Cloned car and solicitors letter

indie warrior

So in the summer I got a letter from eflow for two unpaid journeys on m50. I realised straight away from the date and times that it wasn't me as I was in work so I immediately contacted eflow to tell them.
They called out my reg and the make and model which is exact same as mine. I told them that it couldn't be as car was at my place of work at this time. They advised I report to guards which I did later that day in person to my local station.
I had to request the photograph evidence of journey and car is exactly as mine colour make reg
Anyway eflow are aware that I have reported to police as every month I got a letter with the bill mounting up and I have made lots of calls to eflow and to police to see if anything can be sorted, eflow tell me that the police should have reported to traffic division, I said I don't work for police or eflow so how am I supposed to know what the procedure is
Anyway now I have the solicitor letter stating unless I pay the bill now which is over €300 They will be prosucating me and judgement against me which will affect credit etc
Btw the pictures don't show the faces clearly in the car as visors are pulled down and there is a shine on it

Also just this week I had a letter from port tunnel 're unpaid €3 bill from same day. I rang them and explained and they told me not to worry about this and would delete the amount owed (unlike eflow there are no additional penalties building up
Lad there very kindly sent me a picture, and I can see a slight difference in my reg, ie the cloned car has like the garage name in white under the reg but mine doesn't

I'd say I am going to have to go to court and prove myself, my job will say I was in work at time as I was all day

Sorry for long post but has this happened to anyone and what was the outcome

markpb

If you haven’t already, get something in writing from the guards and send it with a letter delivered by registered post to eFlow. Don’t rely on phone calls. Keep a copy of both of these in case you need them later. Keep a record of all the calls you have made or make in the future.

If you can get proof that your car (not you) was at your office at the time of the toll trip, get that too. CCTV from your office might be helpful. Make sure it’s retained if you can.

The port tunnel is a funny one. I thought all the lanes at the toll were barrier protected?

indie warrior

markpb wrote: »

If you haven’t already, get something in writing from the guards and send it with a letter delivered by registered post to eFlow. Don’t rely on phone calls. Keep a copy of both of these in case you need them later. Keep a record of all the calls you have made or make in the future.

If you can get proof that your car (not you) was at your office at the time of the toll trip, get that too. CCTV from your office might be helpful. Make sure it’s retained if you can.

The port tunnel is a funny one. I thought all the lanes at the toll were barrier protected?

Thanks for reply

I did write to eflow and have noted the incident report number that the guards gave me. I have copies of all letter correspondence. I have requested a statement also of all journeys I have made which wouldn't be many which would show that I always pay by 8pm next day and log of all calls I have made relating to this

I have cctv of me entering my office at 8.15am on the day and leaving at 5 but unfortunately not of my car.

I have never been in port tunnel before so not sure what normally happens but they have sent me photo which I think is the best evidence I have that reg is different

lawred2

Do you drive to work or is the car at home during the day?

indie warrior

lawred2 wrote: »

Do you drive to work or is the car at home during the day?

I drive to work car is parked outside my job but not in view of the cctv, I have told them that I was at work and car was with me, I didn't leave my job all day, didn't lend car to anyone or didn't give car keys to anyone

Silent Running

Same thing happened to my son a couple of years ago. Same registration, make model and colour in the photo as my son's car, but the font on the reg plate was different. A 4 on the plate was open and the 4 on his plate was closed.

After reporting the issue to a Garda station -which was forwarded to Garda traffic in the Phoenix park- and providing photographs of my son's car, Eflow dropped the issue and he's heard nothing more about it.

lawred2

indie warrior wrote: »

I drive to work car is parked outside my job but not in view of the cctv, I have told them that I was at work and car was with me, I didn't leave my job all day, didn't lend car to anyone or didn't give car keys to anyone

that's nuts

seamus

indie warrior wrote: »

I drive to work car is parked outside my job but not in view of the cctv, I have told them that I was at work and car was with me, I didn't leave my job all day, didn't lend car to anyone or didn't give car keys to anyone

Ask your employer for two copies of an official letter on company paper confirming your uninterrupted attendance at work that day as well as the location of your workplace.

