Tips for newbie for Indoor training and Zwift

Randy Archer

Greetings, I’m biting the bullet this winter and getting a turbo trainer . Can’t be dealing with cycling in darkness after work and where I am , it’s prone to high winds (great for tail wind but ..) and floods. Naturally , on days were the weather is decent I will still want to head outdoors to cycle

I am planning on getting an Elite Suito Smart trainer . This will come with a 12 month subscription of Elite My E Training

The hardware that I use outdoors include : Garmin Edge 820 (none of that fancy Training Effect data) ; Garmin sensors (I have a Bluetooth HRM) , And Garmin Vector 3s which I believe has Bluetooth capabilities (Not a garmin fan boy , honest)

The software that I use for saving my rides and analysis are :

Garmin Connect - it’s good for keeping track on gear used and a casual look at the numbers . While I do keep details on ride profile accurate it’s not too important that it’s 100% accurate

Training Peaks (while upgrade later) My main go to account to review my rides . Accuracy on all stats important .

Strava - for segments etc Handy power curve too

I see that Zwift is all the rage nowadays . I intend to use it for spins, structured work out (customise it) and maybe if deluded , the odd race . Group rides sounds appealing . Some days I just might use the garmin on its own with the trainer and hopefully there will still be days I can go outside (I like my 5-6 hours ride but don’t like being out of bed before 12 at the weekend )

I have a few questions to ask. It’s mostly to get user’s experience

1. Use Of Power Meter
I understand the the the smart trainers do a good job broadcasting their own power. I understand that one’s FTP outdoors can be different to that indoors . Despite that , I am wondering , assuming correct calibration etc is done, how close are the numbers between the power from the smart trainer and power from ones own power meter

Part of me likes the idea of using the smart trainer as the source of power , simply so the batteries on the on bike Power Meter are not used. But , I’d prefer to use a consistent source of power for training indoors and outdoors

How many users, who have crank or pedal power meters, use them when ridding indoors ? Is it worth it or can you trust the smart trainers to come close to accuracy ? How smooth will said Power Meters be when using erg mode in the smart trainer ? Would ye use the PM for racing on Zwift ? (I know that you’ll unlikely be looking at the PM and be going on feel)

2. Concurrent Recording on the Bike computer
Bar racing on Zwift or FTp tests , do ye bother turning on the garmin /wahoo head units (acting as a signal to the smart trainer) ? Is it due to the worry that internet power etc might fail on Zwift and you’d have a back up ? Or is it due to not trusting the numbers that the smart trainer may sent ? Or ye use it to record and compare a secondary source of power (ie your power meter linked with the head unit and the smart trainer looks after the power n controllable son Zwift) ?

I understand for the racers , Zwift recommends keeping a second source of power in case verification is needed

I know that ye can sync all the accounts , and that might be a bit of a pain having to delete rides due to double rides ie Strava gets both the garmin and Strava ride

So , for those who use Garmin Connect , would be be correct to assume that the recording of a Zwift activity on the garmin you would only get the power, time, cadence ,hr data but not elevation and obviously not a map ? (Elevation could be edited , right?) I assume distance and speed mean jack **** with indoor training , would this be fair ? If one looks at the activity recording from Zwift that is synced to Garmin Connect ,what ride details would be missing ?

Which of the two recoding sources would give you more detail on training peaks ?

I assume it’s more straight forward with Strava , just keep the Zwift recorded activity ?

3. Erg mode On smart trainers when working out

I don’t have too many problems meeting target power in my intervals , or pacing 100km /160 solo rides . I do take short mental breaks as I hate eating on the bike and sure , it’s not a race . However my big weakness is my cadence , especially when doing tempo and threshold. I can meet the average power needed on the road but I am certain there does be a fair bit of a segment that’s over and below the target zone due to the various road grades. I plan to properly work on cadence this winter -

essentially the aim of indoor training is to try and improve on skills that I can take out into the road - I have woeful habit of just focusing on speed (which means sfa due to variables) and power and ignore cadence . I can do zone 2 at 90-100 rpm but it feels boring and slow (I know it’s suppose to ) obviously I seek to avoid being under 80 rpm on hills

I understand that some coaches don’t allow their athletes to use erg mode , despite being helpful in not having to worry about gear changes etc . But they argue that erg mode limits a riders ability to work on all muscles and improve their technique on the pedals

I’m all for getting fitter and stronger and some nights I will just want to meet the power target without much thought , but how easy is it to change cadences on erg mode without coming to a dead stop ?

