Reporting driver behaviour to Dublin Bus

Paul Kiernan

I don't know whether I should be reporting this? It's on the steep descent into Howth village. On video it doesn't look too bad but at the time it was intimidating and frightening. I nearly fell off when I looked back and saw how close he was. He then backed off a bit but considering he was still doing about 40km/h he felt very close all the way down the hill. I would normally slow down more on that stretch of road but I was afraid to!

Link - https://streamable.com/z7meu6

hurikane

Is it your video, or is that you in the red?

Paul Kiernan

hurikane wrote: »

Is it your video, or is that you in the red?

I'm in Red!

Cyrus

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I don't know whether I should be reporting this? It's on the steep descent into Howth village. On video it doesn't look too bad but at the time it was intimidating and frightening. I nearly fell off when I looked back and saw how close he was. He then backed off a bit but considering he was still doing about 40km/h he felt very close all the way down the hill. I would normally slow down more on that stretch of road but I was afraid to!

Link - https://streamable.com/z7meu6

What would be the basis of your report ?

Wishbone Ash

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

... It's on the steep descent into Howth village. ...

The most disturbing part of that footage is the descending on the hoods. Each to his/her own but I would immediately feel unsafe and insecure in descending in such an upright position on a steep gradient.

From the vantage point of the camera, it difficult to tell how close the bus is.

sparrowcar

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I don't know whether I should be reporting this? It's on the steep descent into Howth village. On video it doesn't look too bad but at the time it was intimidating and frightening. I nearly fell off when I looked back and saw how close he was. He then backed off a bit but considering he was still doing about 40km/h he felt very close all the way down the hill. I would normally slow down more on that stretch of road but I was afraid to!

Link - https://streamable.com/z7meu6

If he was doing 40kph and you felt that was fast and you would normally slow down on that stretch then it was a poor decision to overtake the bus like you did. A bus would safely come down that hill a 50kph so why were you in a rush to pass him at the lights?

Take it on the chin and move on.

Ferris

On my daily bike commute. Everyone is going too fast there for Howth Village tbh. I do it myself and I've had to cop on, there are far too many unseen hazards for a bus to be over 30kph and a bike to be going much faster.

On that junction I have seen roadbikes overtaking moving cars on the wrong side of the road at 60kph+ which was crazy. Lots of lads chasing KOM's maybe?

Tombo2001

Ferris wrote: »

On my daily bike commute. Everyone is going too fast there for Howth Village tbh. I do it myself and I've had to cop on, there are far too many unseen hazards for a bus to be over 30kph and a bike to be going much faster.

On that junction I have seen roadbikes overtaking moving cars on the wrong side of the road at 60kph+ which was crazy. Lots of lads chasing KOM's maybe?

Would agree with this 100%.

On a wider point though - Howth village is just about the only 'village' in Dublin that a cyclist could enter at 50k an hour. Lets not forget thar Sam Bennett got up to a max speed of 58k on the Champs Elysses.

On the other hand, its routine for Dublin Bus to drive through Drumcondra, Glasnevin, Raheny, Terenure, Crumlin.......take your pick....at 50k an hour. For vehicles this size in residential areas, its just way too fast.

But....... its within the law.

magicbastarder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

On a wider point though - Howth village is just about the only 'village' in Dublin that a cyclist could enter at 50k an hour.

also the Naul.

is_that_so

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Would agree with this 100%.

On a wider point though - Howth village is just about the only 'village' in Dublin that a cyclist could enter at 50k an hour. Lets not forget thar Sam Bennett got up to a max speed of 58k on the Champs Elysses.

On the other hand, its routine for Dublin Bus to drive through Drumcondra, Glasnevin, Raheny, Terenure, Crumlin.......take your pick....at 50k an hour. For vehicles this size in residential areas, its just way too fast.

But....... its within the law.

Have done that and a whole lot more. It's a crazy hill so worrying about what you're doing and lots of brakes are the order of the day. As for DB, 50kph is the speed limit in most of those places you've listed.

