Unexplained coolant leak

gandalfio

Hi,

Coolant keeps draining to empty. Garage ran a pressure test and said they can't find any leak. They've tested it 3 times in 3 months. It drained twice in 3 days last week.
They told me to add nova stop and top it up with concentrated coolant.
I did this. Then an hour later I had smoke billowing from the engine and the temperature gauge maxed out.
Garage rang me this morning, they say the alternator is gone and this was causing the smoke. They say its completely unrelated to the coolant issue and that the coolant level is where it should be and hasn't gone down.
Are they having me on? Is it possible for such a coincidence to happen? Or did their advice to use the nova stop and concentrated coolant cause the issue?

Toyotafanboi

At least tell us what car it is?

jmreire

gandalfio wrote: »

Hi,

Coolant keeps draining to empty. Garage ran a pressure test and said they can't find any leak. They've tested it 3 times in 3 months. It drained twice in 3 days last week.
They told me to add nova stop and top it up with concentrated coolant.
I did this. Then an hour later I had smoke billowing from the engine and the temperature gauge maxed out.
Garage rang me this morning, they say the alternator is gone and this was causing the smoke. They say its completely unrelated to the coolant issue and that the coolant level is where it should be and hasn't gone down.
Are they having me on? Is it possible for such a coincidence to happen? Or did their advice to use the nova stop and concentrated coolant cause the issue?

No matter what the make, I definitely would not recommend any of these "stop leak" additives..under any circumstances. Have you tried parking it in a shed or other dry floor space, and check it each morning? If its a Mercedes Benz with the OM 651 engine, they have an fuel filter housing which is attached to the engine block and allows hot water from the cooling system to circulate around the filter. These will give no outward signs of leaking, but it will show in the radiator header tank. They are very prone to leaking and there is a modified 3 bolt housing as replacement available for them. So ig your car is a Merc, that's where I'd be looking.

gandalfio

Apologies, its a 152 Skoda Octavia Estate. 1.6. 90bhp.
Mechanic is insistent its a coincidence. But the engine overheated 10kms after I added the nova stop and concentrated coolant top up.

CoBo55

If there's no smell of stinking coolant in the car ( heater matrix leaking) it's the water pump. Did he pressure test it? Is the heater working?

gandalfio

CoBo55 wrote: »

If there's no smell of stinking coolant in the car ( heater matrix leaking) it's the water pump. Did he pressure test it? Is the heater working?

Yes pressure tested a couple of times. They're now saying that when they fitted the new alternator is began to overheat. So it's also the pump and timing belt that need to be replaced. They say all unrelated, I just think it all going haywire 10kms after adding the nova stop had to have contributed.

Toyotafanboi

Adding Novastop into one of those has to be the award winner for the worst advice i've seen given to anyone this year. Sweet Jesus.

The coolant system in those is prone to terminal blockages at the best of times causing terrible bother, adding the likes of a stop leak product to that is a recipe for disaster.

As above, 99.9% chance it's the water pump leaking, it leaks into the timing cover so wont be noticed under a pressure test unless it's pi55ing out. Usually you'll see a small amount of white dusty coolant reside at the bottom of the timing cover on closer inspection.

I've never heard of an alternator giving bother on one of those engines and it's a fair coincidence that it happened an hour after the Novastop. I'd say that the coolant reservoir cap wasn't properly tightened after the Novastop was added and as the car heated up it started steaming through the cap. Could be wrong though.

My gut is to get the car away from whoever is looking at it. That's a very popular car and an extremely popular engine fitted to dozens of VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda models for almost a decade. If they can't diagnose a coolant leak on one and go on to recommend a stop leak, they shouldn't be let near the car.

gandalfio

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Adding Novastop into one of those has to be the award winner for the worst advice i've seen given to anyone this year. Sweet Jesus.

The coolant system in those is prone to terminal blockages at the best of times causing terrible bother, adding the likes of a stop leak product to that is a recipe for disaster.

As above, 99.9% chance it's the water pump leaking, it leaks into the timing cover so wont be noticed under a pressure test unless it's pi55ing out. Usually you'll see a small amount of white dusty coolant reside at the bottom of the timing cover on closer inspection.

I've never heard of an alternator giving bother on one of those engines and it's a fair coincidence that it happened an hour after the Novastop. I'd say that the coolant reservoir cap wasn't properly tightened after the Novastop was added and as the car heated up it started steaming through the cap. Could be wrong though.

My gut is to get the car away from whoever is looking at it. That's a very popular car and an extremely popular engine fitted to dozens of VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda models for almost a decade. If they can't diagnose a coolant leak on one and go on to recommend a stop leak, they shouldn't be let near the car.

Thanks for the advice. Too late now to take it back as they've started work on it. Pump/belt arrive tomorrow hopefully and they said I'll have it back on Wednesday. Does €1100 for the new pump, belt and alternator sound reasonable?
Could the alternator have gone as a result of the novastop being added or just a big coincidence?

Toyotafanboi

They are expensive alternators in those as the have smart charging so €1100 does sound about right for all work if they are using genuine Skoda parts.

It could have failed and it could just be bad timing but it is a big co-incidence.

Have a look at the coolant when you get the car back. Anything other than bright pink should be alarm bells.

CoBo55

gandalfio wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. Too late now to take it back as they've started work on it. Pump/belt arrive tomorrow hopefully and they said I'll have it back on Wednesday. Does €1100 for the new pump, belt and alternator sound reasonable?
Could the alternator have gone as a result of the novastop being added or just a big coincidence?