4. Zwift custom work out
As cadence will be a key part of my training drills , does the Zwift custom work out mode have an option to set cadence ? I know there’s a hack website that allows on to do it but it be good to know that it can be done via the companion app / I pad

5 . Elite Training App subscription
Does anyone with an elite smart trainer use this app? Is it any good ? I understand that some of the features aren’t available on Suito compared to their other trainers

Thanks for taking the time to read this , looking forward to yer suggestions

ED E

You need to consult our Guru, DCR, on point 1. If you have Assioma Corsas(sp?) then they're fairly gold standard and any good trainer will be close. If you've a left sided crank PM then chances are the trainer is gonna give far better data. IIRC the Sunto Elite got a decent review from his holiness.


And remember weight doping on zwift is a thing.

Randy Archer

ED E wrote: »

You need to consult our Guru, DCR, on point 1. If you have Assioma Corsas(sp?) then they're fairly gold standard and any good trainer will be close. If you've a left sided crank PM then chances are the trainer is gonna give far better data. IIRC the Sunto Elite got a decent review from his holiness.


And remember weight doping on zwift is a thing.

Nah, no point cheating

Ya,the q on whether a pm is more accurate than a smart trainer power gets complicated with single crank/pedal vs two pedals
😂😂

Cycling was suppose to be straight forward lol

DCR ? As in Rainmaker ? . Yeah , he’s the go too . Shane Millar is good too

Macy0161

1 - I'd verify your power meter v the smart turbo. Mine was margin of error, and obviously captured in a different place pedals/ cranks v cassette. I generally use smart turbo.

2 - Not sure I'd see the point? Only reasons I could see would be pedal dynamics, and if you were using the training effect/ freshness stuff Garmin offer. Zwift will sync with Connect/ TrainingPeaks directly?

3 - Personal preference. I use TrainerRoad, and it's much easier to follow cadence drills and power target with erg. Personally I wouldn't be without erg - why add to the cognitive load trying to maintain power numbers if you don't have too? It's part of the benefit of a smart turbo.

4 & 5 - Never used it - i'd say most create in TrainingPeaks and sync into zwift. I use TrainerRoad for workouts and my training plan

AppleTV has been bullet proof for Zwift for me since I got it. Casting my phone would fall over on big events. Minimum PC specs are quite high - AppleTV is the best bang for your buck zwift device - only the bluetooth limits a potential issue.

Randy Archer

Macy0161 wrote: »

1 - I'd verify your power meter v the smart turbo. Mine was margin of error, and obviously captured in a different place pedals/ cranks v cassette. I generally use smart turbo.

2 - Not sure I'd see the point? Only reasons I could see would be pedal dynamics, and if you were using the training effect/ freshness stuff Garmin offer. Zwift will sync with Connect/ TrainingPeaks directly?

3 - Personal preference. I use TrainerRoad, and it's much easier to follow cadence drills and power target with erg. Personally I wouldn't be without erg - why add to the cognitive load trying to maintain power numbers if you don't have too? It's part of the benefit of a smart turbo.

4 & 5 - Never used it - i'd say most create in TrainingPeaks and sync into zwift. I use TrainerRoad for workouts and my training plan

AppleTV has been bullet proof for Zwift for me since I got it. Casting my phone would fall over on big events. Minimum PC specs are quite high - AppleTV is the best bang for your buck zwift device - only the bluetooth limits a potential issue.

Thanks

Yes, I agree I will test both sources out - I heard the difference was a disaster last year but firm wares might have improved it . Apparently the suito was giving lower readings than the pm (of course that’s assuming their pm are accurate lol)

Small margin of error between your pm and st , that’s good, if I got that I could easily live with. Would prefer not to have to use the batteries on the pm for indoor most of the time . (Always have a set in the saddle bag)

In an ideal world, I would like to rely on the trainer as the power source , after all that is partly why it was got . But if there’s large differences , I assume best use the pm just to make sure one has a consistent reading ?

I don’t have those fancy TE and freshness stuff for the Garmin edge so not Double recording Suits me . I just saw some of the racing rules , they recommend doing it - not that I would be racing much lol

Yes, Zwift will Sycn with TP and GC like it does with Strava

I hear you on the erg . That’s why one buy the trainer . But some days I need to work on the cadence while doing tempo and over and learn how to keep 90 rpm + and work on the gears ala on the road .

Might as well go premium on TP when I get a chance for detailed workouts . Easier to use too

Thanks

joey100

If you want to work on cadence ERG mode is great. It matches the resistance to your cadence so you hold the required power. You can then just concentrate on your cadence without worrying about power. The best way is to adjust your cadence smoothly rather than jumping from 70's to 100's and the trainer struggling to keep up. You don't necessarily need to have that pre planned into the session on the turbo, you can control that yourself.

If you are going to use the turbo more get yourself a good fan, it's the best thing you can have on the turbo.

Macy0161

Yes, I'd find it easier to hit target power and work on cadence with erg. On the road you have wind/ gradient/ surface so you won't be able to find a gear inside to use outside, I wouldn't have thought?

