Degrees of choices

Hallelujah we have a chance to have normal discussions !!!!

Embrace it people.

I was listening to ‘Jon Richardson and the futurenauts’ podcast this week and Jon brought up a point a view that I thought was interesting.

He is vegan and, I think, from an environmental point of view. He said he hates waste. I get that. He said that when he is out with his daughter he’ll buy her whatever food she wants but if she doesn’t eat it all he will scoff it. So as a vegan he eats, for example, a cheese sandwich.

What do you guys think about that ?

I think it’s great and couldn’t care less. I don’t think the idea or ‘label’ of being a vegan or vegetarian should be a stick to beat every choice. I absolutely understand that choice and don’t see him as a hypocrite whatsoever.

Tar, for example and as an aside, thinks it’s makes sense to buy vegan products from companies that make money from selling animal products. I agree 100%. The idea being that we need to show them that it’s a worthwhile endeavour. Sell all the animal products you want but I’ll buy your vegan products. By showing that support you are giving them a reason to further invest in that market.

Like the McDonalds news. I’m not a fan of the company but of course I’ll try their vegan options and therefore encourage them to further support that side of the market. I even ultimately don’t care if it’s cooked on the same grill as a meat burger. Why should I ? It’s about being reasonable. If an animal hasn’t been harmed for my food then I don’t think I should fuss too much as to where it’s been prepared.

The market will follow the money. We have to be flexible. If the market sees vegan as the future then we have to be happy and more flexible to support it.

It’s time to stop putting people in boxes. Being ‘vegan’ 4-5 days a week is awesome and should be encouraged. It’s not a competition. We shouldn’t judge. Inclusive not exclusive.

This post is an effort to embrace all people that make vegan choices. There is little differences between vegan and vegetarian. Today’s vegetarian could be tomorrow’s vegan. Choosing to go vegan one day a week is awesome.

Just having the conversation and being aware that your choices make a difference is important.

We all love animals and we are ALL just currently on slightly different paths. Time and understanding will bring us all together.

So next time you hear someone say ‘ I’m eating less meat and dairy’ I suggest you positively encourage it and hopefully a one day a week vegan becomes a two day and week vegan and they, with time, become .........

Unearthly

I think when you look at what's happened in the last few years in terms of new products being available, that is mainly down to the 'flexitarians' not the people who would be considered vegan. Vegans i think still make up only a small % of the population, but people reducing on animal consumption is very high now.

Therefore when people consume less, it will eventually benefit everyone so fully agree everyone should be more encouraging and not finger pointing

In regards to food waste, I would more look at it from an animal point of view. Example when I was in work, a multinational, a few of the execs from America were over and the company got the catering company to put out a load of sandwiches for their meeting. Pretty much all of it leftover. All I could think of was that these animals had their lifes ended and ultimately it was for nothing as it just goes to waste. But the producers of the food got paid, the catering company got paid and the execs were happy they got 1 or 2 bites so it gets overlooked. I personally wouldn't eat it as my tastes have changed, but I definitely see the logic as in the person took no part in the demand for that product, as in the damage was already done so to speak

In regards to to purchasing from McDonald's etc, It's simple economics, buy their plant range proucts, they become more popular, they increase their range, possibly at the expense of the animal equalivent. Win win.

Funsterdelux

I suppose I'd be classed as a flexitarian.

Most of our meals would be vegan, as my youngest is allergic to dairy protein and we also made the choice nearly 2 years ago to cut out most meat (many reasons). We eat fish at least once a week, fresh from a local fishmonger. We get the odd takeaway and let the kids get what they want, Im usually the only one that gets the veggie burger, which is usually nicer than the cardboard beef burger.

I dont miss it at all. Get less indigestion and stomach issues.

I often repeat what my folks say when they tell me about meat when they were grewing up. They only had it once or twice a week at most, they were both farming families. Meat was a luxury and in my mind should still be. Its just too cheap.

Are some of the regular posters willing to share their reasons for going choosing to go vegan or vegetarian ?

