Right of Way through our land

CurranBun

HI everyone,
Hoping someone can help steer us in the right direction.

We purchased a property just over a year ago on aprox 10 acers. (5 are bog land)

There is a public right of way through our land.
To get to it, you need to go through our front gates (always left open at the moment) down our drive way, which passes our home, and out another gate (also left open) into our bog-land. This is where the right of way is, which is a short walk through our land, to an exit onto a main road. This is for pedestrians only.

Lately we have been getting worried of people going past our home, and also as it is a bog, worried of someone hurting themselves, we would also like to put electric gates in at the top of our drive for security purposes.

If we were to put gates in on our drive way, do we need to leave access? what are our rights to closing this off, as it is on our private property?

The walk way it is of no purpose to the public, it is a busy country road at the exit point, only few people use it.

Also - it is getting very overgrown and would probably not be accessible after another year or so with wild bushes etc. are we liable to keep it cleared or as its a public right of way, is that up to the council?

so its 2 questions really
1- can we put in electric gates at the top of our drive?
2 - can we allow the walkway to overgrow and be inaccessible?

Thanks so much in advance

john9876

How many people use it? Is it locals that use it? Is it sign posted?

CurranBun

john9876 wrote: »

How many people use it? Is it locals that use it? Is it sign posted?

A handful of people use it, and they seem to be local, not sure how else they would know about it, and no, it is not sign posted or advertised in anyway.

Our main concern is wanting to close off our home and put gates in, our whole home & garden are wide open at the moment.

nuac

Mod
Suggest you consult the solicitor who acted for you in purchasing the property.
Will leave open for general discussion subject to forum rules

listermint

If there's no rights of way on your own drive then I would assume you don't have to leave your gates open.

What does the land registry maps indicate.

CurranBun

listermint wrote: »

If there's no rights of way on your own drive then I would assume you don't have to leave your gates open.

What does the land registry maps indicate.

Im not exactly sure to be honest, I may pull them out and look, if the drive is included in the right of way, would we have to leave them open?

elperello

What purpose are the people using the right of way for?

Is it on your deeds?

coylemj

CurranBun wrote: »

There is a public right of way through our land.
To get to it, you need to go through our front gates (always left open at the moment) down our drive way, which passes our home, and out another gate (also left open) into our bog-land. This is where the right of way is, which is a short walk through our land, to an exit onto a main road. This is for pedestrians only.

A right of way is meaningless if it starts at a point on private property to get to which there is no right of way. So if that right of way exists at all, it starts at your front gate and goes all the way through the route you described, it does not begin at the gate which leads onto the bogland. If the right of way started there, you could lock your front gate, legally deny access to your drive and effectively extinguish the right of way.

coylemj

Mad_maxx wrote: »

a right of way is exclusive to a handful of people at most , its not a public highway

Is there no such thing as a public right of way any more?

Mad_maxx

coylemj wrote: »

Is there no such thing as a public right of way any more?

i beg your pardon

i was thinking of a private right of way , il delete my earlier post

Graces7

small point; if it is so overgrown, it is hardly used?

However it can become a very thorny ( in a different way) and vexatious issue if someone local decides to make it so, so please get it clear legally? Been there done that.

CurranBun

Thanks for all the advice everyone, we are going to double check our deeds, and see if it only starts after our main entrance.
if it does not we will check out what we can do legally.
Thanks again.

DD1518

A public right of way would have been mapped out on your title/folio that your solicitor should have highlighted at the time of purchase. Therefore people will always have right of way and you cannot block access even if putting up a gate you would have to provide an entrance point in. You own the field so technically it would be up to you to keep it cut or let it grow as wild as you like it's no concern of the council.

listermint

DD1518 wrote: »

A public right of way would have been mapped out on your title/folio that your solicitor should have highlighted at the time of purchase. Therefore people will always have right of way and you cannot block access even if putting up a gate you would have to provide an entrance point it. You own the field so technically it would be up to you to keep it cut or let it grow as wild as you like it's no concern of the council.

not necessarily. What if the right of way crosses his land, but starts and ends on someone elses land.

His own driveway would have nothing to do with it and he doesnt have to provide access. Someone else does from their side. It all comes down to what the map states.

coylemj

listermint wrote: »

not necessarily. What if the right of way crosses his land, but starts and ends on someone elses land.

It's pretty clear that there is no other landowner involved........

CurranBun wrote: »

There is a public right of way through our land.
To get to it, you need to go through our front gates (always left open at the moment) down our drive way, which passes our home, and out another gate (also left open) into our bog-land. This is where the right of way is, which is a short walk through our land, to an exit onto a main road. This is for pedestrians only.

ganmo

You can put up electric gates but you have to give access to whoever has the right of way...in your case the wider public.
Now it might only be a pedestrian right of way so a stile beside the electric gate might do.

