Do I have a spring or burst water line?

hometruths

Not really a farming question, but figured farmers would have best knowledge on the problem!

When clearing some overgrown land, noticed a very soggy area. Further investigation led to finding saturated land, and pooled water around the base of some trees. Did a bit of digging and now have a small flow of water coming from ground.

Cannot find any hoses or pipes, and it's definitely not mains water. It's possible it is a long forgotten feed that I was completely unaware of, but if so not clear where it is coming from or going to!

Need to identify the source of it but unsure as how best to proceed. Are there people who specialise in this sort of thing? I have no idea! Thanks.

Wildsurfer

schmittel wrote: »

Not really a farming question, but figured farmers would have best knowledge on the problem!

When clearing some overgrown land, noticed a very soggy area. Further investigation led to finding saturated land, and pooled water around the base of some trees. Did a bit of digging and now have a small flow of water coming from ground.

Cannot find any hoses or pipes, and it's definitely not mains water. It's possible it is a long forgotten feed that I was completely unaware of, but if so not clear where it is coming from or going to!

Need to identify the source of it but unsure as how best to proceed. Are there people who specialise in this sort of thing? I have no idea! Thanks.

Is there a nature of wet ground in the surrounding area aside from the area this source has affected?

NcdJd

Where the water is coming out from the ground is there any bits of slate or stone around ? We've still some of them old drainage lines running into ditches that my grandfather put in. Some are still working 50 years later

hometruths

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Is there a nature of wet ground in the surrounding area aside from the area this source has affected?

Generally very dry once away from the tree line. But ground further along tree line is not wet. Just not bone dry like the bits that get more sun of that makes sense?!

hometruths

NcdJd wrote: »

Where the water is coming out from the ground is there any bits of slate or stone around ? We've still some of them old drainage lines running into ditches that my grandfather put in. Some are still working 50 years later

No evidence of stone or slate or anything man made. It is at highest point of that field. There is a field above it on separate property, but I'd say it would be 100 years or more since properties were in same ownership, if ever.

minerleague

schmittel wrote: »

No evidence of stone or slate or anything man made. It is at highest point of that field. There is a field above it on separate property, but I'd say it would be 100 years or more since properties were in same ownership, if ever.

Is there piped water anywhere near that area that you know? are they palm trees?
roots of these could have disrupted old water fittings. Follow the water down is the only sure way ( might need digger)

hometruths

minerleague wrote: »

Is there piped water anywhere near that area that you know? are they palm trees?
roots of these could have disrupted old water fittings. Follow the water down is the only sure way ( might need digger)

They're 40 year old leylandii - giant weeds. No piped water that I am aware of.

patsy_mccabe

Get a shovel and pick and just keep digging. Dig down along the flow of the water. If you go down 2 feet or so and the water keeps flowing up, chances are it's a spring. Just drain the water away then to lower ground. A 3 tonne machine would do this.

muddle84

Something similar happened a neighbour where it was an old water pipe coming down off a mountain. The roots had managed to grow around and ruptured it.

The only way you will know for sure is dig it up and go deep enough to be happy its not a pipe.

hometruths

muddle84 wrote: »

Something similar happened a neighbour where it was an old water pipe coming down off a mountain. The roots had managed to grow around and ruptured it.

The only way you will know for sure is dig it up and go deep enough to be happy its not a pipe.

That's the problem. How deep is deep enough! Big feckin' tree and its roots in the way!! I've got down below the roots and still none the wiser.

muddle84

schmittel wrote: »

That's the problem. How deep is deep enough! Big feckin' tree and its roots in the way!! I've got down below the roots and still none the wiser.

At my neighbours, we had to go about 1.5m down to find the pipe. If you end up going 2m and find nothing, its probably time to consider digging a drain and let it flow!

minerleague

schmittel wrote: »

They're 40 year old leylandii - giant weeds. No piped water that I am aware of.

