"Set down" area

Don Juan II

I have a question about parking and "set down" areas on public roads.

We have a "set down" in front of our school - here are a couple of pics of it:
#1


#2


Every afternoon after school it becomes a car park where parents arrive early and park their cars and wait for their kids to come out of school.
The school has more than 400 pupils so in reality, this "car park" (a.k.a. set down area) can only accommodate 7 or 8 cars so pretty much every kid must negotiate these cars.

The problem it creates is when larger cars and suvs park here - if they reverse into the space, the rear overhang from the car really reduces the width on the footpath behind along by the green fence.

This is an example of what the "car park" looks like:


I assume the purpose of the space is for parents to pull in to the set down area parallel to the footpath, drop/collect kids and drive off.

So my question is: what governs the use of a setdown are on a public road?

setdown-a.jpg

setdown-a1.jpg

setdown-with lines-a.jpg

Giblet

So if a Set down area is to collect the kids, and they're young kids, is leaving the car to get them "parking". It's a sign on a road, parents aren't going to care as long as they can leave / get their kids. You'll find most cares will not "reverse" into those spaces, but park adjacent to the curb too.

magicbastarder

Don Juan II wrote: »

So my question is: what governs the use of a setdown are on a public road?

nothing, i suspect. i had a quick google and could find nothing in law about them.

The Continental Op

Even if was the death penalty for parking for more than a minute in a "Set down" area who is going to police it?

Don Juan II

Giblet wrote: »

So if a Set down area is to collect the kids, and they're young kids, is leaving the car to get them "parking". It's a sign on a road, parents aren't going to care as long as they can leave / get their kids. You'll find most cares will not "reverse" into those spaces, but park adjacent to the curb too.

The problem is everyone does park perpendicular and that creates the hazard. If parents parallel park, it would be fine

The Continental Op

Don Juan II wrote: »

The problem is everyone does park perpendicular and that creates the hazard. If parents parallel park, it would be fine

Well parking perpendicular looks sensible to me because you get more cars in the Set Down area? Also safer to pull out if they reverse in.

I can see where you are coming from but I just don't know how you could police it.

Best bet is to get on to the council about the cars parking over the pavement and creating a hazard and they might change the layout to make it different.

Nearest school to me has all sorts of stuff to try and make it safe. Cycle lanes with big high curbs. White lines down the middle of the road. Big bus bays and more but there isn't enough parking even during the day so cars are parked on the road opposite the white lines so just to drive down the road you have to cross the white lines. Now if someone wanted to they could probably ticket every car parked opposite the white lines but that would never happen.

A simple example of parking enforcement. In town by the church there are double yellow lines all around the place. During services cars still get abandoned all over the yellow lines. If you challenge the parking warden he'll say he can't do anything during church hour :rolleyes:

Del2005

Contact the community Garda and explain about the illegal parking. They might come down and issue some tickets which will stop it for a few weeks. If the community Garda won't do anything then there's nothing else you can do.

Atlantic Dawn

Stoppers like this needed...

con747

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Stoppers like this needed...

All grand until the claim happy discover them in the dark after a few pints:eek:

Atlantic Dawn

con747 wrote: »

All grand until the claim happy discover them in the dark after a few pints:eek:

In the US they are everywhere but yes here they would be a goldmine in personal injury claims. I suppose pedestrians on the footpath hitting in to cars overhanging should be additionally able to claim, some drivers are just idiots.

magicbastarder

Del2005 wrote: »

Contact the community Garda and explain about the illegal parking. They might come down and issue some tickets which will stop it for a few weeks. If the community Garda won't do anything then there's nothing else you can do.

I suspect if an area is marked for temporary parking of cars, the gardai won't be interested in using tickets given the probable grey area.

Don Juan II

So there are 2 problems:
1. The car over-hang blocking the footpath in photos above
2. The white line is a bike lane. See the orange arrows in this photo - this is a bike lane and this is also blocked by the cars parked in the set down area.

So when a car parks perpendicular, the car block the footpath and the bike lane.

It's really really poor design by the council in fairness.

bike-lane.jpg

KevRossi

The only solution is to block off the entire street to cars for an hour before and an hour after school. Encourage more kids to walk and cycle and make life as difficult as hell for those who insist on driving right up to the gate to pick their kids up.