All you really need to prove is that

a) It wasn't you
b) Whoever it was, was not driving your vehicle with your permission

You don't actually have to prove your vehicle wasn't there, it just helps.

A letter from your employer, and written confirmation from the Gardai that you have reported the cloning to the Gardai, is sufficient.

Respond to every solicitor's letter, with a copy of both. Keep a log of every letter received and the date you responded.

oholly121

This happened to me about a year ago

Same colour and make of car with cloned reg

Expect very little assistance or sympathy from elfow there beyond terrible to deal with and really don't care your best bet as with me is to wait and work with their lawyers once its escalated to them

In my case the car drove down the M50 8 times in a week for 3 of those days my car was parked in the airport and i had a booking number and was able to get from the airport when I entered and exited the car park from them called eflow and explained everything they advised me to go to the garda which I did and they put a pause on the fees but after 2 weeks the letters resumed coming

Called eflow id say about 20 times to try get this resolved sent in registered post with evidence of my car being in the airport and details of me entering and leaving the airport plus a garda pulse number still letters kept coming and coming

Eventually i got a lawyers letter amount was over 2K they where asking for so called the lawyers down in Kerry and explained everything offered to send in all the aforementioned details to them too and I told them with all the evidence I had I was more than happy to go to court if they wanted to pursue this after about 3 weeks they called me back to tell me the case was closed.

Point is eflow wont accept your version of events if you have all the evidence you say wait and speak to their lawyers and tell them you wish to bring the matter to court that should do it !

indie warrior

seamus wrote: »

Ask your employer for two copies of an official letter on company paper confirming your uninterrupted attendance at work that day as well as the location of your workplace.

All you really need to prove is that

a) It wasn't you
b) Whoever it was, was not driving your vehicle with your permission

You don't actually have to prove your vehicle wasn't there, it just helps.

A letter from your employer, and written confirmation from the Gardai that you have reported the cloning to the Gardai, is sufficient.

Respond to every solicitor's letter, with a copy of both. Keep a log of every letter received and the date you responded.

I will do that, my employer has no problem giving me a letter to say I was in office all day that day,
The difficult part is trying to get the guard who I initially spoke to, they did give me the incident number, the solicitor doesn't care , they are telling me what the guards should have done, really should I be chasing the guards to te them how they should be dealing with this? Very frustrating

oholly121

indie warrior wrote: »

I will do that, my employer has no problem giving me a letter to say I was in office all day that day,
The difficult part is trying to get the guard who I initially spoke to, they did give me the incident number, the solicitor doesn't care , they are telling me what the guards should have done, really should I be chasing the guards to te them how they should be dealing with this? Very frustrating

Am I right I’m guessing that you have received a letter from eflows lawyers?

spaceHopper

Makes you wonder how often this happens but the person has an account with them so it gets paid.

silver2020

As above, send a copy of correspondence and details of garda report to the solicitors amd say that you have no problem attending court and presenting the same evidence to the court,

And say that of course, all costs of defending this will be applied for against Eflow as you have provided all this information in a timely manner.

Ask them to confirm that no further action will be taken and that the information enclosed is enough proof that the journey did not take place.

Claw Hammer

silver2020 wrote: »

And say that of course, all costs of defending this will be applied for against Eflow as you have provided all this information in a timely manner.

.

The case would be heard in the District Court and scale costs apply. The most that would be recovered in costs is a few hundred quid, not enough to pay a solicitor to attend.

kennethsmyth

You could also take a case against eflow for your time

Claw Hammer

kennethsmyth wrote: »

You could also take a case against eflow for your time

On what basis? They probably get the clone excuse 100 times a day!

kennethsmyth

Claw Hammer wrote: »

On what basis? They probably get the clone excuse 100 times a day!

