4 Bay Slatted Shed Grant Spec Cost

farmer2018

What is the current cost of building a 4 bay slatted shed with 14'6 slat and a creep with 60% grant? Is 15k a bay accurate?

diesel druggie

Hi there I recently constructed a shed with no grant as I said never again would I do a grant shed. Anyway here's my info for you

It's four bay with a 16 ft creep, and 14'6" slats

Labour at tank pour floor, tie steel, shutter walls.
Slats 14' 6"
Steel for tank re bar
Steel for shed
Sheeting 0.55 grant spec
Barriers all locking
Back and gable walls
Concrete for tank and gable walls
Concrete for apron and creep
Additional Labour

I'll fill in prices tomorrow when I have invoices but I know it's going to be definitely less than 40k

farmer2018

diesel druggie wrote: »

Hi there I recently constructed a shed with no grant as I said never again would I do a grant shed. Anyway here's my info for you

It's four bay with a 16 ft creep, and 14'6" slats

Labour at tank pour floor, tie steel, shutter walls.
Slats 14' 6"
Steel for tank re bar
Steel for shed
Sheeting 0.55 grant spec
Barriers all locking
Back and gable walls
Concrete for tank and gable walls
Concrete for apron and creep
Additional Labour

I'll fill in prices tomorrow when I have invoices but I know it's going to be definitely less than 40k

Why wouldn't you do a grant shed again? Surely the 60% is the only way to go.

Bass Reeves

I would totally disagree about going for the grant especially if 60%is available. However you must be able to build shed to at or very near department costings. I build during the big environment scheme in 2008/2009 and came in on budget.

A 4 bay shed with creep and lie back area should be able to be build to department costings. They cost work out as follows

Shed 53k approx
Vat from it 6.3k
40% grant 18.7k
60% grant 28k

Net cost 60% grant 19k
Net cost 40% grant 28k

Biggest fault is lads not including all grant items in application. However that should not be an issue with application's done by agri consultant's.

diesel druggie

farmer2018 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you do a grant shed again? Surely the 60% is the only way to go.

1 I can do it for less than a grant aided shed at the same spec

2 No planning permission required

3 Grant is taxable as it's income when you get it

4 No deadlines I started this one in October 2018 I'm nearly done now

5 As I done it in bits now and again I didnt draw a loan for this job done it when I had surplus funds

6 Either the bank would want the grant mandated to them as far a I remember or the supplier is gone it any good that may have been in it.

7 I wouldn't have got the 60%

All above is only my view other lads may see it differently

farmer2018

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I would totally disagree about going for the grant especially if 60%is available. However you must be able to build shed to at or very near department costings. I build during the big environment scheme in 2008/2009 and came in on budget.

A 4 bay shed with creep and lie back area should be able to be build to department costings. They cost work out as follows

Shed 53k approx
Vat from it 6.3k
40% grant 18.7k
60% grant 28k

Net cost 60% grant 19k
Net cost 40% grant 28k

Biggest fault is lads not including all grant items in application. However that should not be an issue with application's done by agri consultant's.

My advisor told me approx 70k for a 4 bay ex vat.

It would be the contractor doing all the work.

What would I be looking at paying my own money when the job is finished? Including vat back.

Someyolk

diesel druggie wrote: »

1 I can do it for less than a grant aided shed at the same spec

2 No planning permission required

3 Grant is taxable as it's income when you get it

4 No deadlines I started this one in October 2018 I'm nearly done now

5 As I done it in bits now and again I didnt draw a loan for this job done it when I had surplus funds

6 Either the bank would want the grant mandated to them as far a I remember or the supplier is gone it any good that may have been in it.

7 I wouldn't have got the 60%

All above is only my view other lads may see it differently

You don’t get taxed on the grant you receive.
A neighbour recently built a four bay double shed. It looks to be Finished to an extremely high standard. Got 60% of a grant on it. It’s costing him 22k out of his pocket. It would have been less but he put mats on for pens which drive the price well up.
A grant job always pays in my opinion.

Bass Reeves

diesel druggie wrote: »

1 I can do it for less than a grant aided shed at the same spec

2 No planning permission required

3 Grant is taxable as it's income when you get it

4 No deadlines I started this one in October 2018 I'm nearly done now

5 As I done it in bits now and again I didnt draw a loan for this job done it when I had surplus funds

6 Either the bank would want the grant mandated to them as far a I remember or the supplier is gone it any good that may have been in it.

