Illegal to fit a second hand boiler?

Merrion

I've a Gloworm C24x that I have removed from the extension that is going to be knocked and was going to see if anyone I knew could make use of it but am told that it is illegal to fit a second hand boiler so it will have to go to the dump.

Anyone know if this is the case?

Lenar3556

Merrion wrote: »

I've a Gloworm C24x that I have removed from the extension that is going to be knocked and was going to see if anyone I knew could make use of it but am told that it is illegal to fit a second hand boiler so it will have to go to the dump.

Anyone know if this is the case?

That is not the case, but the purchaser may encounter some reluctance on the part of gas installers who may be uncomfortable fitting a second hand applicance.
For a number of reasons both practically and from a certification perspective fitting a new one is more straightforward and less work.

When you buy a new gas appliance the manufacturers have met the testing requirements to prove the appliance is fit for purpose and safe to use, they are held accountable in the event of a death or explosion.

When a gas appliance is sold secondhand, in the unfortunate event of a incident the RGI will be asked to prove the appliance has met the same standards of testing as the manufacturers were required to do to sell it or he/she is in the doodoo

Merrion

Makes sense - OK trip to the dump...

wizardman

Someone would use it for spares for testing purposes, PCB, fan, pressure switch etc handy for an engineer might get him or her out of a hole!

Dtp1979

Merrion wrote: »

Makes sense - OK trip to the dump...

Don’t feel bad. Every Gloworm belongs there anyway.

But on a serious note, any installer that agrees to fit a second hand appliance should be avoided

wizardman

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Don’t feel bad. Every Gloworm belongs there anyway.

But on a serious note, any installer that agrees to fit a second hand appliance should be avoided

Fit about 200 Glow Worms a year with very few problems.

Merrion

I'd imagine the radiators will be easier disposed of.

Dtp1979

wizardman wrote: »

Fit about 200 Glow Worms a year with very few problems.

Each to their own I suppose. I can’t stand them myself

Merrion

Would it be any use as a donor for spares or as a training rig?

dathi

gary71 wrote: »

When you buy a new gas appliance the manufacturers have met the testing requirements to prove the appliance is fit for purpose and safe to use, they are held accountable in the event of a death or explosion.

When a gas appliance is sold secondhand, in the unfortunate event of a incident the RGI will be asked to prove the appliance has met the same standards of testing as the manufacturers were required to do to sell it or he/she is in the doodoo

the boiler is covered by the CE. mark . this shows that the manufacturer has carried out all tests on the boiler to show that it is fit for purpose . removing the boiler from house A and installing it in house B doesn't negate the CE. mark. What would negate the CE. mark is if the RGI altered the boiler. IE if the RGi took a part from one manufacturers boiler and jerry-rigged it to fit into another manufacturers boiled

dathi

dathi wrote: »

the boiler is covered by the CE. mark . this shows that the manufacturer has carried out all tests on the boiler to show that it is fit for purpose . removing the boiler from house A and installing it in house B doesn't negate the CE. mark. What would negate the CE. mark is if the RGI altered the boiler. IE if the RGi took a part from one manufacturers boiler and jerry-rigged it to fit into another manufacturers boiled

I am a boiler manufacturers technical representative, my post is based on my own findings.

Truth is nobody really cares if a second hand boiler is fitted unless there is a problem God forbid then there is a lot of interest in the boilers back story.

As a gas engineer I wouldn’t take the risk also as a first responder for many years I have seen some serious situations caused by secondhand appliances sold by people with little care for their fellow man unlike the OP.

Lenar3556

dathi wrote: »

the boiler is covered by the CE. mark . this shows that the manufacturer has carried out all tests on the boiler to show that it is fit for purpose . removing the boiler from house A and installing it in house B doesn't negate the CE. mark. What would negate the CE. mark is if the RGI altered the boiler. IE if the RGi took a part from one manufacturers boiler and jerry-rigged it to fit into another manufacturers boiled

I would agree. The manufacturers responsibility isn’t diminished by the fact that it was reinstalled at another location. If there were an incident at a later date, the fact that the boiler had previously provided service at another house is unlikely to be a material fact.

