Exercising a laid up car - benefits?

BrianD3

I enjoy looking at youtube videos of people starting cars that haven't been started in many years. Classic car enthusiasts would often have such cars laid up outside at their property.

Is it worthwhile to start and move them a bit (that's if they start and drive!) every few months or so vs leaving them sit idle. What problems would this avert?

From the videos I've watched, fuel pumps seem to cause problems after an extended period of non use.

Is a timing belt less likely to snap on a car that is started every few months vs one that is started every few years.

With some of my own cars I've noticed small things e.g. an analogue clock that doesn't work until the car has been running for a while and is nice and warm - moisture in the electrics?

Leaving the handbrake off and smearing grease on brake disks makes life a lot easier - yes the pads will now be contaminated and probably need changing before the car goes back on the road but it will be much easier to move the car while it is laid up.

Also, is it considerably better to store a car on tarmac/concrete vs grass/dirt or is that a myth.

No advice on your query, as I wouldn't know much about the pros and cons, just wanted to drop a link to this guy's channel in case anybody hasn't seen him yet: Vice Grip Garage

The vids are all great, but this one especially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ItpbPWEgA

Andrewf20

Surely starting and moving the car regularly is best. Get some heat in the car to drive out condensation in the mechanicals and the electrics, especially if outdoors.

Seweryn

Starting and moving a bit is something I wouldn't do occasionally for a rarely used car. But driving for a good 20 min. that is a very different thing and should be done regularly.

antodeco

Alot of people fall down on this. They start the car and rev it a bit and they think that's all you need.

The car needs to move. As was mentioned, you need to clean out the condensation. You want the oil circulating around. You want the joints/bearings etc, getting moved to stop ceasing up, and you want the tyres rolling to remove chances of flat spots.

An issue I used to have was the slow oil leak that fouled the spark plugs if the car wasn't used for a long time. I used to pop them out, blowtorch them and put them back in. They were right as rain for the next time.

80sDiesel

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No advice on your query, as I wouldn't know much about the pros and cons, just wanted to drop a link to this guy's channel in case anybody hasn't seen him yet: Vice Grip Garage

The vids are all great, but this one especially.

Thanks ,watched the whole thing. Reminded me of the roadkill episodes.

_ptashek_

BrianD3 wrote: »

Is it worthwhile to start and move them a bit (that's if they start and drive!) every few months or so vs leaving them sit idle. What problems would this avert?

Start and move a bit, no. Start and drive a bit until everything is warmed up and up to operating temps, definitely yes. What problems does it avert?

- rust forming on crankshaft, cylinder walls, pistons, rings, valves, cams and in oil passages due to residual moisture in engine oil that has no chance of evaporating as the crankcase is not ventilated

- as it ages, engine oil becomes acidic and starts attacking the metal around it, accelerating the issues above; same goes for coolant

- rust and varnish in fuel tank, and supply system - especially critical with the ethanol infused eco-junk we are sold at the pumps these days; it absorbs moisture like there's no tomorrow and deteriorates after barely a few weeks in the tank

- bearings live longer when exercised

- most seals in the engine need a regular oil bath to perform at their best

Also, is it considerably better to store a car on tarmac/concrete vs grass/dirt or is that a myth.

Ireland has an average annual relative humidity of around 80%. From about 50% onwards rust formation accelerates very rapidly. If the car is kept outside, what it stands on won't really make any difference in the long run. Maybe if it's in a shed, there will be less rising damp if the floor is concrete/tarmac.

Climate control makes a massive difference. My daily is parked outside all year, and the brake discs have significant surface rust after a couple days of no use. The classic in the garage has none after standing from November to March.

w124man

All of my cars get a 25 mile drive once a month or more if the sun is out! Everything needs to get up to operating temperature. Half doing this will lead to more problems.

unkel

w124man wrote: »

All of my cars get a 25 mile drive once a month or more if the sun is out! Everything needs to get up to operating temperature. Half doing this will lead to more problems.

Easier said than done for most people as the car would need to have motor tax, insurance and NCT to do that (and of course be road worthy enough). Nearly always at least one of those would be out in a car that's laid up...

w124man

Agreed but I would never let an NCT or insurance lapse!

Testacalda

w124man wrote: »

Half doing this will lead to more problems.

I think starting a car and moving just a little bit is certainly better than leaving it and doing nothing at all, that's if we are talking long term storage. Leaving it a few months at a time is no harm at all.

I have a car in a shed waiting for a significant birthday. Every 6 months or so I start it, let it warm up for a few mins, drive it forward and back a bit, operate brakes and hand brake, steering etc...

It isn't as good as actually taking it out for a drive but much less chance my brakes will be stuck if the are exercised even a little, less chance my clutch disc will get stuck to the flywheel, keeps cylinder walls lubricated, valve stems free, water pump spinning etc...

Only thing is it will rot the hell out of my exhaust, filling it with moisture, but its a small sacrifice.