Unusual to see so much water where they grow, ground normally bone dry under them, wouldn't have been the route of old group water scheme? ( neighbour might know)

Odelay

minerleague wrote: »

Unusual to see so much water where they grow, ground normally bone dry under them, wouldn't have been the route of old group water scheme? ( neighbour might know)

This is true, they usually suck away any water.

What is the thing that looks like a pipe in the bottom of the second photo?

hometruths

minerleague wrote: »

Unusual to see so much water where they grow, ground normally bone dry under them, wouldn't have been the route of old group water scheme? ( neighbour might know)

Trees are there longer than all the nearby houses except mine. Nearest other house on a well. There is a farm beside that who has no knowledge, nor any loss of water pressure.

May have been group water for agriculture but no other farmers here now to ask!

hometruths

Odelay wrote: »

This is true, they usually suck away any water.

What is the thing that looks like a pipe in the bottom of the second photo?

Jam jar! Part of the investigative equipment. Will post it in the guntering thread before I patent it!

Seve OB

Bottle it and sell it!

hometruths

I've got in under the roots as best and as deep I can - proper flow of water forming a big pool under there but no sign of any pipe, and it is gravelly. i.e I feel the flow is too strong to be from a pipe buried deeper.

In further search of a pipe I dug a hole in a straight line parallel to field boundary about 2.5 metres away.

Very damp clay soil to a depth of about two metres at which point I hit what feels like bedrock. No pipe.

Started to widen this hole in direction of pool under roots and hit some very soft damp soil which unleashed a flow of water and filled the hole. See photo

My gut is telling me there is no water pipe here but I'd like to be sure without having to take the tree out!!

Aravo

You could take a sample of the water and get it tested. If chlorine is present in water its treated water and from a pipe.

hometruths

Aravo wrote: »

You could take a sample of the water and get it tested. If chlorine is present in water its treated water and from a pipe.

Good idea, and presumably cheaper than getting some crew out with pipe detectors and what not.

NcdJd

schmittel wrote: »

I've got in under the roots as best and as deep I can - proper flow of water forming a big pool under there but no sign of any pipe, and it is gravelly. i.e I feel the flow is too strong to be from a pipe buried deeper.

In further search of a pipe I dug a hole in a straight line parallel to field boundary about 2.5 metres away.

Very damp clay soil to a depth of about two metres at which point I hit what feels like bedrock. No pipe.

Started to widen this hole in direction of pool under roots and hit some very soft damp soil which unleashed a flow of water and filled the hole. See photo

My gut is telling me there is no water pipe here but I'd like to be sure without having to take the tree out!!

Let us know the outcome. I'm now intrigued by this. Do I see pebble gravel covered in muck at the bottom left hand corner of the photo ? It looks like the stuff i pulled up with the plough earlier in the year ( my grandfather's drains, he's probably looking down at me cursing me for going too deep )

hometruths

NcdJd wrote: »

Let us know the outcome. I'm now intrigued by this. Do I see pebble gravel covered in muck at the bottom left hand corner of the photo ? It looks like the stuff i pulled up with the plough earlier in the year ( my grandfather's drains, he's probably looking down at me cursing me for going too deep )

There is a little bit of gravel in there. but that has been pulled up from over 2 metres down.

I had a look at soil report from test hole dug for a planning application in adjoining field - test hole only about 20/25 metres away from this tree/water. Soil report says Loose Gravel/Silt at depth of 3 metres.

It's at highest point of the land. Would you put a drain here? I guess you might if water running off neighbours field.

NcdJd

schmittel wrote: »

There is a little bit of gravel in there. but that has been pulled up from over 2 metres down.

I had a look at soil report from test hole dug for a planning application in adjoining field - test hole only about 20/25 metres away from this tree/water. Soil report says Loose Gravel/Silt at depth of 3 metres.

It's at highest point of the land. Would you put a drain here? I guess you might if water running off neighbours field.

Might be just a spring so. Aravo's idea of getting the water tested for chlorine might be the way of ruling out if it's coming from a leaking mains supply.