I've now two of these . First one was a game changer, added a second as I was remote over the summer so still training inside really made a big difference too.

Randy Archer

joey100 wrote: »

If you want to work on cadence ERG mode is great. It matches the resistance to your cadence so you hold the required power. You can then just concentrate on your cadence without worrying about power. The best way is to adjust your cadence smoothly rather than jumping from 70's to 100's and the trainer struggling to keep up. You don't necessarily need to have that pre planned into the session on the turbo, you can control that yourself.

If you are going to use the turbo more get yourself a good fan, it's the best thing you can have on the turbo.

Erg mode is great for cadence ? Brilliant ! That’s the reason my is set up this thread ,I accept that some of the questions might be stupid , it was to get yer experience

The question I raised on cadence instructions Being on the screen for work out (I know that cadence is always on the screen) is more a visual reminder as to what cadence I must be on at a given interval

Thanks

Foxmoves

I bought my first smart trainer few weeks ago and had a difference of 2.5% power between pedal based and smart trainer. Smart trainer lower.
For training, rather than Zwift, consistency on the power number on the trainer is the most Important really for structured work outs.

If u r using two bikes, easiest to leave the pedals on ur outdoor bike and use the power from the smart trainer only.

First time using ERG and u get used to it fairly quickly and as mentioned earlier, just a matter of changing cadence and the trainer adapts over a few seconds. If u change quickly, the trainer adapts in a few seconds.

The biggest thing is that u just need to not stop pedalling as hard to get going again without manually dropping the power

If u run the Exact same work out on the smart trainer app (Tracx) and Garmin (Paired to the trainer), Strava is usually smart enough to only take the workout once.

bazermc

I’m also looking to invest in a smart trainer/direct driver. It seems I can expect to pay at least 650 euro plus?

Randy Archer

bazermc wrote: »

I’m also looking to invest in a smart trainer/direct driver. It seems I can expect to pay at least 650 euro plus?

Suit can be got for about €620ish including postage on bike discount

Delivery via dpd was about 4 working days

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/elite-suito-887354

Of course, you will need a Eu - U.K. plug adaptOr as the lead is the European two pin plug but that’s only an extra fiver .

Cassette n block comes with the trainer

Randy Archer

Macy0161 wrote: »

Yes, I'd find it easier to hit target power and work on cadence with erg. On the road you have wind/ gradient/ surface so you won't be able to find a gear inside to use outside, I wouldn't have thought?

I've now two of these . First one was a game changer, added a second as I was remote over the summer so still training inside really made a big difference too.

Christ, good one. Definitely need a fan (knew that already) mother of god it’s extremely tough to ride without one .

Does it come with a remote ? Doesn’t look like it. I see that many of the popular indoor fans like Lasko etc are more American and stuff like this are recommended to U.K.

Do you just turn it on full blast at the start , knowing you will be warm quickly enough anyway ?

Randy Archer

Randy Archer wrote: »

Suit can be got for about €620ish including postage on bike discount

Delivery via dpd was about 4 working days

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/elite-suito-887354

Of course, you will need a Eu - U.K. plug adaptOr as the lead is the European two pin plug but that’s only an extra fiver .

Cassette n block comes with the trainer

I should point out, that the Suito works fine, but the block is rubbish . No grip on the bottom, which is really important. However, it comes with a cassette and for the price i bought mine (e 620 including delivery) I can’t complain, good blocks can be got for 30 quid

dinneenp

Hi,

If this is seen as hijacking let me know and I'll create a new thread but it's the same topic but with a dumb TT- a Tacx Blue Motion/

- if I use it with my road/current type until I'm sure that I like a TT and will use it, will this wear down the tyre much? Or does it take hundreds of kms before it wears?

- To use it with Zwift someone recommended a https://www.amazon.co.uk/CooSpo-Cadence-Bluetooth-Runtastic-Openrider/dp/B07MXGTCSP/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=bluetooth+speed+sensor&qid=1601301782&sr=8-7. Is that all I need (besides a Zwift account & phone/laptop?

- Does the above allow me to use the TT with Peloton as well?

- anything else to note that hasn't been mentioned in this thread already?
Thanks,
Pa.

SwissToni

Top Tip #1 Get a Fan


Top Tip #2 Get another Fan*




* especially if your are going to race.


This one is good and it's nice and neat

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honeywell-HT900E1-HT900E-Turbo-Fan/dp/B001VEJFT6/ref=asc_df_B001VEJFT6/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=256159114462&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3749736484220215069&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007858&hvtargid=pla-475428995967&psc=1

dahat

Two fans.
Hydrate loads.
Treat it like a road spin for food etc.
No harm dropping a gel before a high intensity session, Zwift can be hard work.
Towels on the ground for the inevitable hock, no one speaks of these but they happen indoors.