Remember reading the owners handbook for a Rolls Royce 20/25. It recommended not to start or move it at all when laid up over the winter months. All that was recommended was to instruct your driver to take the weight off the tyres!

unkel wrote: »

...the car would need to have motor tax, insurance and NCT to do that (and of course be road worthy enough). Nearly always at least one of those would be out in a car that's laid up...

Several or even all of the above in my case!

BrianD3

Thanks for the responses, my cars are outside and I only have a medium length driveway so I can just about shift into 2nd gear and let out the clutch fully before stopping with a safety margin. I also brake hard as part of teh exercise - surprisingly, having the disks coated with grease doesn't seem to make much difference to the braking performance at those speeds at least. Also use the steering side to side etc. That is what constitutes "a bit" of driving in my case.

I find that running a petrol engine for about 30 minutes gets it and the exhaust nicely hot. Also gets the cooling fan coming on, care is needed to avoid overheating here as an electric fan on a laid up car can stick slightly IME so I will exercise the fan by hand first and keep a close eye that it is coming on when it should

My Laguna has developed a steering rack leak while laid up, maybe if I had been exercising it more often this could have been avoided.

antodeco

1 of mine ended up having a perished fuel line (thankfully the one into the carb). It wasn't driven for a while and noticed a strong smell of petrol. Was able to see it dripping out under the engine. Little things like that you need to be aware of.

galwaytt

BrianD3 wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, my cars are outside and I only have a medium length driveway so I can just about shift into 2nd gear and let out the clutch fully before stopping with a safety margin. I also brake hard as part of teh exercise - surprisingly, having the disks coated with grease doesn't seem to make much difference to the braking performance at those speeds at least. Also use the steering side to side etc. That is what constitutes "a bit" of driving in my case.

I find that running a petrol engine for about 30 minutes gets it and the exhaust nicely hot. Also gets the cooling fan coming on, care is needed to avoid overheating here as an electric fan on a laid up car can stick slightly IME so I will exercise the fan by hand first and keep a close eye that it is coming on when it should

My Laguna has developed a steering rack leak while laid up, maybe if I had been exercising it more often this could have been avoided.

Grease on brake discs - that's a windup surely ??

ba_barabus

w124man wrote: »

Agreed but I would never let an NCT or insurance lapse!

Its the tax that would get me, I generally aim to tax and use from April to October

w124man

June, July and August for me on the SL. Start using in May and if get caught tax it there and then online ......

ba_barabus

w124man wrote: »

June, July and August for me on the SL. Start using in May and if get caught tax it there and then online ......

Its my punishment for liking 90s cars

antodeco

w124man wrote: »

June, July and August for me on the SL. Start using in May and if get caught tax it there and then online ......

I had to tax mine for an extra 3 months this year. Nearly broke me. Only another 8 years to go...

galwaytt

antodeco wrote: »

I had to tax mine for an extra 3 months this year. Nearly broke me. Only another 8 years to go...

don't get me started: I taxed my 996 at beginnig of March.........and then watched it sitting there for lockdown.......... :mad:

unkel

antodeco wrote: »

I had to tax mine for an extra 3 months this year. Nearly broke me. Only another 8 years to go...

8 years and 4 months for me :-(

antodeco

Thankfully 2 of them are at least 40 years old so can't complain too much!

Redriddick

Same as you lads, just bought a 94 a few months back. Tax is a killer. What's the tax like up the north for these cars?

BonnieSituation

unkel wrote: »

8 years and 4 months for me :-(

'Til Date of Manufacture or date of first registration? :P

BonnieSituation

Redriddick wrote: »

Same as you lads, just bought a 94 a few months back. Tax is a killer. What's the tax like up the north for these cars?

Depends on the year:

Before 01/03/2001:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-and-light-goods-vehicles-registered-before-1-march-2001

01/03/2001 - 31/03/2017:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/rates-for-cars-registered-on-or-after-1-march-2001

01/04/2017 onwards:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

macplaxton

Redriddick wrote: »

Same as you lads, just bought a 94 a few months back. Tax is a killer. What's the tax like up the north for these cars?

c. 24 quid a month Direct Debit. Megabargain!

Redriddick

macplaxton wrote: »

c. 24 quid a month Direct Debit. Megabargain!

Bit of a difference alright, 270 sterling vs 700 odd euros for the year.......

traco

The tax is a nightmare when trying to maintain a fleet. The only way I would take a SORN car on the road is for its NCT test. I'm not sure but led to believe that getting caught with expired tax is treated differently to car that has been off the road. Insurance is relatively easy to sort to get on the road.

I'm going to have to come up with a plan in the next 12 month as I hope to add a few more and will need to be able to exercise them as people have posted to keep things right.

Why can't you just walk into a garage and buy a weekends / 48 hours car tax? I'd pay €50 for a weekend if it meant I could get each one out every month or two for a shakedown and identify things that need sorting. Mine are a ways from classic so I'm stuck with the punitive system for many years yet.