It would be interesting to get an idea of what is encouraging people to make their choices.

Thelonious Monk

I love animals, factory farming is horrendous, and of course for environmental reasons. And because I realised I don't even like meat that much and it's quite easy to give up.

Unearthly

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are some of the regular posters willing to share their reasons for going choosing to go vegan or vegetarian ?

It would be interesting to get an idea of what is encouraging people to make their choices.

I went vegan about 3 years ago. Essentially it came down to the following things:

1) Do I find the practice of farming animals ethical
2) Do I need the products to live healthy life

Answer was No for both so I made the choice.

Tar.Aldarion

Deleted User wrote: »

Are some of the regular posters willing to share their reasons for going choosing to go vegan or vegetarian ?

It would be interesting to get an idea of what is encouraging people to make their choices.

I grew up on farms and worked in a dairy (so did my previous co-mod). I did not like that we killed the animals, who knew me their whole lives and trusted me. The cows were no different than big silly dogs that followed me around, when one saw me they would tell the others in the other fields and all would come running for a walks with me etc. I wouldn't hurt a dog, I wouldn't hurt them. That was the end of it for me, when I started cooking and buying food for myself.
That was about 17 years ago, nobody even knew what vegetarian meant back then haha, I'd never even heard of it really. I did it though. I pretty much hated all veg at the time too being a meat and potatoes person for every meal, it was years of learning to love them. Am the biggest foodie I know of now.
I became fully vegan when I learned of the mass killing of male chicks in the egg industry.

eviltwin

I'm vegetarian 30 years and went vegan about a year ago in September. Again its an animal welfare issue, I find the idea of killing an animal for its meat abhorrent to be honest. Its not something I can get my head around. Veganism was an obvious follow on from that and I feel amazing on it. Its done wonders for my health so its easy to maintain. My household is pretty much meat free at the moment apart from my husband and even he has cut down a lot.

Bigbooty

I went vegan after seeing how animals get treated in industrial agriculture. It was seeing what we do to pigs in the name of food that really pushed me to consider going vegan which I did overnight. Something clicked for me and I didn't want to eat animal products anymore.

It was actually my wife that introduced me to veganism through a podcast she was listening to. We watched land of hope and glory, then I watched earthlings and dominion which made me quite sad when I was confronted with the reality of my choices.

My health is better but I attribute that more to me being more conscious about what I Eat, lifestyle changes and from eliminating dairy. I'm pretty sure that dairy was making me ill due to an underlying intolerance. My headaches and brain fog have gone since not consuming it.(still going strong and thriving 1.5 years later. Waiting to die of various deficiencies )

Surprised at that.

That’s 5 for 5 so far that were mostly concerned with the treatment of animals and then I presume their slaughter.

I imagine having empathy for animals will always be the biggest reason people chose to go V or V.

Environmental seems to be influencing a lot of younger people.

So maybe health is more to the forefront as we get older.

Mad input from Tar. Didn’t know that at all. Nice to think you were so close to it all but able to walk away too.

Really looking forward to my next trip home for lots of reasons but none more than to talk with family and friends that are now very very interested in my choices.

I’m slightly disappointed they mostly seem to be coming from an environmental point of view. And I only say that because they are all animals lovers but haven’t yet joined those dots.

ElKavo

I wrote this piece to explain my thought process about going Vegan. That was 4 years ago so dates are pretty meaningless. We, my family of 5, have been vegan for coming on 6 years.

Almost two years ago I undertook a distance learning animal welfare course from Edinburgh University via Coursera. It was during this course that I discovered some of the industry's "best practice" for our food supply. I learned about how cows are monitored for diseases and conditions such as mastitis etc. How chickens get enriched cages, what free range actually means, pig welfare, as well as pet animals and zoo animal welfare to include stimulation etc. The course was delivered in such a way to be simply practical, nothing more, no emotion, it is not the courses function to do anything more than present information. Seeing some of these best practices I became uneasy about how we were treating animals in the food supply chain, all the while still not thinking about the ultimate fate that awaited every single creature that enters this supply chain. This was to be the first course of many, my plan was to work with dogs, to help with assistance dogs, or to rehabilitate reactive or aggressive dogs, to save them from being put down.