Not sure where you are based but the 'School Streets' pilot in Malahide worked well. https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2020-03/20200302-300548-school-streets-pilot-review-1-issue-1.pdf

Del2005

magicbastarder wrote: »

I suspect if an area is marked for temporary parking of cars, the gardai won't be interested in using tickets given the probable grey area.

It's not a grey area if cars aren't parking correctly. The area outside the school is marked for parallel parking, the people are parking perpendicular.

Isambard

KevRossi wrote: »

The only solution is to block off the entire street to cars for an hour before and an hour after school. Encourage more kids to walk and cycle and make life as difficult as hell for those who insist on driving right up to the gate to pick their kids up.

Not sure where you are based but the 'School Streets' pilot in Malahide worked well. https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2020-03/20200302-300548-school-streets-pilot-review-1-issue-1.pdf

yes, the obvious solution is to persuade parents to park elsewhere and walk to the school to collect their kids.
I can recall from my own time picking my kids up at a rural school and everyone parked responsibly except one guy in a Range Rover who everyday would show up late and park outside the gate in the zigzags, endangering the kids.

magicbastarder

Del2005 wrote: »

It's not a grey area if cars aren't parking correctly. The area outside the school is marked for parallel parking, the people are parking perpendicular.

but the gardai don't enforce people parking in places clearly marked for other footpath/road users, let alone asking them to enforce parking enforcement where people are parked wrong in a place clearly marked for parking.

Seaswimmer

Don Juan II wrote: »

So there are 2 problems:
1. The car over-hang blocking the footpath in photos above
2. The white line is a bike lane. See the orange arrows in this photo - this is a bike lane and this is also blocked by the cars parked in the set down area.

So when a car parks perpendicular, the car block the footpath and the bike lane.

It's really really poor design by the council in fairness.

bike-lane.jpg

We had a similar situation in our kids school when they were young. The principal (who was young, keen, and enthusiastic) spent a few weeks standing out side the school morning and afternoon "encouraging" the parents to set down only. Then after a few more weeks he got the council to put in double yellow lines.. Murder and mayhem at the time but now 20 years later they have double yellow lines and bollards on the footpath so nobody even thinks of stopping there. There is adequate parking for many cars about 100m away so it is not really an issue any more. From the picture it may be easiest to just get rid of it assuming there is an alternative within walking idistance. Make it parallel parking for school bus/disabled space.

Del2005

magicbastarder wrote: »

but the gardai don't enforce people parking in places clearly marked for other footpath/road users, let alone asking them to enforce parking enforcement where people are parked wrong in a place clearly marked for parking.

Which is why we have problems outside nearly every school, church, shop etc in the country. That is why I told the OP to contact their community Garda and if they got no help off them then there was nothing to be done.

Akrasia

Seaswimmer wrote: »

We had a similar situation in our kids school when they were young. The principal (who was young, keen, and enthusiastic) spent a few weeks standing out side the school morning and afternoon "encouraging" the parents to set down only. Then after a few more weeks he got the council to put in double yellow lines.. Murder and mayhem at the time but now 20 years later they have double yellow lines and bollards on the footpath so nobody even thinks of stopping there. There is adequate parking for many cars about 100m away so it is not really an issue any more. From the picture it may be easiest to just get rid of it assuming there is an alternative within walking idistance. Make it parallel parking for school bus/disabled space.

Yep, this needs to be handled by the school principal. Shaming the irresponsible parents into acting responsibly is the only way it will change

Del2005

Akrasia wrote: »

Yep, this needs to be handled by the school principal. Shaming the irresponsible parents into acting responsibly is the only way it will change

School principles have no authority over the parking of cars on the road outside their school, it's the Gardaí or parking wardens job to enforce the parking regulations not a private citizen.

markpb

Del2005 wrote: »

School principles have no authority over the parking of cars on the road outside their school, it's the Gardaí or parking wardens job to enforce the parking regulations not a private citizen.

That depends on the school. In my childrens school, the parking spaces are owned by the school. The principle spent years pleading with parents to park properly, not to stop on the pedestrian crossings and not to be idiots. No one listened. Then Covid came along, parents needed more space to queue outside so the parking spaces are gone. Except for 3 idiots who insist on stopping in the road outside the school. The same three people every day.

Hilly Bill

Taxis do it all the time, they turn set down areas into taxi ranks. Mater hospital is a prime example.

Seaswimmer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Taxis do it all the time, they turn set down areas into taxi ranks. Mater hospital is a prime example.

And Vincents public..Hard to police though..

"My fare is just going in for a quick visit". ect ect