Citroen Ireland to relinquish contract

GeneHunt

The Irish distributors of Peugeot & Opel here in Ireland, Gowan Group is set to get DS Automobiles and Citroen brands under there control from April 2021.


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/citro%C3%ABn-s-irish-distributor-to-relinquish-contract-1.4368492

colm_mcm

Makes total sense given that they’re all the same manufacturer now. Bizzare that they were separate in the first place.

That’s probably the end of Subaru here though.

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

Makes total sense given that they’re all the same manufacturer now. Bizzare that they were separate in the first place.

That’s probably the end of Subaru here though.

I hope you're wrong about Subaru, but with less than 100 units last 2019 you might will be right, I hope another importer will take on the Subaru brand.

Toyotafanboi

GeneHunt wrote: »

I hope you're wrong about Subaru, but with less than 100 units last 2019 you might will be right, I hope another importer will take on the Subaru brand.

They'd want to be bananas to take them in. A good salesman in busy main dealer would sell a couple of hundred cars a year. Imagine an entire brand only doing 100.

bazz26

I'd love to know who actually bought the 100.

Toyotafanboi

Yeah, how many were pre reg and demo.

Dravokivich

Carrolls in clondalkin still branded as a subaru dealer, or are they dependant on someone else getting them in?

GeneHunt

Well there are a few dealers for the Subaru here, below is the list that I got from Carzone.ie

• Nearys, Lusk, Dublin
• Carroll & Roche Cars, Clondalkin, Dublin
• Denis & Mary Ryan Car Sales, Bishopstown, Cork
• Cunningham Autopoint, Carrowbrowne, Galway

From the few people that I know that own a Subaru, they are loyal to the brand. If Gowan was to take up the Irish franchise for Subaru, if could be good for them, as they already have Honda and Honda owners tend to be loyal too.

Here's the sales for 2019 & 2020 by county

County 2020 2019
Carlow 1 0
Cavan 0 0
Clare 0 0
Cork 9 17
Donegal 3 5
Dublin 31 47
Galway 2 2
Kerry 0 3
Kildare 1 0
Kilkenny 1 0
Laois 0 0
Leitrim 0 0
Limerick 1 1
Longford 0 0
Louth 0 1
Mayo 1 1
Meath 1 1
Monaghan 0 0
Offaly 0 0
Roscommon 0 0
Sligo 0 1
Tipperary 1 7
Waterford 0 2
Westmeath 0 0
Wexford 0 2
Wicklow 4 3

GeneHunt

The Citroen Ireland (The IM Group) sales where dropping with the Citroen & DS brands here over the last few years. I think the IM Group had lost interest in there Irish operations. BREXIT is probably a big factor in them dropping the Irish franchises.


Brands 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
Citroen 1,811 1,358 1,283 1,102 910
DS 154 99 44 24 54


Gowan will have a lot of work to do, to get the sales for the two brands going in the other direction.
One of the first things they need to do is to get a proper base for the DS Automobiles brand here, a working website would be a good start, DS had a website here www.dsautomobiles.ie but it was terrible, full of bugs. Then they need to set up a few dealerships for the DS brand around the country.

Mallow Road Motors in Cork or Gowan Motors on the Navan Road are probably a good examples of that to expect from the Gowan Group in the future.

road_high

Being in a Citroen dealer lately their range is actually very impressive and great value too. I think there’s a lot more potential there than the current sales figures. Though the vans are selling well

colm_mcm

The vans are replicated by Opel, Toyota, Peugeot and Fiat. I wonder how long they will keep up the badge engineering, and will they just have a dedicated van brand eventually.

Surprised by Citroen’s figures tbh, but Subaru is a basket case, and their range reflects that. €37k for the Impreza hatchback which is their cheapest car. €390 is the lowest tax bracket they have which in 2020 is crazy. And these are on cars they’re calling hybrids too.

Even if Subaru Ireland had 4 employees, and no other overheads - they’d be making a loss with that sort of volume.

Will fiat be going under the same umbrella then?

colm_mcm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Will fiat be going under the same umbrella then?

I think the distribution in Ireland is done by a company owned by the Angelli family, so maybe not.

Again, like Subaru - the volumes Fiat are doing are dire, and that’s product related too so that might change once they start building stuff people want (biggest seller is the 500 hatch which is a 13 year old model but still very desirable)

road_high

Can’t remember the last time I saw a new Subaru or even cared. The styling does nothing for me and the pricing is insane.
I read in the UK sales are suffering too

GustavoFring

If that Levorg came with a decent engine and gearbox it's a nice bus. Even a diesel one would have been a seller.

