Stopcock Problem

daphil

Hi folks,
I am trying to turn off the water supply to a holiday home. After much digging, I think I have found the stopcock,it's unlike anyone I've ever seen, but it was put in some 50/60 years ago.
It looks like it's a case of using a flat headed screwdriver, (or maybe some special tool), to turn the supply off.
Stop Valve.jpg
See attached file, (I hope)
Any help appreciated,
Dave

The Continental Op

Although I'm not a plumber I've turned off plenty of mains stop valves in the past and never seen anything like that?

That makes no sense as an outside valve. Think about it that thread is going to get full up with soil at some stage and not work correctly.

That looks a little like some old pressure relief valves and pressure reduction fittings I've seen.

Vey interested on what it turns out to be though so keep us updated.

I've just replaced a leaking old mains stop valve (Irish Water were too stupid to find it and put in a water meter ) and its an easy job provided you don't have to dig out in the street. My water comes in under a grass verge.

The Continental Op

I've just had a google for stopcocks and stop valves and can't find anything similar but one thing did occur to me is that you might have found the fitting used to connect your supply to the mains. So the actual stop valve would be somewhere between that and the house. Whats bothering me is those phillips screw heads.

Edit - Also that plastic wavin pipe is likely to be newer than 50 years old? So if the installation is as old as you think someone has been doing something with it since.

salamiii

should be one inside the house in kitchen or bathroom can you take more soil out and take another photo of pipe stopcock does not look old have you got gas or oil heating as it does not look like water

daphil

Thanks for the help so far lads. There is no stopcork inside the house as far as I can see. There is also no Irish water metre there, as it was (is?), on a group scheme.
I suppose there must be a stopcock somewhere, although, the supply might have been taken from another house that is no longer there.
More digging required,
It's now my brother's house and while there is oil heating, that comes in through an outside boiler on the other side of the house.
Thanks
Dave
Cork

The Continental Op

If its in grass (as opposed to being in tamac, concrete or the like) I'd dig up just to the side of that fitting to at least find the pipe. If you dig up the standard half inch heavy gauge plastic then its an easy job to cut into it and put in a new stop valve. I do it with the water still on. If you practice a bit it can be done in a few seconds so there is very little water sprayed around the place (you have the tap fully open so there is no pressure build up as you make the joint).

salamiii

did you try a large screwdriver to try and turn it
it might be an earth bonding clamp dig outside the pipe to see what it is

daphil

salamiii wrote: »

did you try a large screwdriver to try and turn it
it might be an earth bonding clamp dig outside the pipe to see what it is

I was afraid of damaging the "slot", so I left it for today.

The Continental Op

salamiii wrote: »

did you try a large screwdriver to try and turn it
it might be an earth bonding clamp dig outside the pipe to see what it is

Funny you should say that reminded me of the bonding clamps they use for lightening conductors on massive tall buildings but I don't think you find those in the ground.

From the notches you can see in that wavin pipe it looks like whatever goes through there is running from left to right which should give an idea of where to start digging.

salamiii

many old houses did not have a stopcock
most times it's undersink follow sink pipe.have you mains or town water it might be in the tank in the attic or hot press you can tie up the ball cock in atic and drain your taps make sure you turn off heating

daphil

salamiii wrote: »

many old houses did not have a stopcock
most times it's undersink follow sink pipe.have you mains or town water it might be in the tank in the attic or hot press you can tie up the ball cock in atic and drain your taps make sure you turn off heating

The house is in rural West Cork, nothing to see under the sink and virtually no head space in the attic, not sure I could get up there.
Will dig up more of the ditch during the week,
Thanks Lads.

Outofthecity

Hi,the stopcock for our house is in the boilerhouse at the side of the house.Might be worth a look.We dont have one in the house.

Vestiapx

That looks like an earth, dig it out but I think it's an earth

daphil

It's not an earth, as I can see the pipe emerging from both sides.
Digging around at the bottom of the Wavin tube, I found this.
It looks like a dust cover and looking at the + and - signs on in, an earlier suggestion of some sort of flow meter may be correct.
Thanks
Dave

The Continental Op

daphil wrote: »

It's not an earth, as I can see the pipe emerging from both sides.
Digging around at the bottom of the Wavin tube, I found this.
It looks like a dust cover and looking at the + and - signs on in, an earlier suggestion of some sort of flow meter may be correct.
Thanks
Dave

+ & - same as you would get on a pressure regulator.

