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Public Sector v Private Sector

  • 15-10-2020 3:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Hi,
    I am in the selection process of the assistant principle officer in the public service. I am trying to figure out if successful what the benefit package will be.

    I would be taking a significant drop in pay coming in at the start of the scale

    My current role:
    XXXX Salary with very small year on year pay increase.
    25 days holidays
    pension
    sick days paid
    10% bonus in shares
    Gym
    Subsidized canteen.
    Currently working from home 100% of the time, prob will be this way in the future.

    I'd really appreciate if someone could outline the benefits you would get in the public sector, I am hearing about allowances but what does this mean to the assistant principle officer.

    Thanks,


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭ Augme


    There only what's in the information booklet really. If your current job has long term stability I'd ask yourself why do you want to switch and what's reason for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Augme wrote: »
    There only what's in the information booklet really. If your current job has long term stability I'd ask yourself why do you want to switch and what's reason for it.

    Current climate with Covid etc not sure any job is stable.

    reasons for switching would be pension and stability really. Also promotion after a few years.

    Its a tough one


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 oooosk


    Big long thread on the issue here:


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113626310


    I'm not sure what you mean by "benefit package", however most of the info you seek is outlined in the information booklet issued at the start of the AP competition or easily available online.



    Long story short though, you will not get rich in the civil service. There are no automatic entitlements to allowances or overtime (certainly not at AP level), no gym membership, no bonuses.



    The benefits are having a stable career that offers varied and interesting work across a range of Government Depts & Agencies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,600 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    oooosk wrote: »
    Big long thread on the issue here:


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113626310


    I'm not sure what you mean by "benefit package", however most of the info you seek is outlined in the information booklet issued at the start of the AP competition or easily available online.



    Long story short though, you will not get rich in the civil service. There are no automatic entitlements to allowances or overtime (certainly not at AP level), no gym membership, no bonuses.



    The benefits are having a stable career that offers varied and interesting work across a range of Government Depts & Agencies.

    You forgot the 2 hour lunch break, start at 930 finish at 545.
    3 months sick pay, annual increment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭ Inconspicuous


    Irishder wrote: »
    Hi,
    I am in the selection process of the assistant principle officer in the public service. I am trying to figure out if successful what the benefit package will be.

    I would be taking a significant drop in pay coming in at the start of the scale

    My current role:
    XXXX Salary with very small year on year pay increase.
    25 days holidays
    pension
    sick days paid
    10% bonus in shares
    Gym
    Subsidized canteen.
    Currently working from home 100% of the time, prob will be this way in the future.

    I'd really appreciate if someone could outline the benefits you would get in the public sector, I am hearing about allowances but what does this mean to the assistant principle officer.

    Thanks,


    Just to give you some background to the Assistant Principal roles in terms of benefits:


    You are on a defined salary scale with modest increases every year for the first 5 years (~3.5% p/a) and then you will receive two further pay increases; the first is after 3 years at the max of the scale and the second won't be for another 3 years again.


    APs generally have 30 days of annual leave on top of normal public holidays


    As a new entrant you will be on the career average earnings pension. This pension is not as attractive as previous pensions but by coming in at a high level it won't impact as much. You will however pay a lot towards it. It is also mandatory to join with no opt out.


    Sick leave is available. The first three months of sick leave is full pay and is reduced for the next 3 months at half pay. This however is in a rolling 4 year period (i think).



    No bonus scheme


    The only places I know that have gyms available to staff in the civil service is Garda stations. So if you are assigned to AGS you may be lucky enough to have access to a gym. Otherwise no.


    I don't know of anywhere that has a canteen serving food and I sincerely doubt that if you were lucky to have one that it would be subsidised


    A lot of the civil service are working from home from the moment...a lot are not. It is generally not a feature of the civil service so I would not be counting on it. There is a comitment in the current program for government to facilitate it more, but it will really come down to where you are assigned and how it could be facilitated


    Allowances are generally few and far between these days as DPER are trying their best to get rid of them. However they are normally extra payments paid on top of your salary when performing special or unusual services such as working as an immigration/customs officer, working shift / unsocial hours etc. APs (particularly ones hired directly) generally are not paid allowances and I would not be considering this as a means to boost your salary.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭ Augme


    Irishder wrote: »
    Current climate with Covid etc not sure any job is stable.

    reasons for switching would be pension and stability really. Also promotion after a few years.

    Its a tough one


    There are a number of areas where covid is unlikely to have a significant impact. Pension and stability will always be there. Don't bank on promotions with the current climate though.

    But if pension and stability are a big priority and stability in your current field isn't guaranteed then it depends on risk averse you are how employable you are.

    It's also a lot easier to go out of the civil service then it is to get in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,513 ✭✭✭ DubInMeath


    You forgot the 2 hour lunch break, start at 930 finish at 545.
    3 months sick pay, annual increment.