I started to discuss what I had seen with my better half Natasha, or as many of you will know her as "Mammybot". She was more than happy to help me to survive becoming vegetarian, she had managed some how to survive until then, so I figured it was a safe bet to take her advice! After I had decided to become vegetarian an old friend from school contacted me and asked what was my motivation. I explained that I had completed the course and I was uneasy about it. He mentioned to me that he was Vegan, I had never given much thought to this word, other than to think that all Vegans were tree hugging, dread having, weed smoking, layabouts with nothing better to do than protest roads being built etc, not that there is anything wrong with that, I just didn't see myself doing that. I work in IT, I am a manager, I am a "respectable" member of society, I drive a family car etc. We got talking about how crazy it was how we treat animals, again all the while I was thinking that, Dairy is fine, cows need to get milked, they probably like it, it must be relaxing for them. I never even thought about leather, feathers, gelatine etc, these are all just by-products of people eating meat so it would be a shame to let them go to waste! I was righteous in my thought process, all the time thinking what I was doing was the right thing to do. Plus we NEED to drink milk, them bones need it for calcium and to make you strong, nothing else has protein now that I have decided to cut out meat and eggs.

Paul (old school friend) had mentioned to have a look at earthlings on you tube, " it will change how you see the world" he said, he was not wrong.

I decided this was something that I should do alone as I did not want to be influenced by anyone else's thoughts. I mean, I was never going to be a Vegan! I could just about handle being one of them weirdo vegetarians. While watching this documentary I wanted to stop many times , I shed several tears, I lost my faith in humanity, how can we do these disgraceful things to these creatures? From mutilating days old piglets by castration, ear clipping, teeth clipping (yes teeth) tail docking all without anesthetic to experiments and testing beauty and cleaning products. Slaughtering animals for sport, bull fighting, dog fighting, hare coursing, fox hunting, big game hunting.

We humans really are a plague on this planet.There is so much more to it than even the things I have listed. As I became aware of these things, things that I knew, somewhere in the back of my mind, it was wrong all along, pushed deep down, because, we are the masters of this world and we have a right to it, why should anyone care about these little pigs? Why should they let us in? After all, we are the wolves at the door!

After witnessing all the sadness, torture, inhumanity and death I would no longer consume or use anything that came from an animal, was tested on an animal or in anyway supported animal cruelty, to the best of my ability I was going to stop my part of these disgusting practices. So, it looks like I had "drank the coolaid" I was now a Vegan. Did I get a membership card? where do I apply? when do I get my hemp sack and start growing my dreads? Surely there is some type of support group that can help me with the joint rolling and sign making! I mean, what type of club doesn't have these supports in place for new recruits!! But that was just the thing, there is no club, no cult, no secret handshake or symbol. I, We, were on our own! Again I went to Natasha and told her what I had witnessed, I explained that I could not be part of that machine any more.

What had I done to my kids, I had indoctrinated them into this system of death and destruction. Now it was time to break free from it. But how could I do that to my kids? Kids need milk! Kids need meat! All the while the answer was sitting across the table from me, with kind eyes, there she was, this beautiful creature who had made it through her childhood without things that were "vital" to survive. She is an amazing example of the female of our species, perfect in every way, kind, fair, fit, healthy and beautiful. If I can raise my children to be like her, to have compassion and to really care about the world and people and animals in it I would die a happy man. So now it was time to do some research, can I raise my kids Vegan? Thankfully there are a number of groups online with families raising their own children as Vegans. To be honest, they are probably some of the nicest people I have ever met, well virtually met. No question was ever ridiculed, I was never talked down.

