area of the radiator (i.e. by adding fins you are increasing the effective area)
2. the temperature difference between the water and the surrounding air (if you look at the spec sheet for a radiator it will quote so many BTUs for a given temperature difference). For example if you were to open a window and drop the temperature in a room then the BTUs for the radiator would go up. Conversely if the radiator temperature were to be the same as the air temp then no heat is transferred.
3. the heat transfer coefficient, This is a measure of how the air in contact with the radiator is heated, and moved along and replaced by colder air. Bit like cooling a spoon full of soup, you can cool it quicker by blowing on it slightly. Vertical radiators may have less of a heat transfer coefficient that traditional finned ones, but if you know the BTUs for your existing radiator for a given temp difference you can get a vertical one with the same BTUs for the same temp difference and it will do the same job.

If you get a fan driven radiator it has such a high heat transfer coefficient that they can reduce the size considerably. If you put one of those fancy decorative covers over your radiator then you will reduce the heat transfer coefficient considerably and the radiator efficiency will be reduced significantly.

GreeBo

gandroid wrote: »

https://www.smartelectrics.ie/lucht-radiators/

Cheers for the link, they certainly look well, but at 5 times the price for the same output, horizontal Stelrad I couldnt spend it

gandroid

GreeBo wrote: »

Cheers for the link, they certainly look well, but at 5 times the price for the same output, horizontal Stelrad I couldnt spend it

Do you have a link?

GreeBo

gandroid wrote: »

Do you have a link?

https://www.bestheating.ie/stelrad-compact-type-22-double-panel-convector-radiator-k2-600mm-x-900mm-37769

€115 with free delivery!

gandroid

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.bestheating.ie/stelrad-compact-type-22-double-panel-convector-radiator-k2-600mm-x-900mm-37769

€115 with free delivery!

But isn't that for a central heating / wet system? I am restricted to electric heating.