Remote working policies in Ireland

makeorbrake

I've not been living in Ireland over the last few years and I'm not in a rush to go back. However, there is a job that may be coming up and it's the job that is an attraction rather than moving back home.

As Ireland along with the rest of the world has embraced remote working in 2020, what's the legal aspect of working for an Irish company remotely yet living abroad?

Can this only be done on a contractor basis? If directly employed by an Irish company, do you have to spend a minimum amount of time living within the jurisdiction each year for that to be legally acceptable? Is the only way to work remotely (and outside of the country) - to do so on a contractor basis?

I'd imagine there are bound to have been some cases of folks working remotely in 2020 and taking off abroad unofficially whilst doing so. Any idea how companies have dealt with / responded to this?

Karlos77

Good topic. I am Interested to see responses

Misguided1

It’s not as easy as one might think. Depending on the industry, nature of the job etc there are tax and regulatory considerations. If you are thinking of being paid in the country in which you base yourself, there would be a cost to the company. If you are thinking of being paid in Ireland but living abroad, you would most likely have to pay tax and social insurances etc. There may also be issues with benefits like health insurance and death in service benefits. It’s not straightforward

I’m not sure that it would be different for a consultant. Legally I don’t think there is anything preventing it but the law governing you would be the law in the country in which you spend most of your time so you might not have the same legal protections as a country like Ireland offers.

makeorbrake

Misguided1 wrote: »

If you are thinking of being paid in Ireland but living abroad, you would most likely have to pay tax and social insurances etc. There may also be issues with benefits like health insurance and death in service benefits. It’s not straightforward

I’m not sure that it would be different for a consultant. Legally I don’t think there is anything preventing it but the law governing you would be the law in the country in which you spend most of your time so you might not have the same legal protections as a country like Ireland offers.

This makes sense. Having searched for remote work over the past few months, naturally there's plenty of it (given covid) but most companies in N.America were insisting on remote but US based - and clearly, it's because of issues you bring up above.
I've since secured employment with a US company - but on a contractor basis. The role with the Irish company seems far more interesting to me - but living in Ireland right now, not so much!

OMM 0000

We have a lot of staff who work remotely (most work remotely).

It generally works like this:

They invoice us every month, we pay them, and then it's up to them to pay tax wherever they're resident.

So we are paying for a service.

I would assume the same would work for you:

You bill the Irish employer, they pay you, and then in whatever country you're in you have a company or you're a sole trader and you arrange tax payments yourself.

flipflophead22

A good place to get more info on this type of stuff is this slack group i joined recently, very informative and someone in there could be doing something similar.

growremotecommunity.slack.com

C3PO

OMM 0000 wrote: »

We have a lot of staff who work remotely (most work remotely).

It generally works like this:

They invoice us every month, we pay them, and then it's up to them to pay tax wherever they're resident.

So we are paying for a service.

I would assume the same would work for you:

You bill the Irish employer, they pay you, and then in whatever country you're in you have a company or you're a sole trader and you arrange tax payments yourself.

If they invoice you then they are not really employees but contractors? I know a lot of companies in the financial sector have contacted their employees and told them that they must return to the country and be based here even if they are working remotely. This is for tax reasons I understand.

makeorbrake

OMM 0000 wrote: »

We have a lot of staff who work remotely (most work remotely).
It generally works like this:
They invoice us every month, we pay them, and then it's up to them to pay tax wherever they're resident.
So we are paying for a service.

Yes, in the case of my current north american 'employer', I'm effectively providing a service rather than an employee.

In the case of the Irish employer, they're looking for an actual employee. Is it a case in this instance - that you could work remotely and be a fully fledged employee - so long as you were tax resident in Ireland in a calendar year? i.e. you stay in Ireland 183 days/year.

OMM 0000

C3PO wrote: »

If they invoice you then they are not really employees but contractors? I know a lot of companies in the financial sector have contacted their employees and told them that they must return to the country and be based here even if they are working remotely. This is for tax reasons I understand.

Yes, technically contractors, but we treat them the same as the other employees.

They have an open ended contract.

OMM 0000

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, in the case of my current north american 'employer', I'm effectively providing a service rather than an employee.

In the case of the Irish employer, they're looking for an actual employee. Is it a case in this instance - that you could work remotely and be a fully fledged employee - so long as you were tax resident in Ireland in a calendar year? i.e. you stay in Ireland 183 days/year.

I think this answers that:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/what-constitutes-pay/paye-exclusion-order-issued-by-revenue/non-resident-directors-and-employees-recruited-abroad.aspx

Non-resident employees recruited and working abroad

You do not need to apply for an Exclusion Order, or operate PAYE, for a non-resident employee who:

* is not resident in Ireland for income tax purposes
* was recruited abroad
* carries out all the duties of their employment abroad
* is not a director of your company
* has no Income Tax liability in Ireland.
* You do not need to include the employee on your payroll submission. You should keep a record of any payments you make to the employee.

Sounds like you!

makeorbrake

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think this answers that:

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/what-constitutes-pay/paye-exclusion-order-issued-by-revenue/non-resident-directors-and-employees-recruited-abroad.aspx
Sounds like you!

That's interesting. I thought it would be more difficult than that. Although, with that income tax stipulation, that might trip me up (I pay tax on property rental earnings).

Is there much $ benefit for an employer to run with a contractor vs. a direct hire?

OMM 0000

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is there much $ benefit for an employer to run with a contractor vs. a direct hire?

Yeah for our local staff we have to pay pension, healthcare, desk (and all the other expenses that comes with having an employee onsite), and there is extra HR effort.

If I just use one of our employees as an example, he costs us an extra EUR 7000 per year because he's not a contractor.

It's not a huge amount, but multiply it by multiple employees and it starts to add up.

Misguided1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yeah for our local staff we have to pay pension, healthcare, desk (and all the other expenses that comes with having an employee onsite), and there is extra HR effort.

If I just use one of our employees as an example, he costs us an extra EUR 7000 per year because he's not a contractor.

It's not a huge amount, but multiply it by multiple employees and it starts to add up.

Have you any concerns that this could be viewed as mis-categorising an employee as a contractor? Particularly with the new protection of employment bill making its way through the courts, this sort of arrangement is likely to become less and less popular (I would have thought).

Just curious as this would be an interesting workaround...

OMM 0000

Misguided1 wrote: »

Have you any concerns that this could be viewed as mis-categorising an employee as a contractor? Particularly with the new protection of employment bill making its way through the courts, this sort of arrangement is likely to become less and less popular (I would have thought).

Just curious as this would be an interesting workaround...

No, they really are contractors, living abroad.

makeorbrake

Came across this twitter thread and thought I'd add it here as it's likely to be of interest to anyone fascinated by remote working and the future of work in that context.