Deposit issue with misleading company

bartlebooth

A friend just had a very frustrating experience with a property management company advertising an appartment for rent in Dublin.

She visited the appartment a couple times, agreed by email with the terms of the lease and sent her references. She was asked to pay the deposit and did so immediately. The next day the person from the company said that the deposit wasn't received on the account. My friend called her bank, they confirmed that there was no issue and the transfer went through (both accounts in the same bank btw). She even sent screenshots of her account to prove that from her end the transfer was made. Then the next day, the company said that the money was still not received and abruptly said that they don't want to do business with her anymore. At this stage my friend started panicking, since basically she had just paid a lot of money to somebody who apparently didn't receive it. So she was understandably very upset, assuming it was a scam and the money might be already stolen. Then a few hours later another email from the company saying they are transfering the deposit back, and indeed she saw the money back in her account later. No explanation whatsoever.

The day after by chance she saw that somebody else was moving in the appartment. So in hindsight it seems clear that the company was fishing two wannabe tenants: they let her think that she had the appartment and pretended that the deposit wasn't received until they were sure about the other one.

Question: is this illegal or just some kind of bad practice? Is there anything she can do about it, like complain somewhere? I thought about RTB but she wasn't a tenant yet so apparently it's outside their jurisdiction.

For the record there was a bit of another issue before, because the company (or landlord?) had decided to put wooden floor and because of that they were asking for a rent higher than advertised. They were also giving a very suspicious explanation about service charges for the higher price. At the time I thought this was weird, but the price they asked was still ok for her, so she went ahead.

GarIT

You don't have any proof of anything so there's no story here really.

They are 100% entitled to ask for a higher price than advertised and don't need to give an explanation. I've even been to viewings where people ended up bidding on the amount of rent they were willing to pay orrering more than the other person if they could have it.

They only thing they can't do is charge more than the previous rent +4% if it's in a RPZ.

bartlebooth

GarIT wrote: »

You don't have any proof of anything so there's no story here really.

Well, there's the email asking her to transfer the deposit to a bank account, the bank confirming the next day that the money was indeed transferred to that account, and finally the company rescinding the offer just before magically discovering the money in their account and returning it immediately.

Even assuming they somehow got confused and didn't see that the money was received, why would they return it once they realize that they actually have it? At this stage it should be clear that the mistake was on their side, so there's no reason to cancel the agreement.

TheChizler

Sounds like the there was possibly a contract formed which they immediately broke. What terms were agreed? Move in dates, things like that? Had anyone signed anything? I'd be annoyed if I was your friend, not sure if much could be done about it though and if yes would it be worth it.

GarIT

bartlebooth wrote: »

Well, there's the email asking her to transfer the deposit to a bank account, the bank confirming the next day that the money was indeed transferred to that account, and finally the company rescinding the offer just before magically discovering the money in their account and returning it immediately.

Even assuming they somehow got confused and didn't see that the money was received, why would they return it once they realize that they actually have it? At this stage it should be clear that the mistake was on their side, so there's no reason to cancel the agreement.

Transferred doesn't necessarily mean received. I'm not against you, I'm just trying to show why it isn't worth following up on.

Maybe they didn't like your friends attitude or how they interacted with them. Could be plenty of reasons they didn't want to continue. And you'd have a hard time proving that it wasn't a genuine reason.

bartlebooth

TheChizler wrote: »

Sounds like the there was possibly a contract formed which they immediately broke. What terms were agreed? Move in dates, things like that? Had anyone signed anything? I'd be annoyed if I was your friend, not sure if much could be done about it though and if yes would it be worth it.

No there was nothing signed yet, only email. She was supposed to sign the lease as soon as the deposit was paid and move in today, that was the date agreed.

Thankfully her current landlord is a nice guy and he agreed she can stay a bit longer in her current place, otherwise it would have caused a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money.

TheChizler

bartlebooth wrote: »

No there was nothing signed yet, only email. She was supposed to sign the lease as soon as the deposit was paid and move in today, that was the date agreed.

Thankfully her current landlord is a nice guy and he agreed she can stay a bit longer in her current place, otherwise it would have caused a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money.