Notwithstanding the above, it’s not something I would encourage. In most cases it’s best to buy new, with warranty and all of the documentation, seals, fixings etc. present and in new condition.

antoinolachtnai

A boiler has a finite lifespan. There are some pretty inexpensive boilers in the market. A lot of the cost of installing a boiler is the labour and commissioning. If the boiler is of any age it is probably not financially worth it to fit the boiler in a new premises even if you have a willing installer and even if you get the boiler for free. You could save a few euros short term, certainly, but what then?

From the installer’s point of view, if he doesn’t know anything about the history of the boiler, why should he get involved? What if he finds, after he’s hung it on the wall, that some critical bit is broken? Who pays for the spare? Will he have a problem getting paid?

Boilers are cheap enough now. You might as well have the comfort of getting one in a cardboard box.

This is before all the extra safety concerns that arise with gas.

Lenar3556

Lenar3556 wrote: »

I would agree. The manufacturers responsibility isn’t diminished by the fact that it was reinstalled at another location. If there were an incident at a later date, the fact that the boiler had previously provided service at another house is unlikely to be a material fact.

Notwithstanding the above, it’s not something I would encourage. In most cases it’s best to buy new, with warranty and all of the documentation, seals, fixings etc. present and in new condition.

I do not know of any situation in Ireland or the UK where we were found liable for a secondhand/repositioned boilers safety issue and I’v been with them 18 years now.

Having dealt with more than one potential life ending situation in a home with a repositioned boiler let alone a secondhand one I have found the installer took the brunt of the mayhem that followed not me as the manufacturers representative also the homeowners safety with repositioned/secondhand boilers is totally dependent on the installers ability to identify any potential safety issues which can be missed as a lot of installers don’t have the skills of a boiler technician who would be more used to the internal operation of a gas boiler. To throw one more point in if the word negligent is used during any courts summing up then the installers public liability is null and void, why take the risk?

dathi

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

A boiler has a finite lifespan. There are some pretty inexpensive boilers in the market. A lot of the cost of installing a boiler is the labour and commissioning. If the boiler is of any age it is probably not financially worth it to fit the boiler in a new premises even if you have a willing installer and even if you get the boiler for free. You could save a few euros short term, certainly, but what then?

From the installer’s point of view, if he doesn’t know anything about the history of the boiler, why should he get involved? What if he finds, after he’s hung it on the wall, that some critical bit is broken? Who pays for the spare? Will he have a problem getting paid?

Boilers are cheap enough now. You might as well have the comfort of getting one in a cardboard box.

This is before all the extra safety concerns that arise with gas.

just to be clear i fully agree with the above

Lenar3556

gary71 wrote: »

I do not know of any situation in Ireland or the UK where we were found liable for a secondhand/repositioned boilers safety issue and I’v been with them 18 years now.

Having dealt with more than one potential life ending situation in a home with a repositioned boiler let alone a secondhand one I have found the installer took the brunt of the mayhem that followed not me as the manufacturers representative also the homeowners safety with repositioned/secondhand boilers is totally dependent on the installers ability to identify any potential safety issues which can be missed as a lot of installers don’t have the skills of a boiler technician who would be more used to the internal operation of a gas boiler. To throw one more point in if the word negligent is used during any courts summing up then the installers public liability is null and void, why take the risk?

And as I have said, I agree the sale/installation of second hand boilers is not something to be encouraged. I also agree fully that the comprehensive installation and commissioning of same would be significantly more onerous, albeit entirely possible to carry out legitimately and safely.

But the role and responsibility of a manufacturer isn’t changed by onward sale or moving the location of the unit. The declarations of conformity are not extinguished by such an event. The situation is not unlike a car manufacturer being sued for defective manufacturing or design. The fact the vehicle has been sold several times since initial sale isn’t particularly relevant.

For the record, a determination of negligence by a court in referring to works carried out by an installer would be highly unlikely to result in an insurers ability to ‘void’ a public liability policy. On the contrary, negligence is a component in the vast majority of successful claims against such insurance policies. Indeed negligence on behalf the insured would be an important proof in determining their liability in the first instance.

corkgsxr

wizardman wrote: »

Fit about 200 Glow Worms a year with very few problems.

Flexicom was a decent boiler with a few common problems.

The energy range has the same common problems as the flexicom but added a few more.

My main thing is boiler repair.


My take on 2nd hand boiler fitting is you'll be blamed for any issues that arise. Regardless of your fault or not.

Fit the newest cheapest boiler and you can expect some distance of reliability.

Saying that I avoid all the midrange. Bosch for me only