I'd be very suspicious that the alternator failed in the first place. Is it a brand new alternator being fitted? They aren't cheap. IF it's a brand new alternator then maybe 1100 could be justified, as you say it's really too late now.

gandalfio

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

They are expensive alternators in those as the have smart charging so €1100 does sound about right for all work if they are using genuine Skoda parts.

It could have failed and it could just be bad timing but it is a big co-incidence.

Have a look at the coolant when you get the car back. Anything other than bright pink should be alarm bells.

They had quoted 480 for the alternator, parts and labour. Then 1100 all in when they fitted the alternator and it began to fail they realised it needed the other parts.
I must check if they are using skoda parts.
If it's not coincidence, what could have caused the alternator to go? Or could they have used the alternator as an excuse to cover up the mistake they made?

Toyotafanboi

480 parts and labour seems cheap to me, that leaves 620 for the timing belt and water pump job which seems far too much, a Skoda main dealer will do that for 399. None of it stacks up really.

Ask for the old parts back and see what their respose is.

jetfiremuck

Pressure testing should be done hot and cold first off. Then a pressure test from cold where the pressure is allowed build up from cold to temp and switched off. Monitor pressure drop. Pressure test rad cap. Agree with posters re stop leak...bad news.

gandalfio

I'll phone them in the morning and ask are they using skoda parts, is the alternator brand new, and for the broken parts back.

gandalfio

Would you mind clarifying something for me. Is it possible that adding the nova stop lead to the alternator breaking?
Or what happened when the nova stop was added? Did it lead to the engine overheating? (as 10kms after adding the nova stop smoke billowed from the engine and the temperature gauge reached the maximum level).

Is it possible that the mechanic made up the alternator story so they wouldn't have to admit they messed up by giving me the nova stop advice, and not finding the pump problem in the first place? And never replaced the alternator, or did when they didn't need to?

Leonard Hofstadter

It's no coincidence that the car overheated almost immediately after NovaStop was fitted. How was it decided that it needs a new alternator? Presumably the battery light came on or some fault relating to the alternator appeared when a diagnostic scan was done?

listermint

Is this a garage or a back street shed ?


Because from what ive read so far they dont have a clue what they are doing. Id be suprised if they pressure tested it or even did it right based on what im hearing.

This sounds like a case of throw whatever at the car and bill the customer.

listermint

gandalfio wrote: »

Would you mind clarifying something for me. Is it possible that adding the nova stop lead to the alternator breaking?
Or what happened when the nova stop was added? Did it lead to the engine overheating? (as 10kms after adding the nova stop smoke billowed from the engine and the temperature gauge reached the maximum level).

Is it possible that the mechanic made up the alternator story so they wouldn't have to admit they messed up by giving me the nova stop advice, and not finding the pump problem in the first place? And never replaced the alternator, or did when they didn't need to?

Well you dont put stop leaks in a car for a start. Its the type of ****e thats done by dodgy second hand car dealerships to get a car over the sale line.

You find the cause for the leak and you fix it.

This could be anything from a bad cap on the reservoir , to a bad pipe from the reservoir ,to a damaged radiator or coolant hose, to a head gasket.


All the underside should have been removed and left sit to spot ground leaks first anything obvious as such.


No the alternator should not be in anyway related and im unsure why that was changed without a power fault.

jmreire

listermint wrote: »

Well you dont put stop leaks in a car for a start. Its the type of ****e thats done by dodgy second hand car dealerships to get a car over the sale line.

You find the cause for the leak and you fix it.

This could be anything from a bad cap on the reservoir , to a bad pipe from the reservoir ,to a damaged radiator or coolant hose, to a head gasket.


All the underside should have been removed and left sit to spot ground leaks first anything obvious as such.


No the alternator should not be in anyway related and im unsure why that was changed without a power fault.

And if after leaving it parked over a dry floor overnight, and there are no water marks visible on the ground next morning, then it's leaking only when the engine is running. / driving...is the carpet under the dash completely dry?

gandalfio

Collected the car today and spoke to the mechanic about all of the above. They insist that the alternator breaking as soon as the nova stop being added was a coincidence and it the alternator failing would have happened regardless. They stand by the decision to advise using nova stop and it's advice they've always given and will continue to give.
They didn't strip the car down because it would have cost me hundreds each time they did so and didn't find the fault.
To sum up, they've replaced the timing belt, pump and alternator. They also mentioned something about serpentine that I don't understand. And the car seems to be working well.
No point in me taking it any further. I've discussed all the above with the mechanic and it's a lesson learned.
Cheers for all the advice.

listermint

gandalfio wrote: »

Collected the car today and spoke to the mechanic about all of the above. They insist that the alternator breaking as soon as the nova stop being added was a coincidence and it the alternator failing would have happened regardless. They stand by the decision to advise using nova stop and it's advice they've always given and will continue to give.
They didn't strip the car down because it would have cost me hundreds each time they did so and didn't find the fault.
To sum up, they've replaced the timing belt, pump and alternator. They also mentioned something about serpentine that I don't understand. And the car seems to be working well.
No point in me taking it any further. I've discussed all the above with the mechanic and it's a lesson learned.
Cheers for all the advice.

Serpentine belt is the accessories belt .

None of this makes sense. And if they are advising to put in Nova stop on a car I wouldnt darken their door again.

You need to keep some coolant in the boot and a close eye on the temp gauge for the next few weeks. Don't be caught out.