The only survivor of the kingsmill massacre believes it was british intelligence who

Hqrry113

Alan Black, the only survivor of Kingsmill, believes that IRA members involved in the massacre were double agents working for the British state. He believes there was a "cover up" and that British security forces knew the massacre was going to happen but allowed it to. Karen Armstrong, sister of victim John McConville, said: "A lot of people were being protected back then and they still are".It has been suggested that the gunman with the English accent could have been British Intelligence officer Robert Nairac.

John Weir, a former RUC officer and member of the "Glenanne gang", claims he discovered that British Intelligence, through Nairac, was "playing republican and loyalist paramilitaries off against each other to draw the IRA away from it's war against the state and it's main political goals".

In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes:

There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], some of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] members have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the IRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other.


In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added:

I believe much of the violence generated during the latter part of last year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA!

Hqrry113

Bhh

Time to leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. No good can come from digging up old wounds.

Hqrry113

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Time to leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. No good can come from digging up old wounds.

Nothing wrong with trying to find out the truth of what really happened

ShatterAlan

Sure a government in cahoots with its security and intelligence services would NEVER kill innocent civilians to further a political agenda. That's the stuff of conspiracy theories, don't ya know.

KaneToad

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with trying to find out the truth of what really happened

And holding those responsible to account.

dxhound2005

Any further developments since 2014 when this was in the news?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-26219935

Nexytus

British intelligence had significantly infiltrated all these organisations on both sides. So had they wanted to do something like this it would certainly have been within their means.

EmmetSpiceland

Nexytus wrote: »

British intelligence had significantly infiltrated all these organisations on both sides. So had they wanted to do something like this it would certainly have been within their means.

Isn’t it estimated that half of the “senior figures” in the IRA were informing for the Brits? Hard to see how they weren’t “aware” of, almost, everything that was going on.

salamiii

i don't think so

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/background-ten-protestants-murdered-by-ira-in-kingsmill-massacre-1.3348879?mode=amp

Hqrry113

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with trying to find out the truth of what really happened

A new account just innocently throwing the most provocative and divisive content out there, for the sake of a cheap reaction. You know what you can do with your fishing rod.

Hqrry113

Nexytus wrote: »

British intelligence had significantly infiltrated all these organisations on both sides. So had they wanted to do something like this it would certainly have been within their means.

Difference is the loyalists were infiltrated to the point where they were pretty much completely controlled by the security services, Colin wallace (one of the highest ranking intelligence officers during the troubles) said during the Stevens inquiry that When you talk about Intelligence, of the 210 people we arrested, only three were not (Intelligence) agents. Some of them were agents for all four of those particular organisations (Army, MI5, MI6 and Special Branch)

The IRA was nowhere near infiltrated to the point of the loyalist organisations.

Hqrry113

salamiii wrote: »

i don't think so

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/background-ten-protestants-murdered-by-ira-in-kingsmill-massacre-1.3348879?mode=amp

What is this supposed to mean? What is your point in posting that link?

bb1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

Time to leave all that stuff in the past where it belongs. No good can come from digging up old wounds.

Do you disapprove of the old Nazi guards being tried at 90 years of age today?

Nexytus

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Difference is the loyalists were infiltrated to the point where they were pretty much completely controlled by the security services, Colin wallace (one of the highest ranking intelligence officers during the troubles) said during the Stevens inquiry that When you talk about Intelligence, of the 210 people we arrested, only three were not (Intelligence) agents. Some of them were agents for all four of those particular organisations (Army, MI5, MI6 and Special Branch)

The IRA was nowhere near infiltrated to the point of the loyalist organisations.

I think you're probably right. But there would have been a capacity to steer things at times in regard to all groups. Or to accentuate or misdirect a particular operation that some of 'their people' were in involved with.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Back in the day, when Kingsmill was the most sought after bread in the land... even worth taking another man's life for...

Some people even say the rising was named in homage to the great Kingsmill loaf!

corner of hells

bb1234567 wrote: »

Do you disapprove of the old Nazi guards being tried at 90 years of age today?

Was there Nazi guards involved in the Kingsmill massacre?

Hqrry113

Nexytus wrote: »

I think you're probably right. But there would have been a capacity to steer things at times in regard to all groups. Or to accentuate or misdirect a particular operation that some of 'their people' were in involved with.

Correct, with the end goal obviously being to defeat the IRA and an end to rebellion against British rule in Ireland.

Some would say they accomplished that just not in the way they wanted.

Hqrry113

corner of hells wrote: »

Was there Nazi guards involved in the Kingsmill massacre?

Jiuu

Hqrry113

What chance did the IRA have when the brits can use tactics like false flag terrorism, this is similar to the shankill fish shop bombing.

In 2016, allegations were made that the IRA commander who planned the bombing was a police informer for the RUC's Special Branch, and that he told his handlers of the planned attack. This information allegedly came from classified documents stolen by the IRA from Castlereagh RUC base in 2002. IRA members believe the informer was given the go-ahead by his handlers to rig the bomb so that it exploded prematurely. They believe the goal was to cause mass civilian casualties, weakening those in the IRA who opposed a ceasefire and who wanted to continue the armed campaign. Relatives of the victims asked the Police Ombudsman to investigate whether police knew about the attack before it happened.

Galwayguy35

Sure Nairic got his reward a while later anyway, from what I've read about him he deserved it as well.

Feisar

Hqrry113 wrote: »

What chance did the IRA have when the brits can use tactics like false flag terrorism, this is similar to the shankill fish shop bombing.

In 2016, allegations were made that the IRA commander who planned the bombing was a police informer for the RUC's Special Branch, and that he told his handlers of the planned attack. This information allegedly came from classified documents stolen by the IRA from Castlereagh RUC base in 2002. IRA members believe the informer was given the go-ahead by his handlers to rig the bomb so that it exploded prematurely. They believe the goal was to cause mass civilian casualties, weakening those in the IRA who opposed a ceasefire and who wanted to continue the armed campaign. Relatives of the victims asked the Police Ombudsman to investigate whether police knew about the attack before it happened.

The phrase Perfidious Albion didn’t come out of thin air!

Zebra3

Feisar wrote: »

The phrase Perfidious Albion didn’t come out of thin air!

Even jailed one of their own to cover it up.

Hamsterchops

I presume Alan Black is a Unionist, so of he says the British security forces were behind the Kingsmill massacre, then that's pretty condemning.

Necro

Mod:

History forum might be better suited to this OP. You can leave your soapbox at the door though. Thread Closed.