Tombo2001

Oscar Madison wrote: »

And it would have been asking too much for ye to have either stopped or moved in to let him pass? More self entitled cyclists on our roads!

Good man Oscar - your inaugural post on the cycling forum - though I see from your post history that in the past you've sneered at runners, cyclists and people using public transport, while offering sympathy to a driver that was given penalty points.

They are everybody's roads pal, not just yours.

Tombo2001

is_that_so wrote: »

Have done that and a whole lot more. It's a crazy hill so worrying about what you're doing and lots of brakes are the order of the day. As for DB, 50kph is the speed limit in most of those places you've listed.

I know its the speed limit, and I think its too fast for vehicles of that size in heavily built up areas. Especially the tendency of (most) drivers to see it as a target rather than a limit.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Good man Oscar - your inaugural post on the cycling forum - though I see from your post history that in the past you've sneered at runners, cyclists and people using public transport, while offering sympathy to a driver that was given penalty points.

They are everybody's roads pal, not just yours.

It is everybody's road to use but it doesn't give you the right to impede others progress on it! A little courtesy is all!

Godeatsboogers

Did the bus driver even try and overtake the cyclist? I thought the cyclist could have been in towards the kirb a little bit more. I did also think the bus driver could have been a little further back from the cyclist.

I used to deliver bread 6 mornings a week and I'd be in a similar situation often, I always gave the cyclist/cyclists plenty of room until there was a save place to pass. That bus driver seemed eager to get pass, but I dont think it's a reportable issue.

magicbastarder

Oscar Madison wrote: »

And it would have been asking too much for ye to have either stopped or moved in to let him pass? More self entitled cyclists on our roads!

hello and welcome to the cycling forum.
please read the charter, especially in reference to point 8. you are welcome to post here as long as you keep that in mind.

Paul Kiernan

Weepsie wrote: »

the guy in red basically didn't carry their momentum at all and freewheeled.

That's a 10% descent leading into a built up area with pedestrians milling around and cars pulling out. Anyone who put the hammer down there would need a bit of a talking to.

North of 32

I can certainly see that it would be very intimidating. While the bus is much too close in the beginning, it did back off.

I've never been on that road but it looks tricky to descend - lots of potential hazards that are made worse by the natural speed brought on by the steepness of the hill. I personally would not have overtaken the bus so that I could just take it easy. It seems weird to overtake when you know you want to slow down.

Hope you're OK. Wouldn't report this though based on what I can see in the video.

magicbastarder

North of 32 wrote: »

I've never been on that road but it looks tricky to descend

it takes the fun off it. usually when i do a loop of howth, i climb from the village side and descend on the road down past the cemetery, cos you've got way better visibility and aren't descending into a village.

Stark

North of 32 wrote: »

I can certainly see that it would be very intimidating. While the bus is much too close in the beginning, it did back off.

If I was in a car and a bus/truck was inches from my bumper at that speed coming down that hill, I'd feel very uncomfortable. Let alone on a bike.

Oberkon

I found the bus drivers out there usually ok and are used to cyclists
I’ve stopped descending into the village in Howth , I used to live out there -it’s got more dangerous over the years - Just so many things can come at you . I’ve seen way to many close calls.

Last time I cycled down that hill the cyclist ahead of me broke the red lights and was close to creaming a car coming from the left .

I tend to cycle into the village and Up the hill
It’s safer . Howth is fantastic for cycling if you keep your wits about you and avoid busy days .

There’s a blind spot coming down the Hill towards the cemetery where traffic tend to pull out without looking properly or seeing you .

CramCycle

Neither the cyclist in Red or the bus driver do anything smart here. Overtaking on the outside coming upto a red light and coming through when oyu have no idea what could be comign past in front of the bus is poor road craft. Nonetheless the driver was too close to the wheel of the cyclist at one point although corrects himself quickly

Oscar Madison wrote: »

And it would have been asking too much for ye to have either stopped or moved in to let him pass? More self entitled cyclists on our roads!