On the basis that reasonable proof was provided yet eflow continued to pursue an action destined to fail. Eflow need to prove he did it not the other way around, so if a reasonable and provable evidence is given then action should end immediately with no further cost / time to the other party.

indie warrior

oholly121 wrote: »

Am I right I’m guessing that you have received a letter from eflows lawyers?

Indeed I have, I rang them, not very nice to deal with not interested in anything I had to say nor have the any correspondence of my dealings with eflow,
I assume they just get handed to client name to get the money

3DataModem

Claw Hammer wrote: »

On what basis? They probably get the clone excuse 100 times a day!

The ratio is about 75 to 1, according to someone I know who has worked with their fraud team i.e. for every genuine case of a cloned car or misread plate there are about 75 compelling attempts to defraud by normal people who don't want to pay the escalating costs.

oholly121

OK so now your dealing with their solicitors this is where you can make this disappear

As one of the previous posters stated and what I did send them all your evidence proving that you where in work and you did not leave work that day go to the garda one last time if you don't have the PULSE ID for your report get this and send it all down to them via registered post

You can either call them or include a letter within the post you are sending with all your evidence enclosed stating that you have provided ample evidence to prove that this is not your car and you don't wish to have any further letters from them unless its a civil summons that all you will accept and tell them if they persist on bringing this to court you will sue them for costs etc

that's all you need to do send this in and that it TBH I dont think they will pursue you for 300e particularly if you proved all aforementioned evidence I wouldn't be too worried

hullaballoo

indie warrior wrote: »

Indeed I have, I rang them, not very nice to deal with not interested in anything I had to say nor have the any correspondence of my dealings with eflow,
I assume they just get handed to client name to get the money

There is a chance that the letters you have been receiving from what you think is a solicitor are actually from debt collectors dressed up as solicitors. These letters usually have very threatening language, arrive very frequently and include "DRAFT" legal proceedings.

Of course, you may be dealing with a real law firm and we don't know but a lot of debt collectors use Lionel Hutz tactics.

oholly121

hullaballoo wrote: »

There is a chance that the letters you have been receiving from what you think is a solicitor are actually from debt collectors dressed up as solicitors. These letters usually have very threatening language, arrive very frequently and include "DRAFT" legal proceedings.

Of course, you may be dealing with a real law firm and we don't know but a lot of debt collectors use Lionel Hutz tactics.

No they are a real law firm I think its pierce and Fitzgibbons based in kerry

amadangomor

3DataModem wrote: »

The ratio is about 75 to 1, according to someone I know who has worked with their fraud team i.e. for every genuine case of a cloned car or misread plate there are about 75 compelling attempts to defraud by normal people who don't want to pay the escalating costs.

How many of the 75 are not attempts to defraud but people who just give in because of E flow's heavy handed tactics?

Bikerman2019

My friend had this issue with his van. The only difference was a roof rack. It did go to court and the judge went mad. When presented with the reports to the gardai about it and attempts to explain to Eflow and the Kerry crowd, he threw it out.


Make sure you document everything, send it to eflow and the solicitors. If it gets as far as court, present all your attempts and let the judge decide.

Claw Hammer

kennethsmyth wrote: »

On the basis that reasonable proof was provided yet eflow continued to pursue an action destined to fail. Eflow need to prove he did it not the other way around, so if a reasonable and provable evidence is given then action should end immediately with no further cost / time to the other party.

How does that allow him to recover for his time? Unless he can prove malicious prosecution, he will only be entitled to costs if he has employed a solicitor or outlay if he defends himself.

oholly121

amadangomor wrote: »

How many of the 75 are not attempts to defraud but people who just give in because of E flow's heavy handed tactics?