AMKC

colm_mcm wrote: »

The vans are replicated by Opel, Toyota, Peugeot and Fiat. I wonder how long they will keep up the badge engineering, and will they just have a dedicated van brand eventually.

Surprised by Citroen’s figures tbh, but Subaru is a basket case, and their range reflects that. €37k for the Impreza hatchback which is their cheapest car. €390 is the lowest tax bracket they have which in 2020 is crazy. And these are on cars they’re calling hybrids too.

Even if Subaru Ireland had 4 employees, and no other overheads - they’d be making a loss with that sort of volume.

What van do Opel make thats badge engineered with Citroen? I think it's just Toyota, Peugeot and Fiat thatxCotroen share with and Opel do the same with Renault and Nissan not with Citroen, Peugeot, Toyota or Fiat

Old diesel

I'd have thought that giving up Citroen would make IM group MORE likely to keep Subaru not less.

(They could of course stop selling Subaru's at any point regardless of their Citroen decision)

bazz26

AMKC wrote: »

What van do Opel make thats badge engineered with Citroen? I think it's just Toyota, Peugeot and Fiat thatxCotroen share with and Opel do the same with Renault and Nissan not with Citroen, Peugeot, Toyota or Fiat

The new Opel Vivaro is now a rebadged Peugeot Expert/Citroen Dispatch and Toyota Proace.

The new Opel Combo is now a rebadged Peugeot Partner and Citroen Berlingo.

Opel stopped selling rebadged Renault/Nissan and Fiat commercials when they were bought by the PSA group.

The view Vivaro must be a tidier size than the old one then.

AMKC

bazz26 wrote: »

The new Opel Vivaro is now a rebadged Peugeot Expert/Citroen Dispatch and Toyota Proace.

The new Opel Combo is now a rebadged Peugeot Partner and Citroen Berlingo.

Opel stopped selling rebadged Renault/Nissan and Fiat commercials when they were bought by the PSA group.

Awe very good. Did not know.

The new Citroen C4 looks nice.

ofcork

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think the distribution in Ireland is done by a company owned by the Angelli family, so maybe not.

Again, like Subaru - the volumes Fiat are doing are dire, and that’s product related too so that might change once they start building stuff people want (biggest seller is the 500 hatch which is a 13 year old model but still very desirable)

Fiat definitely fell off a cliff cork went from 4 dealers down to 1.

colm_mcm

ofcork wrote: »

Fiat definitely fell off a cliff cork went from 4 dealers down to 1.

There’s no dealer in Limerick now if we need stuff, so it’s either Cork or Galway now.

20 years ago, Motorzone was always busy. Not just in the workshop!

Hellrazer

colm_mcm wrote: »

Again, like Subaru - the volumes Fiat are doing are dire, and that’s product related too so that might change once they start building stuff people want (biggest seller is the 500 hatch which is a 13 year old model but still very desirable)

Im not sure it is all product related Colm. I was with Fiat for a good 8 years and the thing with Fiat over here is that their prices are way out of kilter with the rest of Europe. Leaving aside the VRT etc they just cant get their marketing right.
For example the Tipo / 500l / 500x are really decent models that are as reliable as anything and have decent specs. When I was with them these models were supposed to be the saviours of Fiat. The Tipo was supposed to compete with the focus sized segment on price and features but they priced the thing ABOVE the Focus...No one was going to buy a Fiat over a Ford but if they had got the pricing right it could have sold by the bucket load.

Similar story with the 500X - Juke sized crossover. Again they priced it over here above the Juke.

If you look at European sales figures for 2019 Fiat Chrysler they sold 918000 units. Hyundai sold 546000 units.Ford sold 1.1 million.Toyota sold 729000.

Ford,Hyundai and Toyota are huge in Ireland but not as big on the continent except for Ford.

Fiat don't seem to care about our tiny market.Even in the UK they did 20,000 units last year.200 this year in Ireland and only 395 last year.


They aren't dead as a brand - just dead in Ireland.

Arthur Daley

Yes, we can't measure things on the Irish market where the Koreans and Japanese are bigger players than they may be elsewhere.

I thought Fiat were discounting the Tipo a bit and it competed strongly on price. But I've never compared prices against a Focus etc. Of course Citroen have competed on price for years in the UK as well. And they sold well enough in the 90s and 2000s as they were seen as good value if you can look beyond the standard perceptions of French quality.