Thats just nonsense, the cyclist were at a speed as fast as traffic should be moving, possibly a bit faster even. The bus is pulling out for cars parked stupidly at the side.

is_that_so wrote: »

Have done that and a whole lot more. It's a crazy hill so worrying about what you're doing and lots of brakes are the order of the day. As for DB, 50kph is the speed limit in most of those places you've listed.

The limit is correect, not the actual speed you should be driving at in some cases though

Oscar Madison wrote: »

It is everybody's road to use but it doesn't give you the right to impede others progress on it! A little courtesy is all!

No one was impeded.

Godeatsboogers wrote: »

Did the bus driver didnt even try and overtake the cyclist? I thought the cyclist could have been in towards the kirb a little bit more. I did also think the bus driver could have been a little further back from the cyclist.

I used to deliver bread 6 mornings a week and I'd be in a similar situation often, I always gave the cyclist/cyclists plenty of room until there was a save place to pass. That bus driver seemed eager to get pass, but I don't think it's a reportable issue.

Pretty much, the driver got too close at one point where the guy in red looked like he was about to lose control of himself but other than that, I seen no attempt at an overtake.

Ferris

Obvious point - the speed limit is 50kph no the target for the DB. As a bus passenger 50kph through the village feels way to rapid.

Cars exiting Nashville road have very limited visibility uphill, it is often that they will pull out without seeing a fast bike.
There are two bus stops, 1 we see at the church and another outside the old credit union, that the bus driver may need to stop at.
Also the main junction in the village is notorious for cars failing to give way.
Add to that cars pulling out of spaces / pedestrians using / not using the pedestrian crossings.

I reiterate, 50kph is too fast downhill there - bus or bike - you cant argue with physics.

km991148

Weepsie wrote: »

Guy in red and bus driver probably both need a bit of a talking to.

From the face of it without the full video, it seems that there's not much situational awareness there to be doing that overtake at what seemed like red light on a busy road downhill.

CramCycle wrote: »

Neither the cyclist in Red or the bus driver do anything smart here. Overtaking on the outside coming upto a red light and coming through when oyu have no idea what could be comign past in front of the bus is poor road craft.

These two and that is it, thread closed.

Cyclist cop on a bit and read the road ahead. Bus driver was a bit close (but in this case could have been avoided by #1).

ThewhiteJesus

I've never cycled on this road, but i have had similar experiences like this with bus's in dublin city where i work. It's very intimidating when there is a bus right behind you, especially if you have obstacles in front of you aswell, but i'd imagine it's tough for a bus driver too.
I actually changed my route and my cycle is now stress free, not sure if this is possible for you op ?
Happy you're ok though and like others have said i wouldn't report i'd just try move on.

Diemos

I think that's a reportable offence.
The driver is way too close for safety, even when he backs off, he's too close.

I agree with earlier comments, it was a foolish overtake by the cyclists in the 1st place, but when you drive a vehicle that size, carrying passengers through an urban area your driving should be beyond reproach. This driver adopted a petty, bullying and bloody dangerous driving approach, its inexcusable.

Lurching

40 km/h on a bike in a built up area feels pretty quick, but it doesn't feel that fast in a bus.
I doubt the bus driver felt he was doing much wrong.
If you're worried that the driver could have flattened you if you'd come off at that speed, perhaps you were also moving too quickly?

From my perspective, both weren't driving / cycling defensively.
Not sure why the first reaction is always to report these things. You could have had a calm chat with the driver at the next bus stop.

Cyrus

Weepsie wrote: »

It's also a solid white line, so overtaking just shouldn't be done anyway there.

thats a fair point, driver did get a bit close for a short period but you shouldnt have passed in the first place, and it would have been safer for you not to.

Tombo2001

Driver definitely got quite close, key point regarding the overtake is whether the driver indicated out - I wouldnt see a problem with the overtake unless the bus was indicating out. Not really visible on the film.

Thargor

Lurching wrote: »

If you're worried that the driver could have flattened you if you'd come off at that speed, perhaps you were also moving too quickly?

That makes no sense.

CramCycle

km991148 wrote: »

These two and that is it, thread closed.