7 I wouldn't have got the 60%

All above is only my view other lads may see it differently

1 no often people who carry out non grant jobs do not cost in there own time and machinery jobs

2. Not getting planning causes issues down the line you can never apply for a grant again untill you are planning compliant. If any of that area is subject to CPO you will not be compensated. Finally you could be ordered to take it down or if pollution is a problem in your area you may be required to proof it's not from your shed

3.Grant can be deducted from capital allowances.

4 ya deadlines have to be met

5 doing bit by bit means you are not costing your own labour , time or machinery costs into the job. These can often substantially reduce the cost of a grant job when costed into the project.

6 rubbish banks much prefer if you are making repayments on a scheduled loan rather than giving a split loan to cover grant and a remaining Lian to cover the rest. This is subject to you not having excess borrowings

7 both grants should come in substantially below not grant job unless specs are reduced. The only difference I ever really saw on costs was sheeting. The CE stamp costs extra. However if similar spec is followed on rest of shed there is little savings unless you intend to do a cash job. You may save a bit on labour using lads that have not got tax clearance certs but these often tend to be cowboy's anyway

Who2

15k approx for shed.
4.5k for slats
1500 for steel
1500 for digging and back filling
5k for concrete for tank
5k for labour for tank
Another 10k for back walls , gates, barriers and drinkers and lights should cover the most of it.
Still a long way off 70k

farmer2018

Someyolk wrote: »

You don’t get taxed on the grant you receive.
A neighbour recently built a four bay double shed. It looks to be Finished to an extremely high standard. Got 60% of a grant on it. It’s costing him 22k out of his pocket. It would have been less but he put mats on for pens which drive the price well up.
A grant job always pays in my opinion.

What did the shed cost in total?

Someyolk

farmer2018 wrote: »

What did the shed cost in total?

Round 55 I think before he put the mats on.

Bass Reeves

farmer2018 wrote: »

My advisor told me approx 70k for a 4 bay ex vat.

What would I be looking at paying my own money when the job is finished? Including vat back.

You can end up.paying anything for a shed if you are soft enough. If that advisor recommends any builders I go looking elsewhere. Builders that do the complete job charge 15-25% extra for that service. Subcontracting is usually the cheapest bit you need your ducks in a row.

Grant is set to fixed costs so if you pay 40-50-60-70-80k grant remain the same. If you pay 70k for this shed Vat will be about 8.4k. Grant at 60% would be about 28k no matter if you pay 40 or 80k for shed. At 70k net of grant and vat shed will cost you 34k

Someyolk

farmer2018 wrote: »

My advisor told me approx 70k for a 4 bay ex vat.

It would be the contractor doing all the work.

What would I be looking at paying my own money when the job is finished? Including vat back.

He is well over estimating at that imo. The shed I am on about is two 4 bay tanks. These are rough figures but the tanks cost round 25k including slats, labour etc. The shed was 18k (galvanised). 3 k to get it erected but he had a teleporter Of his own and he helped the two lads put it up. 4K bought the barriers, dividing gates drinkers etc and the rest was concrete for passage way etc.
Built a few sheds here over the years and some lads try and rob you. You need to shop about.

farmer2018

I thought that sounded way too high. The plan is to get a separate contractor for concrete and erecting the shed, I will shop around for sure.

josephsoap

farmer2018 wrote: »

What is the current cost of building a 4 bay slatted shed with 14'6 slat and a creep with 60% grant? Is 15k a bay accurate?

How many cows would you fit in a bay with 14’6 slat ? Would 7 be tight for feeding space ?

Bass Reeves

josephsoap wrote: »

How many cows would you fit in a bay with 14’6 slat ? Would 7 be tight for feeding space ?

It not feeding space it's the ability to lie down. A 14'6 slat with 18''toe space front and back gives a total area of 26 sq meters. The recommendation is 2.8-3 meters. If you match your cows to the bunches they are in you get 10 in most pens at least.

Then the other thing is to have dry silage as cows need less time to feed. If a cow is eating 23dm silage it will generally take her 50-70% more time to consume enough compared to 40dm+silage

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

1 no often people who carry out non grant jobs do not cost in there own time and machinery jobs

2. Not getting planning causes issues down the line you can never apply for a grant again untill you are planning compliant. If any of that area is subject to CPO you will not be compensated. Finally you could be ordered to take it down or if pollution is a problem in your area you may be required to proof it's not from your shed

3.Grant can be deducted from capital allowances.