Now letting it grow over. There is an obligation to maintain it safe for those who have access.

Claw Hammer

ganmo wrote: »

You can put up electric gates but you have to give access to whoever has the right of way...in your case the wider public.
Now it might only be a pedestrian right of way so a stile beside the electric gate might do.

Now letting it grow over. There is an obligation to maintain it safe for those who have access.

Some rights-of-way allow for vehicular access, so the style would be an impediment to those users who have a right to bring vehicles over the land.

listermint

coylemj wrote: »

It's pretty clear that there is no other landowner involved........

No that's not clear. He just state's to get to it... That means nothing.

It could be simple people walking down his driveway to intersect to an access which crosses his land.

The map will tell but that text does not.

seamus

As someone else mentioned, if you have the room then it would be worth putting in a gap beside your electric gate so that only pedestrians can access the right of way.

In terms of security, you could then fence off the right-of-way with a 2m fence or wall (I'd be inclined to go with a fence at the front, changing into a solid brick wall at the side). This would maintain your obligations without compromising your security or having to leave your gates open.

I'd consult your solicitor in terms of your obligations with the bogland and what is the bare minimum you have to do.

coylemj

listermint wrote: »

No that's not clear. He just state's to get to it... That means nothing.

It could be simple people walking down his driveway to intersect to an access which crosses his land.

The map will tell but that text does not.

One end of the route is the OP's front gate, the other end is an exit from bogland (on the OP's property) to a public road. End to end, the entire route is across the OP's property.

And the OP has explicitly stated that

There is a public right of way through our land

Please expand on your theory as to how another landowner could be involved.

Viscount Aggro

Very few public rights of way exist. They need to start and end at public property. If nothing in your deeds, or a dedication by landowner, then its meaningless. Likely its locals have used it for years without being challenged. Its up to someone else to prove there's a right of way. If private, then its other landlocked owners have a right, and those people only. ROW disputes are nasty and expensive. Look up the Collen case.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

As someone else mentioned, if you have the room then it would be worth putting in a gap beside your electric gate so that only pedestrians can access the right of way.

In terms of security, you could then fence off the right-of-way with a 2m fence or wall (I'd be inclined to go with a fence at the front, changing into a solid brick wall at the side). This would maintain your obligations without compromising your security or having to leave your gates open.

I'd consult your solicitor in terms of your obligations with the bogland and what is the bare minimum you have to do.

One of those step-entries they use when rights of way cross lands where animals are. that would also stop eg dogs getting in.?

The worst I had was on a rental when an old neighbour claimed a row through the garden then through the back fields to his house. In fact when he had vehicular access to his farm that, as his solicitor had told him, was defunct. no longer legal. IT was a narrow path between 2 thick overgrown hedges. So to "protect" his row, he set fire to the hedges and nearly burnt the ESB lines … and that was just one of his little ...

Effects

How many people use the right of way at the moment? It doesn't sound very convenient if you need to cross over bogland.

StackSteevens

Effects wrote: »

How many people use the right of way at the moment? It doesn't sound very convenient if you need to cross over bogland.

If the bogland is commonage then it may well be an historical right of way to access the bog for the purposes of harvesting turf - or grazing livestock.

I think these may be extinguished but haven't a clue how!

Interesting article here: https://www.pierse.ie/2010/07/17/new-act-may-extinguish-existing-rights-of-way/

POBox19

Close the gate and see what happens.
Establish with the Property Registration Authority [prai.ie] if there is a registered RoW.
The fact that the public walk over your property does not mean that it is a public right of way. Are they neighbours who got into the habit of taking a shortcut, or random walkers on a day out?
It could be that the RoW existed to allow access to the bog which you now own. If that’s the case you can extinguish the RoW as both properties are in common ownership.

Effects

StackSteevens wrote: »

If the bogland is commonage then it may well be an historical right of way to access the bog for the purposes of harvesting turf - or grazing livestock.

That's what I'm wondering. We have bogland that we can access via our own fields, but there's a common access road that's over the road a bit. It's how my grandad would have accessed it historically.

A few years back a neighbour put a gate on it, as it's next to his own fields.
I just made sure I keep using it as a right of way to the bog, as do other neighbours.

listermint

coylemj wrote: »

One end of the route is the OP's front gate, the other end is an exit from bogland (on the OP's property) to a public road. End to end, the entire route is across the OP's property.

And the OP has explicitly stated that

Please expand on your theory as to how another landowner could be involved.

Your own quote states exactly what i said.

The OP never indicated where the right of way was through their land. Lets say for example their driveway was south entrance into their home. But the rear of their property has a yellow line designated diagonally across it from one boundary to the other, with zero connection to the driveway. That would still mean. right of way through their land.

It does not mean the driveway has to provide access to it. I think you are hung up on your own defintion of what he wrote. Simple facts are , It needs a map