Any chance you are low down and there are houses much higher up than you on the same water system.

The water supply could have been set up the group scheme so no body can take too much water so if the pressure is regulated for everyone then there is always a supply and one person using an outside tap on full won't cut of everyone up stream of them. But that is a bit of a stretch as I doubt many/any schemes are set up with that much common sense.

Edit - did a bit of googling and this is the sort of thing I think the OP has found this sort of pressure regulator



Ignore the pressure gauge you won't have that but note the 4 screws holding it all together, a bit like the first picture.

daphil

The Continental Op wrote: »

+ & - same as you would get on a pressure regulator.

Any chance you are low down and there are houses much higher up than you on the same water system.

The water supply could have been set up the group scheme so no body can take too much water so if the pressure is regulated for everyone then there is always a supply and one person using an outside tap on full won't cut of everyone up stream of them. But that is a bit of a stretch as I doubt many/any schemes are set up with that much common sense.

Edit - did a bit of googling and this is the sort of thing I think the OP has found this sort of pressure regulator



Ignore the pressure gauge you won't have that but note the 4 screws holding it all together, a bit like the first picture.

I don't see a guage, but it looks like that may be the answer. The supply is coming down a hill and maybe it needed a pressure regulator.
Will have another look for a stop cock, seems it could be anywhere, if indeed it is there.
Thanks for all the help and advice,
Dave

The Continental Op

The gauge is normally an option extra but they make them so cheap nowadays they throw them in with some fittings. Many pressure reducing valves will have a blanked off connection to take a pressure gauge.

If it was me I'd have the stop valve on the mains supply side of any pressure relief valve. So I'd go looking for the main stop valve back towards where the mains supply comes from. That said there could be more than one stop valve and on a water scheme anything goes.

daphil

The Continental Op wrote: »

The gauge is normally an option extra but they make them so cheap nowadays they throw them in with some fittings. Many pressure reducing valves will have a blanked off connection to take a pressure gauge.

If it was me I'd have the stop valve on the mains supply side of any pressure relief valve. So I'd go looking for the main stop valve back towards where the mains supply comes from. That said there could be more than one stop valve and on a water scheme anything goes.

One final question, if the pressure relief valve is turned fully off, would that stop the flow completely ?
Thanks

The Continental Op

daphil wrote: »

One final question, if the pressure relief valve is turned fully off, would that stop the flow completely ?
Thanks

Nice try but never on the few I've tried. That screw compresses a spring which acts on a diaphragm which controls a valve that afaik can never completely stop the flow.

By the look of it someone has tried that in the past. I doubt anyone would have bothered adjusting the water pressure once it was set the first time.

If you can dig its no big job to put in a new quarter turn Philmac stop valve - http://www.philmac.co.uk/products/?pg=4&pid=320 at a convienient location. Water pipes are rarely buried very deep. You do need to be 100% sure of the pipe size (iirc you need the 25mm valve + inserts for 1/2inch heavy duty pipe which is the commonest on older water supplies). Dig up a good stretch of pipe so you can cut it and lift out of the ground easily and not work with your face down in a hole filling with water . Most suppliers will allow you to buy different sizes of fitting and return the ones you don't need (ask first!).

daphil

The Continental Op wrote: »

Nice try but never on the few I've tried. That screw compresses a spring which acts on a diaphragm which controls a valve that afaik can never completely stop the flow.

By the look of it someone has tried that in the past. I doubt anyone would have bothered adjusting the water pressure once it was set the first time.

If you can dig its no big job to put in a new quarter turn Philmac stop valve - http://www.philmac.co.uk/products/?pg=4&pid=320 at a convienient location. Water pipes are rarely buried very deep. You do need to be 100% sure of the pipe size (iirc you need the 25mm valve + inserts for 1/2inch heavy duty pipe which is the commonest on older water supplies). Dig up a good stretch of pipe so you can cut it and lift out of the ground easily and not work with your face down in a hole filling with water . Most suppliers will allow you to buy different sizes of fitting and return the ones you don't need (ask first!).

I recently removed my own, also old, stopcock, which was leaking. Took 6 inch section of the cut pipe to the local Co-op and a friend of mine there, set up a "joining" connection which I inserted no problem.
The big difference, was that I have an Irish Water stop valve outside, so could turn off the supply.
So a last look for a stopcock during the week and if it can't be found, it will be a case of cutting the flowing supply and getting job done as quickly as possible.
Thanks to everyone who offered advice,
Dave