Planning required for offset rear extension?

RonnieL

Hello,

Newbie question. I'm planning to build an extension at the back of my house. Would what I've shown in the attached file be ok without planning (assuming it's less than 40 square meters and not too high), considering it would be at the rear, but to the side, next to the boundary wall?

Thanks!

Gumbo

Yes that’s all considered to the rear.
Height not as issue of staying single storey.

Observations.
Will you be blocking off the side entrance by building this?

RonnieL

Gumbo wrote: »

Yes that’s all considered to the rear.
Height not as issue of staying single storey.

Observations.
Will you be blocking off the side entrance by building this?

Thanks for the quick reply!

Yeah, but it feels like a fair bit of wasted space. Thinking of adding a side door into the utility on that side, and we can put the bins out there, keeping the other side for access.

Gumbo

RonnieL wrote: »

Thanks for the quick reply!

Yeah, but it feels like a fair bit of wasted space. Thinking of adding a side door into the utility on that side, and we can put the bins out there, keeping the other side for access.

Make sure the distance to the boundary is 1m then.
I think removal of the side entrance is a big no. It reduces the value and appeal of the house IMO.

sydthebeat

RonnieL wrote: »

Hello,

Newbie question. I'm planning to build an extension at the back of my house. Would what I've shown in the attached file be ok without planning (assuming it's less than 40 square meters and not too high), considering it would be at the rear, but to the side, next to the boundary wall?

Thanks!

In my opinion that extension is not "to the rear" but partially to the side and therefore not exempt.

Apply for a section 5 to be sure

Penn

sydthebeat wrote: »

In my opinion that extension is not "to the rear" but partially to the side and therefore not exempt.

Apply for a section 5 to be sure

Yeah I would have thought the same, it breaks the side plane of the house. But you're likely to get a section 5 declaration to allow it

Gumbo

sydthebeat wrote: »

In my opinion that extension is not "to the rear" but partially to the side and therefore not exempt.

Apply for a section 5 to be sure

I probably should have stated that in my post also, In My Opinion.

I was thought that because it’s all to the rear of the rear building line of the dwelling it’s classed as the rear.

A section 5 application will give you an official answer from the council alright.

Gumbo

Penn wrote: »

Yeah I would have thought the same, it breaks the side plane of the house. But you're likely to get a section 5 declaration to allow it

But if the section 5 allows it, then by default it’s exempt?

A Section 5 is simply asking the council if the works as described are considered development and requires planning?

Penn

Gumbo wrote: »

But if the section 5 allows it, then by default it’s exempt?

A Section 5 is simply asking the council if the works as described are considered development and requires planning?

They may decide to deem it to be exempt if it's not substantial enough to warrant planning. In particular even though it could be considered a side extension for breaking the side plane of the house, it might still be considered exempt under 4(1)(h) or 4(2)(a)(i) of the Planning & Development Act

(h) development consisting of the carrying out of works for the maintenance, improvement or other alteration of any structure, being works which affect only the interior of the structure or which do not materially affect the external appearance of the structure so as to render the appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure or of neighbouring structures;

(2) (a) The Minister may by regulations provide for any class of development to be exempted development for the purposes of this Act where he or she is of the opinion that—
(i) by reason of the size, nature or limited effect on its surroundings, of development belonging to that class, the carrying out of such development would not offend against principles of proper planning and sustainable development,

RonnieL

Gumbo wrote: »

Make sure the distance to the boundary is 1m then.
I think removal of the side entrance is a big no. It reduces the value and appeal of the house IMO.

Oh does a door need to be 1m? It's only about 900mm.

RonnieL

Penn wrote: »

They may decide to deem it to be exempt if it's not substantial enough to warrant planning. In particular even though it could be considered a side extension for breaking the side plane of the house, it might still be considered exempt under 4(1)(h) or 4(2)(a)(i) of the Planning & Development Act

Thanks for the detailed replies. I'll have to do more research it seems, but is a section 5 something that take a lot of paperwork/time generally?

Penn

RonnieL wrote: »

Oh does a door need to be 1m? It's only about 900mm.

Any opes should be 1m from the boundary in order to be exempt. It's to do with fire regulations.

RonnieL wrote: »

Thanks for the detailed replies. I'll have to do more research it seems, but is a section 5 something that take a lot of paperwork/time generally?

Less than a planning application, but it depends on the scale of what you're doing. You need to provide enough info, whether by drawings, sketches or description, as well as a Section 5 form to be completed too. You need to be able to give the planner enough info to be able to make the decision on it. If not, they won't be able to judge it and you'd end up having to go for planning.

newirishman

Why not just get planning permission? For sake of a few hundred quid and a few weeks of duration.

sydthebeat

Gumbo wrote: »

I probably should have stated that in my post also, In My Opinion.

I was thought that because it’s all to the rear of the rear building line of the dwelling it’s classed as the rear.

A section 5 application will give you an official answer from the council alright.

As a rule of thumb, once its visible from the front, it's not all "to the rear"..

I'm pretty sure there has been ABP determinations similar to that effect as well.

sydthebeat

for example:

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/RL2/RRL2506.pdf

The view can be taken that the “rear of the house” is confined to the area beyond the
rear wall of the main house, excluding any additions by way of extensions, or
structures ancillary to the residential use of the house that project beyond the
side/gable wall. As such, the extension would not fall within the definition of Class
One in that an extension must extend from and beyond the rear of the house if it is to
be in accordance with the description within Class One. On the basis of the
foregoing, it can be concluded that there is no provision for exemptions for
development to the side, even if the projection is at the rear of the house such as in the
case of the development subject of the Question and therefore that the development is
development and is not exempted development.

RonnieL

newirishman wrote: »

Why not just get planning permission? For sake of a few hundred quid and a few weeks of duration.

I was under the impression planning was a slow and painful process. Not really based on anything, but when talking to anyone about an extension, one of the first things to come up has been "stay under 40 square meters and you don't need planning".

RonnieL

sydthebeat wrote: »

for example:

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/RL2/RRL2506.pdf

The piece you quoted seems pretty clear that what I've proposed wouldn't be exempt then. Thanks.

Gumbo

RonnieL wrote: »

The piece you quoted seems pretty clear that what I've proposed wouldn't be exempt then. Thanks.

Move the extension in.
1. Planning exempt.
2. Side entrance is retained.

Gumbo

newirishman wrote: »

Why not just get planning permission? For sake of a few hundred quid and a few weeks of duration.

Depending on location, planning will not be a couple of hundred.

RonnieL

sydthebeat wrote: »

for example:

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/RL2/RRL2506.pdf

Gumbo wrote: »

Move the extension in.
1. Planning exempt.
2. Side entrance is retained.

Yeah, that's what I'd designed until this afternoon, when I thought it would be nice to save a bit of garden space by shifting the extension over by the width of the side. Honestly, losing the side entrance doesn't bother me at all.

By the way, regarding the distance of a door from the boundary wall, I went out and measured, and it's about 1.03 meters from the existing window to the wall, but about 93cm from the wall below the window to the boundary wall. So, assuming the door would be in the same place as the window (that's what I was thinking), would that make it legit?