Cyclist cop on a bit and read the road ahead. Bus driver was a bit close (but in this case could have been avoided by #1).

One does not excuse the other

Pawwed Rig

There is little point in reporting the driver ime. Nothing will ever come of it unless the Gardai were involved and there was no actual injury. I have reported drivers a couple of times before and never even received a response.

GT89

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is little point in reporting the driver ime. Nothing will ever come of it unless the Gardai were involved and there was no actual injury. I have reported drivers a couple of times before and never even received a response.

Not true all complaints to any CIE company are investigated and looked into. Did you take note of route number, time of incident, direction, fleet number which can be found at the front and back of every bus (eg. SG298 or AX625) or reg plate. Just because you did not hear back does not mean your complaint was not investigated.

Also what happens to driver in question will never be disclosed due to GDPR. The results of an internal investigation will not be disclosed. If the driver was dismissed, made go on a training course, warned about his/her behaviour or was found to be in the right is between the company, the driver and possibly the drivers trade union.

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

These two and that is it, thread closed.

Cyclist cop on a bit and read the road ahead. Bus driver was a bit close (but in this case could have been avoided by #1).

CramCycle wrote: »

One does not excuse the other

Of course not - but better cycling (driving, whatever) involves avoiding sticky situations in the first place.

Why put yourself in that position?

The poster is considering taking action by reporting to DB - fine go for it - but separably there is more immediate (and effective) action that can be taken and that to look at their own behaviour as well.


(EDIT - I re read my original post - it was meant as a short summary of the other posts, not linking driver and cyclist behaviour or or trying to show cause/effect or victim blame etc).

AlphaDelta1

Not much wrong there. The problem with reporting this type of incident to Dublin Bus is it becomes a problem when genuine reports are made of actual dangerous driving and they will be thinking "ffs cyclists again complaining".

Paul Kiernan

The general concensus seems to revolve around my actions.

Because I chose to cycle to the front of a row of stationary traffic at a red light (which I usually do by the way), that this somehow entitles the professional driver of a Dublin Bus, with responsibility for his passengers as well as pedestrians and other road users, to set himself up as judge, jury (and potentially executioner) and set out to administer justice as he sees fit.

the boss of me

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

The general concensus seems to revolve around my actions.

Because I chose to cycle to the front of a row of stationary traffic at a red light (which I usually do by the way), that this somehow entitles the professional driver of a Dublin Bus, with responsibility for his passengers as well as pedestrians and other road users, to set himself up as judge, jury (and potentially executioner) and set out to administer justice as he sees fit.

Nothing happened.. grow a pair and get over it.

Paul Kiernan

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The most disturbing part of that footage is the descending on the hoods.

When descending behind someone it is better to adopt an upright position or you'll tend to quickly gain on them. It's either that or sit on the brakes or take a completely different line to them. You only need to be in the drops on a technical descent, which that certainly isn't, or for heavy braking.

Sorry it disturbed you more than the 10 tonnes of metal hurtling down a 10% incline about 3 feet behind me at one point.

hurikane

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

The general concensus seems to revolve around my actions.

Because I chose to cycle to the front of a row of stationary traffic at a red light (which I usually do by the way), that this somehow entitles the professional driver of a Dublin Bus, with responsibility for his passengers as well as pedestrians and other road users, to set himself up as judge, jury (and potentially executioner) and set out to administer justice as he sees fit.

You did this on the wrong side of the road, at a junction, just because it’s something you usually do, it doesn’t make it right. Also there’s no point in being in the right and dead, be more careful.

Paul Kiernan

GT89 wrote: »

Not true all complaints to any CIE company are investigated and looked into. Did you take note of route number, time of incident, direction, fleet number which can be found at the front and back of every bus (eg. SG298 or AX625) or reg plate. Just because you did not hear back does not mean your complaint was not investigated.

I think I should report it. Do you know how I can lodge a complaint and supply the video?

Paul Kiernan

hurikane wrote: »

You did this on the wrong side of the road, at a junction, just because it’s something you usually do, it doesn’t make it right. Also there’s no point in being in the right and dead, be more careful.