This is a very sound point

They literally sent me 400 letters that was after sending in all correspondents and evidence

They just don't want to know i would imagine it cost them more to post the letters to me and escalate this to their legal team rather than reviewing my evidence and coming to a reasonable understanding

Its an automated racket that they just don't want to know or don't care less ?

indie warrior

oholly121 wrote: »

No they are a real law firm I think its pierce and Fitzgibbons based in kerry

That is correct

indie warrior

indie warrior wrote: »

I will do that, my employer has no problem giving me a letter to say I was in office all day that day,
The difficult part is trying to get the guard who I initially spoke to, they did give me the incident number, the solicitor doesn't care , they are telling me what the guards should have done, really should I be chasing the guards to te them how they should be dealing with this? Very frustrating

You have a crime reference number, just quote it in any garda station and they can give you a report.

I have personally never heard of anything 'being sent to traffic' nor do I know how or why this would be a thing. Traffic have the same PULSE system as every other Garda. When you are there, ask them to request a warning placed on your car including the difference on the plate between the real and the cloned plate. That means if the reg gets flagged in an ANPR system the Gardai will know theres an issue however that will also mean you will probable get stopped as well so have your ID and a copy of the registration papers with you.

lawrencesummers

You should put a sticker on your car, And sometime noticeable on the windscreen like one of those IRL stickers, and document the date you put it on, so that if it continues to happen you have evidence of a difference between the cars.

When you get another fine reply that it’s not you by registered mail, notify the Gardai ask them to investigate and then ignore everything Until you get a court date.

Explain it to the judge, and it will be thrown out.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should put a sticker on your car, And sometime noticeable on the windscreen like one of those IRL stickers, and document the date you put it on, so that if it continues to happen you have evidence of a difference between the cars.

When you get another fine reply that it’s not you by registered mail, notify the Gardai ask them to investigate and then ignore everything Until you get a court date.

Explain it to the judge, and it will be thrown out.

The first part is a good idea.

Dont do the second part. Not a Judge in the land appreciates a layman arriving in with an indifferent attitude who ignored contact.

Silent Running

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You have a crime reference number, just quote it in any garda station and they can give you a report.

I have personally never heard of anything 'being sent to traffic' nor do I know how or why this would be a thing. Traffic have the same PULSE system as every other Garda. When you are there, ask them to request a warning placed on your car. That means if the reg gets flagged in an ANPR system the Gardai will know theres an issue however that will also mean you will probable get stopped as well so have your ID and a copy of the registration papers with you.

The Garda Traffic thing came from Eflow in my son's case. They insisted that the report was sent to the traffic division in the Phoenix park. IIRC (and I may not) they said that there was a section there that dealt specifically with cloned cars.

We did what was asked of us and it all went away.

lawrencesummers

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Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The first part is a good idea.

Dont do the second part. Not a Judge in the land appreciates a layman arriving in with an indifferent attitude who ignored contact.

Sending a registered letter explaining it is the opposite of ignoring contact.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

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Sending a registered letter explaining it is the opposite of ignoring contact.

A letter saying 'Im innocent, jog on' and then walking into court a year later with the same letter. OK, not going to argue with you. You think thats the way to go, I disagree.

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

The Garda Traffic thing came from Eflow in my son's case. They insisted that the report was sent to the traffic division in the Phoenix park. IIRC (and I may not) they said that there was a section there that dealt specifically with cloned cars.

We did what was asked of us and it all went away.

Fair enough, new to me and they arent in Phoenix park but maybe there is such a unit

lawrencesummers

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

A letter saying 'Im innocent, jog on' and then walking into court a year later with the same letter. OK, not going to argue with you. You think thats the way to go, I disagree.

I wouldn’t use the phrase jog on, but explaining what happening, referencing the Gardai investigation and laying out all the details by registered mail is plenty, you can keep sending the letter for every fine if you want.

kennethsmyth

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How does that allow him to recover for his time? Unless he can prove malicious prosecution, he will only be entitled to costs if he has employed a solicitor or outlay if he defends himself.

He could take a separate action against eflow for harrassment.