BASF Walltite

keryl

Hi there,

I've read through the forms regarding pumped cavities in regards beads and walltite although there isn't a huge amount of posts on Walltite except for an Airtightness post which was very detailed from 2018 I think.

There seems to be more interest in beading, probably because of the price difference, close to double the price.
There's the issue of cracking so it's recommended not to install after plastering. The recommended cavity to fill is 150mm and then just a standard plastering of the walls.

What are peoples opinions on it, does the 200mm beaded cavity perform just as well?

Biker1

While on paper the U- value of a wall with 150mm of Walltite or 200mm of bonded bead will be the same the fact that you get a superior level of airtightness with the Walltite means there is far less heat loss overall.

Lumen

There's more interest in beads not only because they're cheaper, but because they're NSAI certified, which Walltite is not (last time I checked). Presumably that also means SEAI grants don't apply, which further pushes out the cost difference.

An insured professional would be a bit mad to recommend a non certified product that's more expensive and carries certain risks like cracking internal plaster or corroding wall ties.

sydthebeat

Lumen wrote: »

There's more interest in beads not only because they're cheaper, but because they're NSAI certified, which Walltite is not (last time I checked). Presumably that also means SEAI grants don't apply, which further pushes out the cost difference.

An insured professional would be a bit mad to recommend a non certified product that's more expensive and carries certain risks like cracking internal plaster or corroding wall ties.

https://www.nsai.ie/images/uploads/certification-agrement/IAB130377_BASF_Walltite_2020.pdf

Lumen

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.nsai.ie/images/uploads/certification-agrement/IAB130377_BASF_Walltite_2020.pdf

Thanks Syd.

So although the PDF filename says 2020, the date on the cert is 2013, and the cert number is the same as the one I posted in my previous long post:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108518928

I wrote in that thread:

Lumen wrote:

This cert slightly pre-dates the BBA certification. It also (irritatingly) isn't very specific about which product is certified, only "BASF Walltite Spray foam insulation". In any case, it DOESN'T cover retrofit cavity installation. Maybe this is because only CL 100 was submitted for certification.

So it's kind of the same document, but at the bottom of of cert on page 18:



"Product specification updated to reflect manufacturer's Declaration of Performance"

Is this update significant?

keryl, what application are you looking at exactly? i.e. new build vs retrofit, what kind of wall structure?

edit: I found and attached the OLD cert I downloaded in 2018 so can compare with latest (not right now though).

sydthebeat

Lumen wrote: »

Thanks Syd.

So although the PDF filename says 2020, the date on the cert is 2013, and the cert number is the same as the one I posted in my previous long post:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108518928


Is this update significant?

keryl, what application are you looking at exactly? i.e. new build vs retrofit, what kind of wall structure?

my bad luman... apologies

i remember this coming up previously and recalled something about it being certified for cavity use... so i linked to the NSAI cert without reading through it.

that cert doesnt cover cavity wall installations... but the BBA version does.

https://walltite.basf.ie/files/download/47-BBA-Certification---WALLTITE-CV-100-Cavity-Wall-Insulation.pdf

however the question is now how applicable is a british agrement cert after Brexit ???

Lumen

OK, a couple of things.

The new cert is completely rewritten, it's not a simple update. The most important bits are:

This Certificate relates to BASF Walltite Spray foam insulation. Walltite is a spray-applied expanding polyurethane closed cell insulation foam
...
The product is used as a thermal insulation, and
contributes to thermal performance of:
• Timber frame walls
• Masonry walls (drylining)
• Pitched roof constructions with breathable roof underlay and where a ventilation space exists under roof tiles as provided by timber battens
• Pitched roof constructions with un-breathable roof underlay and where a ventilation space is provided between the insulation and the underside of the underlay
• Hybrid roofs where insulation is place along the pitch and at ceiling level
• The top side of attic floors where the attic space is non-habitable
• Flat timber roof constructions
• Suspended timber ground floors where loading is not applied to the product
• Concrete ground-floor constructions

You can see the important word is SPRAY, and that is consistent will all of these applications - even the timber frame cavity application is built up from the inside in layers by spraying against a breathable membrane attached to the outer sheathing, so it can't be retrofitted. This certification is essentially the same as before, it's for the product that used to be called "CL 100".

The "CV 100" product which is poured or pumped in for cavity retrofit is NOT covered by this cert, and I can find no other NSAI cert under product name "Walltite".

So unless anyone knows better, the advice is the same as before: don't use Walltite for cavity retrofit if you require NSAI certification.

I do not know why BASF have not secured NSAI certification for the poured product. Either they tried and failed or they didn't bother.

I am not a construction professional, just a curious consumer, so this advice is worth nothing. :pac:

sydthebeat

Lumen wrote: »

I am not a construction professional, just a curious consumer, so this advice is worth nothing. :pac:

not at all....

if only every consumer did similar due diligence on construction products and services, then the sector would have a lot less of a "cowboy" element.

keryl

Thanks very much for the replies.

It's a new build and concrete block cavity.

dathi

sydthebeat wrote: »

however the question is now how applicable is a british agrement cert after Brexit ???

https://www.bbacerts.co.uk/blog/post/update-on-bba-certification-post-brexit

they reached an agreement with European technical assessments to migrate their certs across to eta

Lumen

keryl wrote: »

It's a new build and concrete block cavity.

What does your engineer/architect recommend?

IMO the decision ought to be taken in the context of the overall design and construction, including "idiot proofing" factors.

For instance, if I was going to pump in foam, and risk having corrosive pockets around wall ties, I would want to be using non-ferrous wall ties, e.g. GFRP. That way there's no risk to the structural integrity if moisture collects around the ties.

I'd expect that if you have a cavity wide enough to meet insulation targets without extra insulation on the inside of the external walls, then Walltite is going to be extremely expensive. And why would you bother, if you are going to achieve air tightness using other more conventional approaches e.g. parge coat on the blocks, and then the beads will work fine. It's overkill.

Anyway, maybe there's enough here for you to have the right conversations with whoever's professional indemnity insurance covers your build.

Metric Tensor

dathi wrote: »

https://www.bbacerts.co.uk/blog/post/update-on-bba-certification-post-brexit

they reached an agreement with European technical assessments to migrate their certs across to eta

Be careful about which certs you are referencing. From that page it appears BBA offer a number of services:

1. Notified body for CE Certification
2. Notified body for ETA (European Technical Approval)
3. Issuing their own "BBA Cert"

Item 1 and 2 can be solved by various EU agreements because they relate to the issuing of EU certificates.

Item 3 is purely writing a "cert" under their own authority. So it's standing is very different and cannot be changed into an EU form because there's no such thing.

However there's no reason why Brexit should affect the content of the certificate and as far as I know TGD D does not currently convey any special status on BBA certs* so to that end you could argue that their status will be the same as it ever was ..... for what that's worth.


*I will double check this when not on my phone.