4 ya deadlines have to be met

5 doing bit by bit means you are not costing your own labour , time or machinery costs into the job. These can often substantially reduce the cost of a grant job when costed into the project.

6 rubbish banks much prefer if you are making repayments on a scheduled loan rather than giving a split loan to cover grant and a remaining Lian to cover the rest. This is subject to you not having excess borrowings

7 both grants should come in substantially below not grant job unless specs are reduced. The only difference I ever really saw on costs was sheeting. The CE stamp costs extra. However if similar spec is followed on rest of shed there is little savings unless you intend to do a cash job. You may save a bit on labour using lads that have not got tax clearance certs but these often tend to be cowboy's anyway

I agree with most of your post and I think if you can get 60% grant it’s madness leaving it behind as it just has to work out cheaper.

However I often see the bolded bit mentioned and I always disagree, to me it makes absolutely no sense to put a cost to your own time when doing work yourself to save money as you won’t be paying yourself either way so it would be a wrong comparison.

Like we put a lot of time into doing stuff ourselves to save money but the time we spend doing it is time we have to spare so saying well if I paid myself 50 euro an hour then it might cost less to pay someone else 50 euro an hour to do it faster however you never actually pay yourself so you can’t compare the cost with actually paying someone else.

Maybe my post is confusing but I think people will understand what I mean.

Bass Reeves

Damon Abundant Fence wrote: »

I agree with most of your post and I think if you can get 60% grant it’s madness leaving it behind as it just has to work out cheaper.

However I often see the bolded bit mentioned and I always disagree, to me it makes absolutely no sense to put a cost to your own time when doing work yourself to save money as you won’t be paying yourself either way so it would be a wrong comparison.

Like we put a lot of time into doing stuff ourselves to save money but the time we spend doing it is time we have to spare so saying well if I paid myself 50 euro an hour then it might cost less to pay someone else 50 euro an hour to do it faster however you never actually pay yourself so you can’t compare the cost with actually paying someone else.

Maybe my post is confusing but I think people will understand what I mean.

I think you miss understood my point. If a lad found a non grant job put as much time and effort into a grant job it would work out away cheaper.

Often lads that pay over the top do nothing themselves. A lad putting up barriers himself drawing the muck from the digger, installing water himself etc can bring a grant job in 10-15% below grant costs. However he can now include these costs in the grant application. I know a lad that build a shed for the 60% grant money in 2008/9. He was in slightly ahead of the posse and ready to start 6-8weeks ahead of everyone else. He got the shed erected but sheeted it himself, did all the concrete work, did all the internal fitting. Wired it himself and had the electrician only there to certify. At the end it cost the money he got from the grant. His own time and machinery made up the rest of the grant cost application.

DBK1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you miss understood my point. If a lad found a non grant job put as much time and effort into a grant job it would work out away cheaper.

Often lads that pay over the top do nothing themselves. A lad putting up barriers himself drawing the muck from the digger, installing water himself etc can bring a grant job in 10-15% below grant costs. However he can now include these costs in the grant application. I know a lad that build a shed for the 60% grant money in 2008/9. He was in slightly ahead of the posse and ready to start 6-8weeks ahead of everyone else. He got the shed erected but sheeted it himself, did all the concrete work, did all the internal fitting. Wired it himself and had the electrician only there to certify. At the end it cost the money he got from the grant. His own time and machinery made up the rest of the grant cost application.

Spot on Bass, my cousin and his father done the very same thing in 08 also. Back then you didn’t need to be ce certified to weld a grant shed so they made the shed themselves and done all labour for tank and shed themselves. They kept account of all their time spent and it all went in towards the grant. They ended up claiming back about the same amount as the materials cost so effectively had the shed for free.

Nox I understand what you’re saying and what you mean and in general you’re right but it’s a different scenario when it comes to a grant job as you get to claim for all of your time spent up to the dept costings. I think the rate is €12.50 an hour so whether you’re welding, erecting the shed or just hanging gates, you get paid for it all.

I’ve built using grants over the years and it just makes no sense to build without a grant if its available to be got.

If materials can be purchased for less than 50% of the cost for a grant shed versus a non grant then you’d need to be seriously questioning either the quality of the materials or the integrity of the company selling the grant spec at such a high rate as there should be very little in the difference, maybe 10 to 15% max.

Bass Reeves

DBK1 wrote: »

Spot on Bass, my cousin and his father done the very same thing in 08 also. Back then you didn’t need to be ce certified to weld a grant shed so they made the shed themselves and done all labour for tank and shed themselves. They kept account of all their time spent and it all went in towards the grant. They ended up claiming back about the same amount as the materials cost so effectively had the shed for free.

