What is reasonable for dropping and collecting?

correction

My sister (stay at home mother) has been asked by a friend of her husband to drop off and collect their child to school as his wife has just started a new job. The child would be dropped off at half 8 at my sisters house, she would then drop her to school at 10 past 9. She would then be collected by my sister at 2 before being collected from her house at half 2.

My sister is happy to do it but the friends are insistent on paying her and has asked how much it would cost a day. She has no idea what would be fair to say and nor do I tbh. We were thinking a tenner a day but really aren't sure.

Anyone know what would be a fair ask for something as little as this?

starbaby2003

correction wrote: »

My sister (stay at home mother) has been asked by a friend of her husband to drop off and collect their child to school as his wife has just started a new job. The child would be dropped off at half 8 at my sisters house, she would then drop her to school at 10 past 9. She would then be collected by my sister at 2 before being collected from her house at half 2.

My sister is happy to do it but the friends are insistent on paying her and has asked how much it would cost a day. She has no idea what would be fair to say and nor do I tbh. We were thinking a tenner a day but really aren't sure.

Anyone know what would be a fair ask for something as little as this?

€10 a day is €50 a week. That would be on the steep side to me especially for friends. Could she ask for a token if she doesn’t want to take money. A voucher once a month for somewhere.

Sesame

10 is very fair, its about an hour of childminding, plus transport costs, even if they are going that way anyway.

Princess Calla

It's not really little though.

It's an hour and a half child minding per day so 7 hrs per week. Over a 38 week school year. So basically a month.... I think all of us would have something to say if our employer said they were only going to pay us for 11 months instead of 12.

Also your sister needs to consider what happens if her kids are home sick.... Are they old enough to be left at home while doing the school run or will she need to bungle them all up to drop someone else's kid to school?

I'm sure there's times your sister may have asked another mum to collect her children if she was running late or had an appointment.... She will no longer be able to do this, she's now definitely tied to the 2 o clock pick up. She will also have to be up dressed showered etc before 8.

As for payment I'm not sure, but don't under value the responsibility of looking after another person's child.

GarIT

Cheapest childminder in we could find in the local area in Westmeath wanted €270 a week for almost the same. Just an extra hour in the evening.

Pretty much works out cheaper to not work, not have to pay tax and transfer tax credits across to the partner.

They are theoretically on call though if the child is sick and needs to be collected early or minded during the day.

ax530

know some people who are paying €12 for morning - leave child off to house circa 1 hour then walk to school.
I am not sure if the €12 is per family or per child

starbaby2003

Princess Calla wrote: »

It's not really little though.

It's an hour and a half child minding per day so 7 hrs per week. Over a 38 week school year. So basically a month.... I think all of us would have something to say if our employer said they were only going to pay us for 11 months instead of 12.

Also your sister needs to consider what happens if her kids are home sick.... Are they old enough to be left at home while doing the school run or will she need to bungle them all up to drop someone else's kid to school?

I'm sure there's times your sister may have asked another mum to collect her children if she was running late or had an appointment.... She will no longer be able to do this, she's now definitely tied to the 2 o clock pick up. She will also have to be up dressed showered etc before 8.

As for payment I'm not sure, but don't under value the responsibility of looking after another person's child.

I understood this is basically drop to the house, head to school. Collect. Less than an hour and essentially just doing drop off/ collection. I regularly do this for a neighbour and wouldn’t dream of taking money. Different obviously as no agreement in place so under any obligation but this is her FRIEND

cruizer101

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I understood this is basically drop to the house, head to school. Collect. Less than an hour and essentially just doing drop off/ collection. I regularly do this for a neighbour and wouldn’t dream of taking money. Different obviously as no agreement in place so under any obligation but this is her FRIEND

8:30 to 9:10 (plus whatever time to drive home) and 2:00 til 2:30 is over an hour an day.
And to be honest its more than that it is the commitment of having to do it every day, you loose flexibility that you previously had, that is worth a lot.

Its an awkward one as its a friend but it is a significant overall commitment.

Princess Calla

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I understood this is basically drop to the house, head to school. Collect. Less than an hour and essentially just doing drop off/ collection. I regularly do this for a neighbour and wouldn’t dream of taking money. Different obviously as no agreement in place so under any obligation but this is her FRIEND

Cruizier has said exactly my point. It's the commitment.

