Buying a house

thecat777

Hi, we are in bit of difficult situation and I am looking for some advice/ opinions.

We are currently buying a house and as part of the process our solicitor discovered some issues. The house has an extension to the rare and the side of the house. This was done in 2005. The owner never got planning permission or any structural report at the time. He only provided us with an Architect report dated Aug 2020 and the report notes that a planning permission should have been obtained for the extension on the side of the house. It also states that from visual inspection everything else seems ok, structure etc.

However, we got our own Structural survey done and our report states that there is a significant structural alteration, the back wall of the house which is load bearing has been removed and presumably replaced with a steel frame but this needs to be verified and certified.

So we have 2 major issues;

Planning permission- as per our solicitor and structural engineer we would most possibly not have any issues getting Retention planning permission but this will cost money.

Our structural Engineer says permission and structural cert will cost around 5k plus VAT. We can ask the vendor to reduce the price and do this ourselves after we purchase the house. But i am really concerned about, what if the steel frame is not up to standards....has anybody been in a similar situation? Any advice?

I herd from somebody in the construction industry that back in 2005 it was up to the builder to comply with building regulations and a structural Engineer was not required to examine the structure, steal frame etc at the time of building. Do you know if this is true?

Do you know what happens if we discover that the steal frame is not suitable and needs to be replaced, can this be fixed, how much could this cost?

Any opinion would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Calahonda52

The steel beam is the least of your worries here, if it has been there for 15 years with no issues then it will be okay

The issue for the engineer is that his inspection will be invasive, ie he will need some of the plasterboard over the beam, especially at the ends, removed for inspection/
The vendor may not allow that as if you walk, who pays for the remedial work.

Likewise you will not get a mortgage unless the planning etc is squeaky.

Re the mythology from 2005, my experience has been that the builders knew the beam sizes required from previous jobs..

Gumbo

thecat777 wrote: »

Hi, we are in bit of difficult situation and I am looking for some advice/ opinions.

We are currently buying a house and as part of the process our solicitor discovered some issues. The house has an extension to the rare and the side of the house. This was done in 2005. The owner never got planning permission or any structural report at the time. He only provided us with an Architect report dated Aug 2020 and the report notes that a planning permission should have been obtained for the extension on the side of the house. It also states that from visual inspection everything else seems ok, structure etc.

However, we got our own Structural survey done and our report states that there is a significant structural alteration, the back wall of the house which is load bearing has been removed and presumably replaced with a steel frame but this needs to be verified and certified.

So we have 2 major issues;

Planning permission- as per our solicitor and structural engineer we would most possibly not have any issues getting Retention planning permission but this will cost money.

Our structural Engineer says permission and structural cert will cost around 5k plus VAT. We can ask the vendor to reduce the price and do this ourselves after we purchase the house. But i am really concerned about, what if the steel frame is not up to standards....has anybody been in a similar situation? Any advice?

I herd from somebody in the construction industry that back in 2005 it was up to the builder to comply with building regulations and a structural Engineer was not required to examine the structure, steal frame etc at the time of building. Do you know if this is true?

Do you know what happens if we discover that the steal frame is not suitable and needs to be replaced, can this be fixed, how much could this cost?

Any opinion would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

Why are you worried about a steel beam that’s been in place for 15 years?


2005 construction industry story you heard in the pub is incorrect.

€5k for a retention app for an extension is expensive.

thecat777

Thanks, ha ha pubs are closed....I heard this from a friend of mine who is in the construction industry but it is difficult for me to believe it.

The 5k was a quote for the permission and examining the steel frame. i got a quote for the permission only 3k, which makes me think that the invasive works around certifying the steel frame would be 2k. I would not pay such an expense before we own the house. My worry is about the risk we are taking if we buy the house as is, with no documentation.

And of course the issue we might have with the bank not lending the money, we are currently waiting for their response, my mortgage broker says they might not have problem if the extension was built over 7 years ago.

jt69er

In my experience it is up to to the vendor to obtain planning retention. Surely your solicitor will insist on this and also your bank.

looksee

You are mixing up planning and building regs a bit. I got retention for various bits of building on a house I sold (some of it predated me) and it didn't cost anything like even 3k, this was 2 years ago. I can't remember the exact amounts but the planning is less than 100 and the architect probably charged me around 1 to 1,500, and I think there were some council charges associated with the planning. Probably less than 2k in all.

Getting a survey for the steel beam for bank purposes is a different matter. As has been said, it could be invasive and messy.

Its up to the vendor to sort planning and certs. If they are not prepared to do that then let them sell it to someone else! Having said that I took on a more minor (possible) bit of planning on a house I bought, which I haven't done anything about yet. If I were to sell I would probably have to deal with it, but otherwise its not an issue, its only an immediate problem if there is bank involvement.

good vibes

Hi there,
I’m a first time buyer looking to buy a house in Dublin to the value of € 225,000- I’m a cash buyer.
Besides working with a solicitor paying property fees & employing a Quantity surveyor....what else do I need to know ?

Thanks in advance.

looksee

You do not need a quantity surveyor but you will probably need an engineer to do a survey of the house to make sure there are no significant structural issues. Be aware that the survey will be fairly superficial - the surveyor cannot tell you about things that are hidden behind walls or under floors. They can come to informed conclusions by a general survey though. Don't rely on the survey a bank may require, that will be very superficial. Edit - I see you are a cash buyer, that means you have to be especially careful as there is no-one else other than you keeping an eye on possible issues.

The engineer should be able to tell you whether there are unresolved planning issues - add ons that didn't get permission etc.

When you are house hunting have Ordnance Survey Geohive open http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html and see if you can see whether there are any waterways close by, mines or other things you aught to know about. Its not conclusive (architects and planners have a much more detailed version, but you can get an idea). Also Land Direct https://www.landdirect.ie/ (use proceed as guest) and look at boundaries and whether there are any rights of way or doubtful looking boundaries. Also the local planning office map to see what planning may have been applied for.

All this is a lot of work - though you get used to sifting through it fairly fast - but it can save you a lot of hassle and give you a good idea of what questions you should ask the estate agent/engineer.

good vibes

Excellent advice..thank you I appreciate the help.