Nox I understand what you’re saying and what you mean and in general you’re right but it’s a different scenario when it comes to a grant job as you get to claim for all of your time spent up to the dept costings. I think the rate is €12.50 an hour so whether you’re welding, erecting the shed or just hanging gates, you get paid for it all.

I’ve built using grants over the years and it just makes no sense to build without a grant if its available to be got.

If materials can be purchased for less than 50% of the cost for a grant shed versus a non grant then you’d need to be seriously questioning either the quality of the materials or the integrity of the company selling the grant spec at such a high rate as there should be very little in the difference, maybe 10 to 15% max.

Even now prefabricated barriers and gates are often no more than expensive than the material that goes into them. You will buy diagonal barriers for 250 each, two bar gates, adjustable heavy duty dividing gates etc. If you hang them yourself you Dave the labour on one of the sheds above the labour would be 5-600+ vat.9

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think you miss understood my point.

Apologies I did misunderstand.

I didn't realise you can charge your own time to the grant, had assumed it would not be allowable.

Fine Day

What is the thoughts of another TAMS for next year. I am sorry I did not start the process earlier this year but I think it maybe too late now.

Theheff

Theheff wrote: »

What is the thoughts of another TAMS for next year. I am sorry I did not start the process earlier this year but I think it maybe too late now.

I'm wondering the same, its supposed to end this year but I'm very hopeful they will start another one in the coming year or two. I'm eligible for the 60% grant to build a shed and would hope to be able to get it in 2 years time or so.

Timmaay

In terms of grants, I thought you are suppose to work out the final cost after all vat/grants back, and that's the amount that you put down as a capital allowance. The only reason a grant might complicate that is if you only get the grant in the following tax year, and you have already put the full price (ex vat) of the shed in as capital allowances. But even in that case it would definitely not make sense to put the grant in as an income for that year.

Also grants do mean having to be able to bridge the cost of the grant until you draw it down. This is usually while you are waiting for the vat to come back also.

Another consideration is if you have several possible tams projects, such say a milking parlour etc, and you expect to go over your 80k ceiling across the full duration of the tams project, in this case it could well pay to sacrifice the tams grant on the shed, to draw down the milking parlour one instead.

Final point I'll make is if the shed is an extension of existing sheds, this could considerably complicate the department specifications required for a grant spec shed (for example the new shed often cannot use the existing sheds pillars/rafters).

farmer2018

I am applying for an exemption for a slatted shed for sucklers. My options are as as follows what would ye go for I have 168m2 to play with.

1. 3 Bay with creep
2. 3 Bay with double tank and bigger slats
3. 4 bay with 14'6 slats.

I have existing sheds which I can use as calving pins and I could feed in as a creep.

Ideally I want a 4 bay with creep/pins.

All advice welcome please.

Hard Knocks

farmer2018 wrote: »

I am applying for an exemption for a slatted shed for sucklers. My options are as as follows what would ye go for I have 168m2 to play with.

1. 3 Bay with creep
2. 3 Bay with double tank and bigger slats
3. 4 bay with 14'6 slats.

I have existing sheds which I can use as calving pins and I could feed in as a creep.

Ideally I want a 4 bay with creep/pins.

All advice welcome please.

Could you go 4 bay now and add creep behind the slats again?

Fine Day

farmer2018 wrote: »

I am applying for an exemption for a slatted shed for sucklers. My options are as as follows what would ye go for I have 168m2 to play with.

1. 3 Bay with creep
2. 3 Bay with double tank and bigger slats
3. 4 bay with 14'6 slats.

I have existing sheds which I can use as calving pins and I could feed in as a creep.

Ideally I want a 4 bay with creep/pins.

All advice welcome please.

Would you not go and get planning for a shed that best suits your needs ad opposed to building a shed that is half right.

farmer2018

Theheff wrote: »

Would you not go and get planning for a shed that best suits your needs ad opposed to building a shed that is half right.

Will be late for December Tams.

Fine Day

farmer2018 wrote: »

Will be late for December Tams.

Is there not a TAMs for 2020 announced. I believe an exception takes time also.

farmer2018

Theheff wrote: »

Is there not a TAMs for 2020 announced. I an exception believe takes time also.

4 weeks

Fine Day

farmer2018 wrote: »

4 weeks

Is TAMS there next year.