There's an absolutely massive difference in giving a friend a dig out and commiting yourself to 38 weeks a year.

It comes in at 7 hrs per week..... I wouldn't work for free one day a week, no more than I would expect a friend to work for me for free.

lazygal

Before she agrees I'd be very very sure to set the time in stone. I used to mind children in my home and one parent wanted a similar arrangement for about €50pw. It ended up a nightmare. The drop off time got earlier and the pick up time got later but she was too tight to offer more and I was dithering about how to approach her. It ended badly.
ETA I'd never mind the child of an acquaintance again. It's full of issues on both sides.

jlm29

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I understood this is basically drop to the house, head to school. Collect. Less than an hour and essentially just doing drop off/ collection. I regularly do this for a neighbour and wouldn’t dream of taking money. Different obviously as no agreement in place so under any obligation but this is her FRIEND

It’s not less than an hour though. If they drop the child at half eight, and school starts at 9.10, presumably it will take her a few min to get back into her car and home. So probably 9.20 before she’s home. That’s 50 min in the morning. And the child finishes school at 2, she’ll probably have to leave the house at 1.45 to get to the school, find parking etc. So that’s at least 90 min a day.
It’s not her friend either. It’s her husbands friend. There’s lots of unknowns though that would make a difference. Is she going to the school anyhow for her own kids, how far away is the school, is she loading small kids into the car on wet winters days to trip to and from the school?. Etc etc

They want to pay so that it’s a more formal arrangement I’m sure. If they weren’t paying for the service, the OPs sister might be more likely to have days where she couldn’t do the drops and pick ups because she had her own stuff on, and they might be stuck.
If I was availing of this service I’d expect to pay at least €15 a day, for the convenience of the service alone.
If I were the OPs sister, I would say to them “I have honestly got no idea what’s a fair amount for this, what do you suggest?” And I would go from there.

Meeoow

It's one thing doing it for your own kids, but no way I'd do it for 50 euros. School parking is atrocious. I did it for my own for a while. I was always on time, got a nice spot close to the door, then a few serial laties would rock up and block me in. Then dilly dally, and maybe stop for chats. School runs are brutal. And the traffic at school times is terrible.

lazygal

It's the hassle of not being on your own time after school pickup too. I like being able to head off with mine on a Friday for a hot chocolate, see the grandparents etc straight from school.

fiachraX

Once she gets money for it, it changes the dynamic. If she's doing them an unpaid favour, it's easier to say, "Actually it doesn't suit this Thursday. I want to drop in to the grandparents on my way home that day." If she gets paid, then it becomes much more of a fixed commitment. Something worth considering before she agrees.

I'd actually say that to them straight out because, as jlm29 said above, that commitment could be precisely why they want to pay. I'd say she'd be far better off making it clear from the outset that she specifically wants this to be informal and not a fixed commitment so that she has flexibility. So while she's happy to help out when it suits, it's not possible for her to make a more long-term arrangement. Could save a lot of heartache and bad feeling in the long run.

jrosen

Is your sister going to the school anyway for her own drop off or no? That would be a factor for me tbh. While the time isn't that long its the commitment.
I peronsally wouldnt restrict myself to that schedule unless it was financially worth my while

Sleeper12

If she changes or gets paid in any way then she will need nanny insurance on her car if she is driving. This is around 200 euros on top of the regular car insurance premium. She also needs nanny insurance for minding the child in her own home. She also needs to declare the income to revenue BUT she can earn up 15k tax free minding children in her own home.

If she receives no payment /vouchers etc then she does not need nanny insurance

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If she changes or gets paid in any way then she will need nanny insurance on her car if she is driving. This is around 200 euros on top of the regular car insurance premium. She also needs nanny insurance for minding the child in her own home. She also needs to declare the income to revenue BUT she can earn up 15k tax free minding children in her own home.

If she receives no payment /vouchers etc then she does not need nanny insurance

You can be sure it will be cash in hand so the equivalent of not getting paid as no record of anything.

