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Questions about judo

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  • 30-09-2020 11:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭


    Hi everyone, I have a few questions on how is Judo is generally taught in Judo classes. Often I see when trying to research Judo threads from reddit alot of people say Judo is being watered down and bring back leg grabs.

    Which leads to my first question.. Do classes teach based on competition or self defence?

    If leg grabs are banned from competitions do judo classes teach them or do they only teach whats in the rule set of competitions?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭average hero


    hi op,

    most judo clubs will primarily train competition judo. judo is an excellent form of self-defence on its own, even if in competition format.

    it would not make sense to train in something that would be illegal to use in a competition if you are competition. some lot of judo clubs will however do some oter forms of grappling. for example, my club in portmarnock in dublin will frequently have wrestling or all-in grappling nights so you tend to learn other maneuvers or self defence techniques.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 AndyJD


    -> Hi everyone, I have a few questions on how is Judo is generally taught in Judo classes
    Ans: It really will depend on the Sensei [ judo coach] in the Dojo [club]

    -> Often I see when trying to research Judo threads from reddit alot of people say Judo is being watered down and bring back leg grabs
    Ans: I believe you refer to a Judo focused on competition training. Judo the art is bigger than just the competition part. They way I describe it is: Think is a 12 inches pizza, you decide to eat one slice and share the rest or eat what slice you want and not share the rest and let it get rotten. You can get your Judo for competition and let the rest or get the slice you want and help the rest with what they want.

    -> If leg grabs are banned from competitions do judo classes teach them or do they only teach whats in the rule set of competitions?
    Ans: I have no problem to teach Morote Gari, Kibisu Gaeshi and - Twe Guruma - Katagurma ( traditional one) as long it is not a competition class focusing on the sport competition preparation.

    * The reason why it was banned from competition was because few did not want to learn the rest of the Judo part as leg grab is less complicated to learn compared to the hug complexity of hip/hand throws when walking in different direction and situations. It worth to say that grab the leg are not easy neither. But it is easier comparing to the hip and leg throws.

    This is my point of view at least and if you want to visit our dojo in Navan you are welcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭Arcadeheroes


    Thanks everyone for your replies . I guess when it came down to my questions on how classes were taught was that is Judo today more so taught in line of competition than self defence ? .
    I know there is always the option of cross training with Judo/BJJ for the complete grappling experience , but that is not an option I can choose atm .

    I only found the other day there is something called kosen judo ? maybe this is what I was looking for but it seems near impossible to find a school that would teach this in my local area in Galway .

    I have alot of things to consider until this pandemic finishes

    Thank you very much =)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    Thanks everyone for your replies . I guess when it came down to my questions on how classes were taught was that is Judo today more so taught in line of competition than self defence ? .
    I know there is always the option of cross training with Judo/BJJ for the complete grappling experience , but that is not an option I can choose atm .

    I only found the other day there is something called kosen judo ? maybe this is what I was looking for but it seems near impossible to find a school that would teach this in my local area in Galway .

    I have alot of things to consider until this pandemic finishes

    Thank you very much =)

    I only did a handful of Judo classes but yes its taught more in a competitive sport style than as a self defense class. Judo is great for self defence tho and probably way more effective than any martial art that markets itself as purely Self Defense. BJJ is very similarly taught, youll occasionally get some self defence tips and its a great sport to use for self defence, but most classes tach it like a sport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭Nichololas


    Thanks everyone for your replies . I guess when it came down to my questions on how classes were taught was that is Judo today more so taught in line of competition than self defence ? .
    I know there is always the option of cross training with Judo/BJJ for the complete grappling experience , but that is not an option I can choose atm .

    I only found the other day there is something called kosen judo ? maybe this is what I was looking for but it seems near impossible to find a school that would teach this in my local area in Galway .

    I have alot of things to consider until this pandemic finishes

    Thank you very much =)

    Kosen Judo is a ruleset for Japanese university tournaments that gives longer (unlimited?) time on the ground - it's not taught as a separate art.