Redriddick

traco wrote: »

The tax is a nightmare when trying to maintain a fleet. The only way I would take a SORN car on the road is for its NCT test. I'm not sure but led to believe that getting caught with expired tax is treated differently to car that has been off the road. Insurance is relatively easy to sort to get on the road.

I'm going to have to come up with a plan in the next 12 month as I hope to add a few more and will need to be able to exercise them as people have posted to keep things right.

Why can't you just walk into a garage and buy a weekends / 48 hours car tax? I'd pay €50 for a weekend if it meant I could get each one out every month or two for a shakedown and identify things that need sorting. Mine are a ways from classic so I'm stuck with the punitive system for many years yet.

Think it's something that they should look at, I am the same would have no problem paying 50 quid for a weekend here and there to take it out on the road.

unkel

Well said traco. The last time I had my Porsche on the road, I had paid €1080 in motor tax for the year. That was like €200 or so for every time I took it out. I won't be doing that again, that's for sure. Might tax it just for 3 months once I get it back on the road again, or just stick it in storage until it's 30. Or, dare I say it, sell it.

With either of these options, the state will no longer get my €1080 per year every year. They risk getting nothing at all from me with this policy. I wouldn't mind taxing the car (online) for €50 for a weekend. Or even pay a km based motor tax. Like €0.50 per km. But of course a km based system would easily lead to fraud.

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

Well said traco. The last time I had my Porsche on the road, I had paid €1080 in motor tax for the year. That was like €200 or so for every time I took it out. I won't be doing that again, that's for sure. Might tax it just for 3 months once I get it back on the road again, or just stick it in storage until it's 30. Or, dare I say it, sell it.

With either of these options, the state will no longer get my €1080 per year every year. They risk getting nothing at all from me with this policy. I wouldn't mind taxing the car (online) for €50 for a weekend. Or even pay a km based motor tax. Like €0.50 per km. But of course a km based system would easily lead to fraud.

You're preaching to the converted here. Took mine out of storage last week to take pics of it for a possible sale, and I was standing there, looking - and listening to it - and this issue came up again in my head : a fine sunny day, and can't go down the road in it because of the tax.

So, the State won't get any more til next April or so.

Boils my pi$$ it does.

macplaxton

traco wrote: »

I'd pay €50 for a weekend

unkel wrote: »

I wouldn't mind taxing the car (online) for €50 for a weekend.

Are you mad? €50? For a weekend? I'd want at least month for €50!!

If you're talking daily rates, mibbie a fiver tops.

traco

I suggested €50 as the top rate is €2,350 per year so 50 x 52 would be 2,600
My 2.0tdi daily beater diesel comes in at €32.5 per month paying for 12 months. If I could tax mine for €600 per year they would be all be taxed year round and all used at different times but that's a substantial change to the annual motor tax rates system and we know that will never happen.

Buying a disc would not change the system but give another option. It should be intended for occasional use like a few weekends here and there but not cheaper than paying for the 3, 6 or 12 months. No doubt that 50 would probably have to include VAT and a a margin for the retailers, then the admin costs so there woudl be a massive net gain to the state coffers for it but at lease we could get out and about legally. It also shouldn't impact an off the road declaration as if stopped you have proof the tax is paid and you haven't upset their archaic online tax system that needs a car taxed to declare it off the road and also runs on the same stupid 3, 6 or 12 month cycle?

It done in Austria for the motorways at around €9 per day so no reason why it inst possible to implement something similar here but for tax. https://www.asfinag.at/toll/vignette/

_ptashek_

traco wrote: »

Why can't you just walk into a garage and buy a weekends / 48 hours car tax? I'd pay €50 for a weekend if it meant I could get each one out every month or two for a shakedown and identify things that need sorting. Mine are a ways from classic so I'm stuck with the punitive system for many years yet.

Why not abandon the stupid paper and fraud rich, poorly enforced system, and have road tax included in the the price of petrol like some European countries instead?

This way, everybody pays, including all tourists, foreign hauliers, and pays fairly. The more you drive or the less economical car you drive the more you pay. Simple.

Massive paper savings, no need for enforcement, and generally a ton of savings in terms of time and resources.

EVs would have to be covered somehow, but that could be done via electricity rates too.

Redriddick

There is no forward thinking by this government, its will never happen.

BrianD3

I love watching videos of people starting and driving long laid up cars. Videos from the UK and Ireland are best as it's easy to relate to the humour and to see the effect that our climate has had on the cars, Here's one recent one of a 1986 Granada that has sat for 17 years, a long time without "exercise".

https://youtu.be/hW-vf2YY6wg

JP 1800

Tasty classics is a great channel. A good mix of actual mechanical work and humour.

FR85

Tasty Classics is actually doing it better then Vice Grip, Ben actually does a podcast also with an RAF pilot and it's a belter!