Was it running during the summer ? If not it might be just a natural area that it surfaces from the hill above when the ground is saturated. Right time of the year to look at these mysteries

NcdJd

I've the reverse of this problem and have not figured it out yet. There's a pond in the corner of a field and when I was growing up it never ever went dry. But for the last 5 or 6 years, every year during the summer it goes dry. We've had droughts over the years but only the last 5 without fail it dries up. I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

I was gonna get a digger in to deepen it and make it a bit bigger but dunno if that would make any difference.

longgonesilver

That's because it's leaking into the neighbours and drowning his trees.

NcdJd

longgonesilver wrote: »

That's because it's leaking into the neighbours and drowning his trees.

Ha, Schmittel give me back my pond water..

longgonesilver

Is your pond in a natural wet spot in the field?

What was it used for in the past?

hometruths

NcdJd wrote: »

Might be just a spring so. Aravo's idea of getting the water tested for chlorine might be the way of ruling out if it's coming from a leaking mains supply.

Was it running during the summer ? If not it might be just a natural area that it surfaces from the hill above when the ground is saturated. Right time of the year to look at these mysteries

Re summer ground was damp but was not really paying much attention to it. It has been a bit overgrown, out of sight, out of mind.

First noticed the ground was wet in early spring time of last year, thought it was odd as tree roots would be expected to soak up any surface water, but didn't do anything else other than add it to the long list of tasks to put on the long finger.

Was clearing the overgrowth recently and noticed it again, thinking it had got a bit wetter.

Digging around to investigate revealed the flow, so now the problem a bit bigger than just a bit of wet ground around the trees! It's been taken off the long finger!

NcdJd

longgonesilver wrote: »

Is your pond in a natural wet spot in the field?

What was it used for in the past?

It's a network of ditches that are about 5 to 6 foot deep. The pond as we call it is in a corner then the ditch turns runs down my field an then runs on through my neighbours land. Where the pond is is the deepest point. So the last 5 years the ditch dries up from my side and the neighbours side and the pond is the last place that dries up.

Used to be all sorts of water creatures in it, including dragon flies etc.. but due to it drying out all that is gone bar the frogs. Its a mystery to me!

Grandfather said the British army used to dump their site in it years ago.

hometruths

I'm fairly sure the ground in that spot was not noticeably wet 5 or 6 years ago. i.e it didn't have puddles.

Is it possible the tree roots disturbed a permeable layer to release a spring, in the same way roots could crack a water pipe?

Anto_Meath

There are loads of underground aquifers all over the place, long hot spells or hard frost can open up the soils and that can cause these aquifers to change direction, this could be the case cause of your water appearing and NCDJD's water disappearing.

_Brian

schmittel wrote: »

There is a little bit of gravel in there. but that has been pulled up from over 2 metres down.

I had a look at soil report from test hole dug for a planning application in adjoining field - test hole only about 20/25 metres away from this tree/water. Soil report says Loose Gravel/Silt at depth of 3 metres.

It's at highest point of the land. Would you put a drain here? I guess you might if water running off neighbours field.

It’s a spring.
Just drain it away and it will be grand.

The gravelM you mention above, is it natural pebble or quarried stone, I’d guess its natural and that’s collecting surrounding groundwater and bringing it to you. Drain it away and your fine. We get the same here all the time.

hometruths

_Brian wrote: »

It’s a spring.
Just drain it away and it will be grand.

The gravelM you mention above, is it natural pebble or quarried stone, I’d guess its natural and that’s collecting surrounding groundwater and bringing it to you. Drain it away and your fine. We get the same here all the time.

It's natural

_Brian

schmittel wrote: »

It's natural

Get someone experienced in to drain it off properly and you'll not have any further trouble from it.

gozunda

Something similar. A field that had an small area which was permanently wet. No obvious drainage problems other than that. Sometime later was looking at old land maps and noticed the area was marked as a pond. Asked one of the oldtimers and they said they remembered the pond being used as a water source and had been known as the 'calf pond'. A larger pond was situated in the next field which the local landowners had rights for watering livestock. Over the years the 'calf pond' got filled in. But as it was spring fed the area remained wet.