Rent Paid In Cash

JimmyMW

Sorry for side tracking this thread a bit, i hear of so many landlords side stepping this and essentially not paying any tax on their rental income, by insisting on cash rent etc, how is it that they get away with this? surly there is some net of some description to catch these jokers out?

Carter D

JimmyMW wrote: »

Sorry for side tracking this thread a bit, i hear of so many landlords side stepping this and essentially not paying any tax on their rental income, by insisting on cash rent etc, how is it that they get away with this? surly there is some net of some description to catch these jokers out?

That's nothing new if they can get away with it they will. But a tenant could report them to RTB other tenants dont mind paying in cash as they are glad to have somewhere to stay and pay cheaper rent compared to other property.

Gumbo

JimmyMW wrote: »

Sorry for side tracking this thread a bit, i hear of so many landlords side stepping this and essentially not paying any tax on their rental income, by insisting on cash rent etc, how is it that they get away with this? surly there is some net of some description to catch these jokers out?

Just because you get paid in cash doesn’t mean you are avoiding tax.

JimmyMW

Carter D wrote: »

That's nothing new if they can get away with it they will. But a tenant could report them to RTB other tenants dont mind paying in cash as they are glad to have somewhere to stay and pay cheaper rent compared to other property.

Yes i get that, but as far as i can see for these guys to get caught it relies on someone reporting them? I was more asking if the likes of the revenue can check how many properties are registered to the same person, who is paying the electric bill etc to catch these guys out. If we are relying on the reporting from the ordinary joe soap for this kinda thing, as a country we are in big trouble IMHO

JimmyMW

Gumbo wrote: »

Just because you get paid in cash doesn’t mean you are avoiding tax.

Oh i totally get that, but other things like RTB reg etc that these guys avoid too. Whilst i accept that this does not apply to all landlords being paid cash, i am talking about the large portion of them that this does apply to

Pkiernan

JimmyMW wrote: »

Oh i totally get that, but other things like RTB reg etc that these guys avoid too. Whilst i accept that this does not apply to all landlords being paid cash, i am talking about the large portion of them that this does apply to

How large?

Gumbo

JimmyMW wrote: »

Oh i totally get that, but other things like RTB reg etc that these guys avoid too. Whilst i accept that this does not apply to all landlords being paid cash, i am talking about the large portion of them that this does apply to

I think you need to substantiate your wild claims here.
How many is a large proportion?

Do you want the same checks down for the taxi man I paid yesterday in cash, the small corner shop I bought milk and bread in this morning using cash?

JimmyMW

Pkiernan wrote: »

How large?

Gumbo wrote: »

I think you need to substantiate your wild claims here.
How many is a large proportion?

Do you want the same checks down for the taxi man I paid yesterday in cash, the small corner shop I bought milk and bread in this morning using cash?

Fair enough lads, point made, however its common knowledge this is happening, i am not asking to discuss the extent to which it is happening, i am simply asking if there are any controls to stop it, if you don't know the answer then fine, no need to compare any other cash business regulatory controls as this does not address my question.

Also your comparisons of the taxi man you paid cash to is misleading, as the equivalent comparison is the lad with no taxi plate, who is not registered and who is not running a business legally, who you paid cash to yesterday for a spin, similar applies to your corner shop comparison

Graham

Mod Note

Thread split.

Deeec

This is also true the other way round. I was renting out a property last year. I had several requests from potential tenants that they wanted to pay cash. They were obviously earning cash on the black market that they needed to get rid of. I seriously doubt they were paying tax on this so its not just landlords.

I didnt pick any of them because I seen them as I high risk.

antoinolachtnai

JimmyMW wrote: »

Fair enough lads, point made, however its common knowledge this is happening, i am not asking to discuss the extent to which it is happening, i am simply asking if there are any controls to stop it, if you don't know the answer then fine, no need to compare any other cash business regulatory controls as this does not address my question.

Also your comparisons of the taxi man you paid cash to is misleading, as the equivalent comparison is the lad with no taxi plate, who is not registered and who is not running a business legally, who you paid cash to yesterday for a spin, similar applies to your corner shop comparison

Well firstly, the Revenue has a list of all rental property. It has this to administer LPT. Secondly, it tends to know where people are living from income tax registrations. Thirdly, it sees when property changes hands from stamp duty, capital acquisitions and capital gains returns. That’s before we start talking about things like the RTB and listings on daft.ie. (And to get interest relief you have to be registered with RTB.)

So in the end it is not really possible to keep vast amounts of rental income out of the tax net over the long term.

Gumbo

You might get away with it this year or next year but eventually you will be caught.

JimmyMW

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well firstly, the Revenue has a list of all rental property. It has this to administer LPT.

Can you expand on this? could i not have my PPR and several holiday homes which i use for personal use only? How would they know the difference?

Claw Hammer

JimmyMW wrote: »

Can you expand on this? could i not have my PPR and several holiday homes which i use for personal use only? How would they know the difference?

Lifestyle analysis, electric accounts, mobile phone accounts, tenants having their personal taxes correspondence sent to the same address. The bin records, the electricity consumption. Where did the money come from to acquire the properties? How are borrowings being paid? What happens to the rent collected?

omegaodie

Gumbo wrote: »

You might get away with it this year or next year but eventually you will be caught.

Nah mate. This is Ireland. Give up hoping for change, and before you judge the people who could change it, you'd be doing the exact same in their shoes.

biko

As long as you receive a receipt for your cash payment the rest isn't really of your concern much.

nuckeythompson

Many years ago I was paying my landlord in cash - he had an apartment above his butcher shop.
Initially I had issues paying in cash on the day he wanted it as sometime I may not be there and I also had to take the amount out over a period of 3 days from an ATM. Anyhow I continued to do this as per his request.
This was a time when we had a rent tax relief in place. So I went to him one day and asked him for his PRSI number - his answer was he needed to ask his wife.
Some weeks later I asked him again , I forget how much this was worth to me but I think in the region of 200 EUR. Now his response was that he didnt want to give it to me as I was getting a good deal ( most certainly not ) and he would not be providing this.
I then suggested that he provide me with what revenue would which was approx 200 EUR I think. Guess what? I got the same answer that I was getting a good deal ( he actually was a Cavan man).
So I raised this with revenue who asked me to provide his property details etc and what info I had. I did this and long story is because he wanted to save approx 200 EUR he ended up with a massive bill from revenue which included back tax- penalty and interest.

Never understood why this system was removed as it encouraged tenants to register for tax releif

Claw Hammer

omegaodie wrote: »

Nah mate. This is Ireland. Give up hoping for change, and before you judge the people who could change it, you'd be doing the exact same in their shoes.

Quarterly, every year, the Revenue publish details of people upon whom penalties and interest were charged. The list excludes people who made voluntary admissions. There are always a few landlords in the list. People do get caught and have to pay up. It is only at an extreme stage it gets to publication. The majority cough up to avoid publicity.

Jet Black

JimmyMW wrote: »

Sorry for side tracking this thread a bit, i hear of so many landlords side stepping this and essentially not paying any tax on their rental income, by insisting on cash rent etc, how is it that they get away with this? surly there is some net of some description to catch these jokers out?

Tenant can report them
There's a group set up called (HEMG) set up to tackle the shadow economy.

It's mostly up to the tenant to report it. There's one tax defaulter with LL down as occupation with failure to lodge income tax return that was fined for tax evasion this year between April and June. Going forward we will see us move toward a cashless society, but I would bet there will still be ways around it.