    Besides, if you want to play on the ground more you can go to a bjj class


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    A competitive judoka should be more than able to defend themselves if they have thought about how to apply what they have.

    There probably is a lack of certain tools, but the same will be true of literally anyone no matter their training. Maybe the exception is a genuinely well-rounded MMA student who in theory is comfortable at all ranges and trains according to a rule set that is relatively open. And even then if the concern is 'self defence' then you could say they don't address trauma management, defensive driving, defence against edged weapons or whatever else you think of.

    At the end of the day combat sports work great for self defence and if someone can succeed in a competition format then even if it has a limited rule set they can probably make it work for them in self defence. Boxers are a great example. No takedowns, no takedown defence, no ground, no kicking and yet no one disputes it's probably one of the most effective self defence systems you could learn, because what they do well is so applicable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,178 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Nichololas wrote: »
    Kosen Judo is a ruleset for Japanese university tournaments that gives longer (unlimited?) time on the ground - it's not taught as a separate art.
    Different martial arts are essentially defined by their ruleset.

    Judo and BJJ are the same martial art under different ruleset.
    Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle wrestling, are all products of their ruleset.

    You could go as far to say every grappling based martial art is simply grappling and the differences in techniques, tactics, attire, style and, competition are purely down to ruleset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭Nichololas


    Mellor wrote: »
    Different martial arts are essentially defined by their ruleset.

    Judo and BJJ are the same martial art under different ruleset.
    Greco, Freestyle and Folkstyle wrestling, are all products of their ruleset.

    You could go as far to say every grappling based martial art is simply grappling and the differences in techniques, tactics, attire, style and, competition are purely down to ruleset.

    Yes, but my point was that Kosen Judo is not really a developed style different to Judo. It's Judo, taught in Judo clubs, with an idiosyncratic ruleset that allows more time on the ground because students learning in University clubs don't have enough time to develop proficiency in stand-up grappling (iirc). Sure, if it was more prevalent it might develop more differences to Judo due to the ruleset, but it's not .. so it hasn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,178 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Nichololas wrote: »
    Yes, but my point was that Kosen Judo is not really a developed style different to Judo. It's Judo, taught in Judo clubs, with an idiosyncratic ruleset that allows more time on the ground because students learning in University clubs don't have enough time to develop proficiency in stand-up grappling (iirc). Sure, if it was more prevalent it might develop more differences to Judo due to the ruleset, but it's not .. so it hasn't.
    “It’s just judo with more time on the ground” suggests that it can be done in any club. When in reality, some clubs almost ignore newaza and others have a strong focus. If somebody wanted to learn the kosen judo aspect. Not every club will be equally suitable.

    Although, depending on their goals they may be better off just crosstraining in jiu jitsu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Vystopian


    I would love to train Kosen judo with occasional take downs. Do you think if enough of us signed up with a weekly class at a Judo dojo, they'd be willing to teach kosen specifically?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,178 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Probably not. As the chances of a random coach in a random club being black belt level at newazza is pretty unlikely. It's a specialist sub-style



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 3,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭Black Sheep


    I think kosen judo these days is effectively a rule set, with protracted ne waza, associated with Japanese university clubs. Many years ago on a trip to Japan I did contact a specific club in Tokyo that was advertised as a home of kosen judo, and they invited me to train, but I did not get the chance to go in the end. I've no doubt that there were (are?) clubs like this that are in the kosen judo lineage where they have the more highly developed ne waza you see in videos online sometimes.

    Outside of Japan my impression is that there are obviously clubs that might have a focus on ne waza, I guess Neil Adams was known for that, but that doesn't mean it is 'kosen judo'.

    Grapplers in the west are fascinated by kosen judo because it has a special history that makes people interested in it, but actually compared to mainstream BJJ and submission wrestling it's a much smaller talent pool and certain things come with that.



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