Paypal dispute over delivery

dubbrin

I sold an item recently and even though the tracked delivery states delivered Paypal have received a claim from the recipient. They funds are on hold pending investigation by PP. I have a tracking number with confirmed status as delivered. Where do I stand? I'm hearing horror stories of PP siding with recipients with even the most vague legitimacy of a claim while the seller has POD and other info to strengthen their defence. Anyone have any direct experience with this?

Ten Pin

It depends on the courier/post persons record of delivery. If it's an illegible scrawl or a box tick that the buyer thinks they can dispute then it's the couriers responsibility for the alleged non delivery. So if PayPal rule against you, you'll have to chase the courier/An Post.

As an example, I downloaded a tracked item delivery record for an item delivered by an post and there was a scrawl shown in signature box. AFAIK since covid, an post and couriers didn't require a handwritten signature for recorded delivery (might still be the case) so there's a loophole there for someone to exploit.

CalamariFritti

I had first hand experience only recently only from the other end as a buyer.

It was either a courier error or theft but there was a delivery record but no delivery. Not to my address or me anyway, I didnt receive the item. Seller was courteous and all but he didnt want to get stung for it either and wanted to wait for courier investigation. Took ages and eventually I opened a PayPal case simply because it was my only leverage.

Paypal case took ages too but they decided in favour of the seller simply based on the delivery record.

Thankfully once the courier report came back and courier insurance kicked in the seller refunded me anyway but I was livid with Paypal. They didnt care the delivery record didnt show my address nor was there my signature. Buyer protection my arse.

I guess from your point of view thats a good outcome but I wasn't happy and I could have gotten stung unjustly for a few hundred.

dubbrin

Both good points on the POD as these days it's hard to prove anything even with the confirmation from the carrier. I've seen plenty discussions over parcels dropped to doorsteps.

I'm only looking for the decent outcome and have been trying to resolve it with the carrier/buyer. Not much from the buyer though in terms or trying to investigate. I've a case opened with the carrier.

My worry is that PP will jump to a decision without all avenues being investigated.

One thing for sure, there's quite an amount of exposure for both parties even though payment is protected "Buyer protection my arse." and delivery is meant to be tracked and confirmed securely "AFAIK since covid, an post and couriers didn't require a handwritten signature for recorded delivery (might still be the case)"

Time to wise up and cover myself for any future transactions I think....

CalamariFritti

Agreed especially with actual signatures not happening atm (not sure if still case) its a legal minefield.

Ten Pin

From memory, couriers and an post tracking is almost instant so that if you monitor the tracking page, you can then send a polite email to the buyer and let them know that tracking indicates delivery has been made and ask them to confirm either way. Even better if you had their phone number and call or text them (record the call).

dubbrin

Ten Pin wrote: »

From memory, couriers and an post tracking is almost instant so that if you monitor the tracking page, you can then send a polite email to the buyer and let them know that tracking indicates delivery has been made and ask them to confirm either way. Even better if you had their phone number and call or text them (record the call).

That's some good advice right there. Might not be always practical, but would certainly give good confidence in the chain of events. Back to my concern, would a dispute /case take that sort of evidence into account....? I'm worried not (which itself is very unreasonable but I think may be the case with some online platforms....)

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Agreed especially with actual signatures not happening atm (not sure if still case) its a legal minefield.

I can't remember the last time I had to physically sign for a delivery even before Covid packets are usually scanned, even registered stuff I would expect to have to sign for is just posted through the letterbox.

Just this week I have received two deliveries via Fastway where the courier was driving a private car and dropped the package at my door, rang the doorbell and walked away without even waiting to see if I answered the door - both marked "signed for" deliveries when I checked online.

CalamariFritti

That is a problem with high value item deliveries as I just experienced first hand a couple of months ago.

dubbrin

It's going to have to come to an end, where does the liability start/stop......

dubbrin

OmegaGene wrote: »

any update ?

Nada.... estimated date of response has been moved out twice now... all the while I can't access the funds

dubbrin

OmegaGene wrote: »

the paypal disputes are given extra time due to the pandemic and the funds being frozen are just part of the process so do not take it personally
who did you use to deliver ?

Sent by An Post registered. There's a case open with them which is ongoing as well but I don't hold much hope

In the last fortnight I've had four deliveries from three different couriers + An Post. All left on the wall or at the door. I was in when two called but they didn't hang around. We live on a cul de sac, no real traffic other than neighbours so it doesn't bother me as much as it can. This is going to become a real issue as the convenience of drop it and leg it is now engrained in alot of delivery drivers minds IMO, regardless of covid.

I'm going to rethink how I send anything in future.

Ten Pin's advice is decent, but then if there's an issue you have to go through the process without surity of winning either....

Ten Pin wrote: »

From memory, couriers and an post tracking is almost instant so that if you monitor the tracking page, you can then send a polite email to the buyer and let them know that tracking indicates delivery has been made and ask them to confirm either way. Even better if you had their phone number and call or text them (record the call).

My PP case was resolved in my favour today. They quote the delivery information/tracking number as enough to put it in my favour. I've since google maps'ed the recipient address to see if there's something funny about it and there doesn't seem to be. I'm not going to over think it...