See a good few old C3s from 2003 or 2004 on the road as runabouts and farmers can swear by the berlingo van.

road_high

I think when distribution seems to be handled as a UK offshoot it doesn’t work well.
When Fiat had a big HQ at the Red Cow roundabout they were very prominent. I’m no expert on it but it seems they take the UK price and add the VRT which just doesn’t not work and isn’t competitive.
The likes of the 500 X should be going down a storm here but is a flop. Look at how well the Captur, Juke, 2008 etc are doing. I think the product is not bad but the sales and marketing etc is terrible

road_high

I think when distribution seems to be handled as a UK offshoot it doesn’t work well.
When Fiat had a big HQ at the Red Cow roundabout they were very prominent. I’m no expert on it but it seems they take the UK price and add the VRT which just doesn’t not work and isn’t competitive.
The likes of the 500 X should be going down a storm here but is a flop. Look at how well the Captur, Juke, 2008 etc are doing. I think the product is not bad but the sales and marketing etc is terrible.
Didn’t realise Citroen had been a UK offshoot too, they should be doing a lot better. I sat in a C3 lately and for the money I thought it had a lot to offer.

colm_mcm

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im not sure it is all product related Colm. I was with Fiat for a good 8 years and the thing with Fiat over here is that their prices are way out of kilter with the rest of Europe. Leaving aside the VRT etc they just cant get their marketing right.
For example the Tipo / 500l / 500x are really decent models that are as reliable as anything and have decent specs. When I was with them these models were supposed to be the saviours of Fiat. The Tipo was supposed to compete with the focus sized segment on price and features but they priced the thing ABOVE the Focus...No one was going to buy a Fiat over a Ford but if they had got the pricing right it could have sold by the bucket load.

Similar story with the 500X - Juke sized crossover. Again they priced it over here above the Juke.

If you look at European sales figures for 2019 Fiat Chrysler they sold 918000 units. Hyundai sold 546000 units.Ford sold 1.1 million.Toyota sold 729000.

Ford,Hyundai and Toyota are huge in Ireland but not as big on the continent.

Fiat don't seem to care about our tiny market.Even in the UK they did 20,000 units last year.200 this year in Ireland and only 395 last year.


They aren't dead as a brand - just dead in Ireland.

Look at their lineup though

Ducato, same since 2006 (14 years old)
500, same since 2007, apart from an electric model (13 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (9 years old)
500x (6 years old)
500l (8 years old)
Tipo (5 years old)

Of those, only the 500 or Ducato have their following.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Look at their lineup though

Ducato, same since 2006 (14 years old)
500, same since 2007, apart from an electric model (13 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (9 years old)
500x (6 years old)
500l (8 years old)
Tipo (5 years old)

Of those, only the 500 or Ducato have their following.

Is that their full lineup? I see piles of Doblos.

colm_mcm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Is that their full lineup? I see piles of Doblos.

Oh yeah, the Doblo, (which came out 10 years ago) the Fiorino (a PSA joint venture that came out 13 years ago)

The Doblo was the same as the old Combo, which has now been replaced with a Berlingo clone, so dunno if the Doblo is still being built.

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

Look at their lineup though

Ducato, same since 2006 (14 years old)
500, same since 2007, apart from an electric model (13 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (9 years old)
500x (6 years old)
500l (8 years old)
Tipo (5 years old)

Of those, only the 500 or Ducato have their following.

The Ducuto was face-lifted and there's a all electric version
The 500e is an all new model, but your right the range needs new models. To me American Auto companies do mismanage Europe! GM failed with Opel / Vauxhall, Chrysler forgot about Fiat's cars, Rumours of Ford are conceding about pulling out of Europe.

I'm sure PSA / FCA are busy engineering a new Doblo from the new Berlingo.

Would a new Punto sell if developed from the new 208/ Corsa?

GeneHunt

colm_mcm wrote: »

Look at their lineup though

Ducato, same since 2006 (14 years old)
500, same since 2007, apart from an electric model (13 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (9 years old)
500x (6 years old)
500l (8 years old)
Tipo (5 years old)

Of those, only the 500 or Ducato have their following.

The Ducuto was face-lifted and there's a all electric version
The 500e is an all new model, but your right the range needs new models. To me American Auto companies do mismanage Europe! GM failed with Opel / Vauxhall, Chrysler forgot about Fiat's cars, Rumours of Ford are conceding about pulling out of Europe.

I'm sure PSA / FCA are busy engineering a new Doblo from the new Berlingo.

Would a new Punto sell if developed from the new 208/ Corsa?

colm_mcm

GeneHunt wrote: »

The Ducuto was face-lifted and there's an all electric version

It’s been facelifted a good few times at this stage.

Now, a van is just a big box to put stuff in, and why would they update it really?