Deceased Parent’s Debts

Gervais08

Hi

I don’t know if this is the right place but my father died not long back.

I was paying his nursing home fees using his money. There were some issues at the start of his care and I fell behind.

What is the status here, does the debt die with him?

Thank you for your help, it would be one less thing to worry about if so.

Peregrinus

Gervais08 wrote: »

Hi

I don’t know if this is the right place but my father died not long back.

I was paying his nursing home fees using his money. There were some issues at the start of his care and I fell behind.

What is the status here, does the debt die with him?

Thank you for your help, it would be one less thing to worry about if so.

Depends on whether there's a contract between you and the nursing home, or between him and the nursing home.

Were you paying the fees from the outset? Did you sign papers when your father was admitted? It vitally matters what's in those papers.

But if your father arranged his own admission and signed all the papers, and you simply began administering the payments on his behalf as a convencience, different story.

You say you were paying the fees "using his money". How did you get access to his money?

Gervais08

Peregrinus wrote: »

Depends on whether there's a contract between you and the nursing home, or between him and the nursing home.

Were you paying the fees from the outset? Did you sign papers when your father was admitted? It vitally matters what's in those papers.

But if your father arranged his own admission and signed all the papers, and you simply began administering the payments on his behalf as a convencience, different story.

You say you were paying the fees "using his money". How did you get access to his money?

Hi, thanks for the reply - no I signed everything for him as he was suffering from dementia when admitted.

I had access to his accounts for years before he went into the home, as he wasn’t great before then so I’d keep an eye on his money - with his permission at the start of course.

Peregrinus

Take a look at what you signed, or get someone to look on your behalf.

One possibility is that there's a contract between the nursing home and your dad, and that you signed it purely as your dad's agent. In that case the fees are owed by your dad, and they should be paid out of his estate, but if the fees due are larger than his estate, they can't chase you for the excess.

A second possibility is that there's a contract between you and the nursing home to care for your dad, in which case you are personally responsible for the fees. This might be the case if, by the time he entered the nursing home, your father no longer had the mental capacity to enter into a contract and you didn't have a power of attorney to sign on his behalf.

A third possibility is that there is a contract between (a) you and your dad jointly, and (b) the nursing home. In this case both you and your dad are jointly liable for the fees and the nursing home can chase his estate, or they can chase you - whichever works best for them.

And the fourth possibility is that (a) there is a contract between your dad and the nursing home, but (b) you signed it not just as agent for your father, but also your personal capacity to guarantee payment of your dad's fees. In this case, again, the nursing home can chase your dad's estate, or they can chase you, whichever they prefer.

I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but these contracts were drafted by the nursing home, and it's likely that they will have protected their own interest in recovering what is owed to them, so odds are that when you look at the paperwork you will find that, one way or another, you are on the hook for the fees. So, while it's certainly worth looking into, don't be too disappointed if you find out that you have to pay.

This matters less if your father's estate is large enough to pay the fees, since your father's debts and funeral expenses should be paid out of his estate before anything is distributed under the will, or to his next-of-kin. So the questionof you having to pay personally only comes up if your father's entire estate is paid to the nursing home, and there is still a balance owing.

SortingYouOut

When your father's estate is being settled by a solicitor, debts will be repaid from that process, if possible.

ohnonotgmail

Gervais08 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the reply - no I signed everything for him as he was suffering from dementia when admitted.

I had access to his accounts for years before he went into the home, as he wasn’t great before then so I’d keep an eye on his money - with his permission at the start of course.

did you have power of attorney to sign for him?

Gervais08

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

did you have power of attorney to sign for him?

Hi, no I didn’t - it was never set up.

Thank you to all for the advice, I’ve sent emails saying I’ll send all his pension to them (as 80% is mandated under the scheme) and I have said I’ll “try” to catch up but nothing signed - if I have to repay them then I will but it will not be a large sum per month - Dad passed with no will and no assets; I look out a bank loan for the funeral costs.

ohnonotgmail

Gervais08 wrote: »

Hi, no I didn’t - it was never set up.

Thank you to all for the advice, I’ve sent emails saying I’ll send all his pension to them (as 80% is mandated under the scheme) and I have said I’ll “try” to catch up but nothing signed - if I have to repay them then I will but it will not be a large sum per month - Dad passed with no will and no assets; I look out a bank loan for the funeral costs.

I'm confused now. by scheme do you mean the fair deal scheme? The amount payable under that is calculated on your fathers assets at the time he entered the nursing home. If he had no assets then what does he have to pay? they just take the 80% of his pension. It is also my understanding that payment is not made until the person has deceased.

ratracer

Firstly, sorry for you loss OP, never a nice time.

I wouldn’t be writing to the nursing home offering them anything at this stage. I would recommend only dealing with enquiries into your dad’s affairs/ estate through a solicitor. Hopefully it is sorted out easily enough.

Take care of yourself.

Gervais08

ratracer wrote: »

Firstly, sorry for you loss OP, never a nice time.

I wouldn’t be writing to the nursing home offering them anything at this stage. I would recommend only dealing with enquiries into your dad’s affairs/ estate through a solicitor. Hopefully it is sorted out easily enough.

Take care of yourself.

Thank you!