I continued my education, next up was canine emotion and cognition from Duke University, again via coursera. During this course I learned about how dogs learn, what motivates them and what will get the best results in training etc. But this got me thinking, what about "food" animals, what about how their minds work? How smart are Pigs? Well it turns out they are quite smart, smarter, some would say, than your dog. So this brings me back to how we keep these animals. When dogs are kept in conditions where they are confined and have no stimuli they become destructive, restless, they exhibit compulsive behaviours such as pacing, wall running. If pigs are as smart as dogs and capable of the emotion that this intelligence affords them, keeping them in the prison like conditions is akin to torture. Not to mention the toll the housing takes on their bodies.

I have, since becoming Vegan been told I have "gone strange", become " A fag", I have been goaded by friends and colleagues alike. I have had people try to pick holes in my reasoning and logic, I am still waiting on a valid reason why I should return to the comfort of the carnist society. But here is the thing, I am not doing this for their approval, I am not doing this for your approval, I am doing this for the animals. Everything after that is just a bonus, health, environmental issues, all just icing on the delicious Vegan cake. Why not try a slice, the little pigs love it!

Hope you made it to the end, LOL.

Midlife crisis man

I was a big meat eater but I just took a notion to reduce my meat consumption and apart from eggs, I haven't had any meat in a couple of months (ovo-vegetarian?). I had been listening to some interesting things about the environmental impacts and all that so I guess that played a part.
I love meat and I absolutely couldn't care less that animals are slaughtered or ground up etc for our consumption but I'm happy knowing that I don't need to eat meat. I'm enjoying trying new recipes and new flavours and I don't think I will go back to eating meat.
I'm pleasantly surprised with the meat substitutes that are out there I.e. Denny sausages, klonakilty pudding and I've noticed more and more of a range being introduced in my local supermarkets.

That’s a great post to read ElKavo.

Fair play and your kids are lucky to have such thoughtful parents that don’t rely on the status quo for their information on food production.

They’ll grow up to be very healthy and also independent thinkers.

weisses

I was all over the shop for years Absolutely hated the imo cruelty to animals but still loving the meat... Managed to go vegetarian a good while back and around that time I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, read about going plant based could aid in fighting the diabetes. So I went vegan, kept an eye on my sugars and have cut my meds in half since going vegan, and are hoping to stop needing them altogether ... This is all done with support from my GP who was quite surprised by the outcome so far.

win win

ElKavo

weisses wrote: »

I was all over the shop for years Absolutely hated the imo cruelty to animals but still loving the meat... Managed to go vegetarian a good while back and around that time I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, read about going plant based could aid in fighting the diabetes. So I went vegan, kept an eye on my sugars and have cut my meds in half since going vegan, and are hoping to stop needing them altogether ... This is all done with support from my GP who was quite surprised by the outcome so far.

win win

Good for you! I had awful sinus issues for years, and I mean 20 odd years. When I cut dairy out I no longer have the issues. My MIL and a friend of mine both have colitis, they both tried a plant based diet for a while and their symptoms all but cleared up. When my mate went back to eating meat / dairy his colitis returned. My MIL keeps animal product consumption to a minimum, maybe once a month she'll have meat but pays the price for it.

I was completely blown away by these type of stories considering we've been told all our lives we need meat and dairy etc to be healthy.

Its also great to hear your GP is onboard, so many of the older GP's would think you are mad!

ElKavo

Deleted User wrote: »

That’s a great post to read ElKavo.

Fair play and your kids are lucky to have such thoughtful parents that don’t rely on the status quo for their information on food production.

They’ll grow up to be very healthy and also independent thinkers.

Its mad actually, they are all such compassionate kids, they often stand up for what they believe is right. We try to instil a belief system into them that they should speak up if they see something they know is wrong. They are consistently near the top or at the top of their respective groups in what they do, be that boxing, athletics, surfing etc. Very active kids (well not so much lately ..... cos covid) Academically speaking they are bright as anything, my middle chap has just gone into first year and is scoring 80%+ in his Christmas exams. My eldest, now 20, was big into kickboxing, MMA and athletics too and is also studying a bachelors of business. People that come out with the crap of vegans are emotionally weaker, less intelligent, unfit or unable to have the same stamina etc are just full of crap IMO.