    Don't know anyone in the civil service or PS with a 2 hour lunch break or works 9.30 to 5.45. I don't work there but have family and friends who do.

    When I was working with IBM I worked 8.00 - 4.30 Monday to Thursday and 8.00 to 3.30 on Friday, with an hour lunch and unlimited tea and cigarette breaks. Also got six months full sick leave while earning twice for a tech role, before bonuses and other perks, that my cousin does as a line manager (AO) in the civil service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭ Chaos Black


    Below AP most people have Flexitime. Can take a two hour lunch but have to do your full day 7.24hrs not including break.

    Same with start and finish time.

    At AP grade and above, not on the clocks. More realistic you will be doing more then 7.24hrs a day and taking regular long lunches and starting late will not be a thing.

    Currently with remote working for the most part, no Flexitime for anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Divisadero


    You forgot the 2 hour lunch break, start at 930 finish at 545.
    3 months sick pay, annual increment.

    Yawn.

    OP as has been said the pension is no longer as good as it once was. Just be aware. There is no private health insurance or anything like that. If you have an illness and are off for more than 6 months you will be relying on Social Welfare (€203 pw for a single person). Unless you have private income protection insurance and your claim is approved. Some of the larger offices do have subsidised canteens. But the three I have eaten in were nothing like what you might find in some private sector staff canteens or universities for example. One was like going back to the 1980's. Which is a shame as I'm sure if they gave the catering contract to someone keen they would get much better value for money. But it was the usual same people doing it for years and resting on their laurels. Also bring you own mug as you won't get free tea or coffee. So buy your own or join the tea club. Same goes for Christmas parties etc. staff pay their own way. Although in some offices Management may contribute. Also a lot of the offices are very old and rundown. But you could be lucky and land in a new build or a high profile office. Many of these are minor things but I'm just trying to give you a full picture based on my experience.

    There are of course plenty of advantages too like job security and flexible working hours in many offices. Options for study are usually good too but it varies from Dept. to Dept. It's a lottery with regards to workload. It is very stressful in some areas and not so much in others. It can also vary from section to section within Govt. Departments/Offices. On the job training can be inconsistent too. By the way like many Civil Servants these days I have worked in both the Public and Private sectors in my time so have experienced both environments. Just be aware that it's not the paradise that many of the begrudgers on here and in the media would have you believe!


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Thanks all really appreciate the insights. I suppose one of my other concerns is my whole career to date and education is based around lean and operational excellence. My thinking is the Public sector will be very slow to embrace change and improve process's, which in turn might become very fustrating for me.

    Think i will continue with the interview process and make a decision if i get offered a role.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ Minier81


    Irishder wrote: »
    Thanks all really appreciate the insights. I suppose one of my other concerns is my whole career to date and education is based around lean and operational excellence. My thinking is the Public sector will be very slow to embrace change and improve process's, which in turn might become very fustrating for me.

    Lean has been embraced in many public sectors. Certainly in the hospitals. At AP level you would be at a level to deliver such projects.

    I am a public servant too. Agree with the above, you'll never be rich, you will pay alot towards your pension but it will be defined benefit. The long lunch breaks do not happen, unless it was a working lunch/meeting. I have stayed even though I've been offered higher pay in the private sector. My reasons for staying are job security and the feeling that I am working somewhere that is not only worried about making money. As with any job offer, it will either excite and entice you or it won't .... and if it doesn't its probably not the job for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭ Conqueror


    Just to say that there is a gym at Miesian Plaza, home to the Departments of Health and Children, as well as some staff from the Departments of Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform.


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Just following up on this, it looks like i made the panel for Kilkenny. Anyone have any idea what dept could be in Kilkenny. Still not sure weather to take it or not. I would be taking a substantial pay cut assuming i go in at the starting salary.

    Head is wrecked!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭ Kirbi


    According to the CS Mobility website, there's 9 organisations in Kilkenny (Zone28).

    But from the map it doesn't look like a lot of them have APs (assuming the numbers are up to date).
    One note if you're looking at this, is that the numbers should reflect total number of positions, not number of vacancies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Kirbi wrote: »
    According to the CS Mobility website, there's 9 organisations in Kilkenny (Zone28).

    But from the map it doesn't look like a lot of them have APs (assuming the numbers are up to date.
    One note if you're looking at this, is that the numbers should reflect total number of positions, not number of vacancies.

    thanks thats very helpful


  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ trixi001


    I moved to the public sector and have never looked back

    Its a completely different outlook - work life balance isn't a policy because it has to be - its real life in the public sector, or maybe i have just been lucky with my managers, but i have real flexibility from them..

    Yes, the salary is lower, especially at the bottom of the scale, but it shouldn't be too bad at the top of it!

    The pension is simply fantastic


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    trixi001 wrote: »
    I moved to the public sector and have never looked back

    Its a completely different outlook - work life balance isn't a policy because it has to be - its real life in the public sector, or maybe i have just been lucky with my managers, but i have real flexibility from them..