Why don't you elaborate on whatever point you're making here. If you're saying that the bus driver's behaviour was as a result of me illegally overtaking him then that's all the more reason why he shouldn't be driving a bus.

whippet

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

The general concensus seems to revolve around my actions.

Because I chose to cycle to the front of a row of stationary traffic at a red light (which I usually do by the way), that this somehow entitles the professional driver of a Dublin Bus, with responsibility for his passengers as well as pedestrians and other road users, to set himself up as judge, jury (and potentially executioner) and set out to administer justice as he sees fit.

your original post was asking for opinions about if you should report this etc --- but judging by this post you weren't really asking for opinions but just looking for support for your opinions.

feel free to contact AGS and Dublin Bus - that is your right - but as you can see here not everyone will agree with your version of being Judge, Jury and Executioner.

Tombo2001

There are a lot of cyclists on this thread, and most would feel you were wrong to overtake at a red light; can only speak for myself but I would never do that.

By all means report if you wish, but in the interest of fairness you would also have to answer for this.

To be honest - the overtaking at the Red is more clear cut than the other - the camera is too far away, for example the argument could be made that the cyclist slowed rather than the bus acclerated.

TheHouseIRL

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

The general concensus seems to revolve around my actions.

Because I chose to cycle to the front of a row of stationary traffic at a red light (which I usually do by the way), that this somehow entitles the professional driver of a Dublin Bus, with responsibility for his passengers as well as pedestrians and other road users, to set himself up as judge, jury (and potentially executioner) and set out to administer justice as he sees fit.

So, essentially, you MGIF.

Happydays2020

I have twice reported bus drivers (once as a cyclist and once as a passenger).

My complaint as a cyclist was a bus driver behaving aggressively in a bus lane including beeping and uncomfortably close. I did pull in and then he stopped to shout at me “you should be cycling on the ****ing path. this is a bus lane”. Bus Éireann got back to me to indicate they had reviewed the footage and that he would receive training and they take cyclist safety very seriously. I got the sense he was a bit of a bollix and they were glad of the complaint.

I probably could have reported many other times for going through red lights endangering pedestrians but I don’t have the energy to follow up on everything.

LillySV

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Why don't you elaborate on whatever point you're making here. If you're saying that the bus driver's behaviour was as a result of me illegally overtaking him then that's all the more reason why he shouldn't be driving a bus.

self entitled cyclists ... there should be some proper fines issued for the entitled cyclists who think they can cycle through red lights, pay no caution or care for other road users

hurikane

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Why don't you elaborate on whatever point you're making here. If you're saying that the bus driver's behaviour was as a result of me illegally overtaking him then that's all the more reason why he shouldn't be driving a bus.

Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I think from your posting and the video, we can determine that you shouldn’t be on the road.

r439z5ifwt8soq

I'd say that was pretty intimidating, especially coming down a steep descent like that one. The bus driver should have given you a bit of space to be safe.

But I think your positioning could have been better. If you're just about to go down a steep descent and want to make sure you avoid danger on it, it would be better to stay behind the bus, instead of overtaking it and sitting just in front of it for the descent.

You could report the driver and that's fair, but you were a little reckless too. Even though you're the vulnerable road user in that situation, you can't overlook it.

km991148

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Why don't you elaborate on whatever point you're making here. If you're saying that the bus driver's behaviour was as a result of me illegally overtaking him then that's all the more reason why he shouldn't be driving a bus.

Don't be so defensive here, it's not an attack, nor is it linking driver behaviour with your behaviour. They are both pretty poor, for different reasons.

If we could speak to the driver, he would probably be told to back off.

That can't happen, so instead, people are appealing to you to cycle a little more safely, for your own safety.
You presented evidence where you speared to be oblivious to the events leading to your problematic experience. Even if the bus was a few meters back, it's probably still going to end badly if you fell off. So people are just saying read the road ahead a bit.

eeeee

Mod note: And that's enough of this now, OP you have gotten several answers and opinions on the situation.
New posters please pay a visit to our charter here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056113049 and post 8 in particular.