Sleeper12

Taylor Uneven Ventilation wrote:

You can be sure it will be cash in hand so the equivalent of not getting paid as no record of anything.

That makes no sense. Cash in hand is illegal but apart from that there is no reason to hide it from revenue. It's totally tax free up to 15k. Then if there is a car accident op will have to lie to the insurance company as she is getting paid. If she tells the truth then they might not pay out

lazygal

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That makes no sense. Cash in hand is illegal but apart from that there is no reason to hide it from revenue. It's totally tax free up to 15k. Then if there is a car accident op will have to lie to the insurance company as she is getting paid. If she tells the truth then they might not pay out

Know a few minders who were stung by not registering with Revenue when Covid hit and were entitled to none of the social welfare supports available as a result. Income gone and no payments from social welfare as in the eyes of the state they were simply stay at home parents. You'd be really foolish not to register especially for pension entitlement etc.

Neyite

I've a similar set up (or did prior to covid) with a relative who also picks up her kids from the school- our arrangement was 3 days a week after school for 4 hrs and occasional mornings 8-9.10. She would not take payment. She gets a substantial gift each Christmas and June end of term from us instead.

That way she has the flexibility to move it around, or cancel - and the local creche is utilised instead on those occasions. There's sometimes been emergencies, or she's had an illness in her house she didn't want to pass on, or after-school dentist/ outpatient departments, half days etc. If my son goes home sick, she'll pick him up initially while one of us leaves work and gets there an hour later. I trust her completely. If she has to leave the kids -hers and mine- with a neighbour for example, I trust her judgement. I don't police what she feeds him or how she might have to give out to him for something.

It's a term time arrangement for us only. School holidays and midterms he attends child care or we take leave ourselves. I'd advise likewise for your sister - the last thing you want is to have your plans for Easter visiting grandparents ruined because you've this child to mind too. No matter how lovely the child might be, your sister and family needs family time too.

I would advise your sister to refuse payment, because then she has the flexibility and freedom but to ensure that the other parent also has a back up plan. It means that it's always a favour that can be withdrawn at her discretion instead of a service that must be provided because it's a monetary transaction.

Metroid diorteM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That makes no sense. Cash in hand is illegal but apart from that there is no reason to hide it from revenue. It's totally tax free up to 15k. Then if there is a car accident op will have to lie to the insurance company as she is getting paid. If she tells the truth then they might not pay out

It makes no sense... unless you're already dead from paperwork.

The problem isn't the payment. The problem is governments don't value convenience for their subjects.

I could generate sooo much more wealth but the complexity of how I would do it combined with the paperwork requirements mean I just dont. I just stick with my day job.

Red tape kills.

Sleeper12

lazygal wrote: »

Know a few minders who were stung by not registering with Revenue when Covid hit and were entitled to none of the social welfare supports available as a result. Income gone and no payments from social welfare as in the eyes of the state they were simply stay at home parents. You'd be really foolish not to register especially for pension entitlement etc.

They have an option to pay 500 per year PRSI. They don't have to pay it if they don't want to BUT the 500 counts as a full year paying full PRSI. This can make a massive difference to your state pension. It can make the difference between a means tested & non means tested pension.


Someone going cash in hand on this is nuts imo. I'd either decline all payment or notify revenue of the payment & I'd jump at the chance of paying the 500 euro PRSI

lazygal

Metroid diorteM wrote: »

It makes no sense... unless you're already dead from paperwork.

The problem isn't the payment. The problem is governments don't value convenience for their subjects.

I could generate sooo much more wealth but the complexity of how I would do it combined with the paperwork requirements mean I just dont. I just stick with my day job.

Red tape kills.

We employ a child minder. Do all the necessary paperwork for her. I don't add up the time we spend on it but at a push I'd say an hour every few months. The Revenue website is ridiculously easy to use.

correction

Want to thank everyone for their responses. To answer the main question I've seen, my sister does have a child of her own going to the same school so the drop off in the morning will be the same but her child does not leave school until 3 so the pick up is a separate trip.

The outcome I've just been informed was my sister deciding to ask for €30 a week but the friend insisted on paying €50 in the end so I suppose it's all worked out in the end. I also think she told me it wasn't even going to be for the full school year, just a few months.