A contract can exist without anything being signed though it's obviously clearer when it is. If she had a move in date on condition of sending a deposit which she had proof of sending it seems pretty clear cut to me.

She could complain to the PSRA if she just wants to complain, RTB if she wants the contract enforced but that'll probably just work out badly for everyone, much easier to just move on and be grateful that's the last she'll have to deal with them.

bartlebooth

GarIT wrote: »

Transferred doesn't necessarily mean received. I'm not against you, I'm just trying to show why it isn't worth following up on.

Maybe they didn't like your friends attitude or how they interacted with them. Could be plenty of reasons they didn't want to continue. And you'd have a hard time proving that it wasn't a genuine reason.

As soon as they mentioned the problem my friend called the bank and the bank confirmed that the transfer was made, and since it's the same bank they could check that the money was actually received. Yet it took the company another day to realize that they had received it. On the evidence side the bank could probably confirm if needed.

They're absolutely free not to like my friend But then they shouldn't ask her to pay the deposit in the first place.

GarIT

bartlebooth wrote: »

As soon as they mentioned the problem my friend called the bank and the bank confirmed that the transfer was made, and since it's the same bank they could check that the money was actually received. Yet it took the company another day to realize that they had received it. On the evidence side the bank could probably confirm if needed.

They're absolutely free not to like my friend But then they shouldn't ask her to pay the deposit in the first place.

Then the bank have committed an offence and the landlord could be in for a big payout. The bank absolutely can't confirm it was received.

Maybe they were fine with things until after they asked for the deposit. Maybe someone else paid in between them seeing or thinking it was late and them receiving or realising they had received it.

bartlebooth

TheChizler wrote: »

A contract can exist without anything being signed though it's obviously clearer when it is. If she had a move in date on condition of sending a deposit which she had proof of sending it seems pretty clear cut to me.

She could complain to the PSRA if she just wants to complain, RTB if she wants the contract enforced but that'll probably just work out badly for everyone, much easier to just move on and be grateful that's the last she'll have to deal with them.

I didn't know about the PSRA, looks like an interesting option, thanks for the idea!

I agree, trying to have the contract enforced would be over the top I think.

Baby01032012

It could be argued that you had a contract with the company, even though there was no signed written contract, you transferred the deposit and first months rent so let the proof on your side. At best it is a sharp practice.

I would make a complaint to the PSRA if they are a licensed PSP which they should be. I’m saying this as a landlord and also a PSRA member.

Zebrag

Honestly your friend should count themselves extremely lucky. When I read this first I was thinking jesus the landlord sounds like they are scamming for money, false advertisement and then run off but I was delighted to read your friend ended up getting their money transfered quick enough.

I want to say it sounds like the landlord got a better offer in the end but it's the denying the transfer of the money thats getting to me. That's lying. Although the bank can confirm the transfer went to their account, I don't think they can confirm their account actually recieved anything, pretty sure that would be a breech of data protection. But the confirmation is there is your friend received their money.

In terms of what can be done, I doubt anything really. Unfortunately. It's sounds like it's more frustration than anything else. Thankfully your friends current landlord is nice enough to understand the situation and your friend hasn't lost any money.

Even if all did go to plan and received that accommodation, if that's the carry on your friend received now then god knows what would of happened had your friend decided to stay in the place they wanted to rent.

Think of it as a lesson learned. Make sure all documents and official agreements, date of moving arranged before any money is transferd to avoid this situation again. Shows your friend is cautious and the next landlord might be thankful of this.

It goes to show how awful people can be and how fierce the competition is out their.

spaceHopper

If they are member of the IPAV she can make a complaint to them, at the very least it will be kept of file if there are more complaints

https://www.ipav.ie/profile/complaints-disciplinary-procedures

Also

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/letting-agents/

bartlebooth

I wasn't sure what can be done in a case like, Thank you everyone for the advice! this is really helpful.

listermint

GarIT wrote: »

Then the bank have committed an offence and the landlord could be in for a big payout. The bank absolutely can't confirm it was received.

Maybe they were fine with things until after they asked for the deposit. Maybe someone else paid in between them seeing or thinking it was late and them receiving or realising they had received it.

Offence? What legislation prevents a bank verifying a transaction has hit an account within its own infrastructure?