    Yes, the salary is lower, especially at the bottom of the scale, but it shouldn't be too bad at the top of it!

    The pension is simply fantastic

    How long ago did you move to Public sector. I'm 43 now so another will have a private and public sector pension. Is there anyway to find out what my public section pension will be when i retire?


  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭ trixi001


    Irishder wrote: »
    How long ago did you move to Public sector. I'm 43 now so another will have a private and public sector pension. Is there anyway to find out what my public section pension will be when i retire?

    I moved about 7 years ago- i my early 30's

    There is a calculator available to work out the pension

    https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

    A quick check of yours - a lump sum of €66k and then €14k per year (which isn't too bad for 25 years service, and contributions seem to be 3% of your salary, plus 3.5% of (salary - CSP (About €2k a month)


  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ doc22


    trixi001 wrote: »
    I moved about 7 years ago- i my early 30's

    There is a calculator available to work out the pension

    https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

    A quick check of yours - a lump sum of €66k and then €14k per year (which isn't too bad for 25 years service, and contributions seem to be 3% of your salary, plus 3.5% of (salary - CSP (About €2k a month)

    those figures look wrong:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    trixi001 wrote: »
    I moved about 7 years ago- i my early 30's

    There is a calculator available to work out the pension

    https://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/single-scheme-estimator-tool/

    A quick check of yours - a lump sum of €66k and then €14k per year (which isn't too bad for 25 years service, and contributions seem to be 3% of your salary, plus 3.5% of (salary - CSP (About €2k a month)

    Thanks for that, do you also get the normal social welfare pension on top of that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    The pension is now average salary and you do contribute a good bit towards it (although the pension levy has dropped a lot in recent years for new joiners). It also includes the state pension (i.e. if you work for 40 years with an average salary of 50k per year, your pension will pay 25k per year but that 25k includes the state pension. If the state pension was to drop to zero, you would still receive 25k per year).
    The pension is still a benefit but not like it once was - Maybe 5-10% of salary.

    Flexitime was a huge benefit but is being wound down for existing employees and in many cases not available to new joiners. So make sure to check that before joining.

    There is no private health insurance.

    Canteens are not guaranteed but if available are subsidised.

    Work/life balance is generally very good. You are expected to work your contracted hours and no more.

    Pressure will be much lower as it is a non-competitive environment. This can lead to staleness and boredom in some areas.

    Salaries are generally a bit lower than the private sector when you factor in bonuses. The trade off is job security. No worries about recessions or being laid off when you hit your mid-50s.

    I think the ideal situation is to work in the private sector while young and promotional opportunities are greater. Then switch over to public sector when settling down and have the stresses of raising a family etc. A late switch may only be possible in some areas though (e.g IT, Accounting etc.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭ Augme


    dubrov wrote: »
    Flexitime was a huge benefit but is being wound down for existing employees and in many cases not available to new joiners. So make sure to check that before joining.

    Is this a confirmed long term plan? I know covid has stopped flexi but I've not heard anything about it being wound down long-term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭ gifted


    I moved 2 years ago from private to public sector .... took a near 35% pay cut nett. Honestly, best decision I ever made. Increment every year, conditions are good. I adjusted the home budget to suit the lower wages.
    The difference in my happiness was evident within a month of starting.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Ravelleman


    Augme wrote: »
    Is this a confirmed long term plan? I know covid has stopped flexi but I've not heard anything about it being wound down long-term.

    This was AP level and above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,099 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    doc22 wrote: »
    those figures look wrong:confused:

    Don't think so - don't believe everything you hear in the press about gold plated pensions. The Single Pension Scheme for post 2013 entrants is modest.

    OP - promotional opportunities are highly competitive, so don't assume that these will definitely come your way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ doc22


    Don't think so - don't believe everything you hear in the press about gold plated pensions. The Single Pension Scheme for post-2013 entrants is modest.

    OP - promotional opportunities are highly competitive, so don't assume that these will definitely come your way.

    I didn't realise it was AP level, so the pension of 14k sounds alright, but at that pay scale, you'll be contributing heavily to it


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ Irishder


    Thanks for all the replys really appreciate it. Think i am going to stick to private sector, pay cut including bonus just makes it to costly. I have a decent pension now and my plan is to buy shares with my bonus and keep them until i retire.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭ Rodin


    You forgot the 2 hour lunch break, start at 930 finish at 545.
    3 months sick pay, annual increment.

    1645.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,099 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    Irishder wrote: »
    Thanks for all the replys really appreciate it. Think i am going to stick to private sector, pay cut including bonus just makes it to costly. I have a decent pension now and my plan is to buy shares with my bonus and keep them until i retire.
    If you're talking about buying shares in your own employer, it's not a great idea to have all your investment eggs in one basket. If the shares build up to a substantial investment, you should think about diversifying across different sectors and different regions to protect your investment.


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