Life on Venus?

JupiterKid

So it looks like Earth’s sister planet, Venus, an utterly inhospitable world at its surface with oven-like temperatures and crushing pressures, may harbour microbial life in its upper atmosphere.


https://astronomynow.com/2020/09/14/possible-evidence-found-for-life-on-venus/


These extraordinary claims by scientists will require more concrete evidence to be proven. It will probably take a sampling mission to the planet to know for certain. But it certainly does open up the possibility that we will need to re-think longstanding ideas of where life might be found, how it originates and how common it might be in the universe.

1990sman

and one day they'll be looking at us and our explanet wondering the same thing.
long after alien archeologists give up pulling preserved nappies out of the ground.
even the tin cans we throw up in the air will be gone and all information too.
as a species we haven't done much with ourselves since we started getting away with it.
apart from fancier gadgets which will one day leave us and smarter ways to kill each other for stuff, we havn't displayed a propensity for any real betterment.
now here's Gill with weather...

Quantum Erasure

No-one would have believed... few even considered...

1874

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

No-one would have believed... few even considered...

Id have thought Venus was inhospitable myself, based on anything I've read/come across, if they had said Mars , I'd be like, sounds possible.
Anyway, is it life or is it some chemical reaction or byproduct ?

Dyr

1990sman wrote: »

and one day they'll be looking at us and our explanet wondering the same thing.
long after alien archeologists give up pulling preserved nappies out of the ground.
even the tin cans we throw up in the air will be gone and all information too.
as a species we haven't done much with ourselves since we started getting away with it.
apart from fancier gadgets which will one day leave us and smarter ways to kill each other for stuff, we havn't displayed a propensity for any real betterment.
now here's Gill with weather...

We've developed at a frightening and expotential rate, 120 years ago we were earthbound, now we send our vehicles to Mars. We've had 20 years of environtmentalist fuelled nihilsim telling us we're parasites when everything in our evolution screams that we are a species that is hardwired to always explore for new enviornments

We're biologically chained to the earth but we could well create artifical intelligence in a silicon based format that can make it off this planet and survive the vast expanses of space, we were only ever a link in the evolutionary chain.

s1ippy

If there's life on a planet that inhospitable, it becomes an impossibility that the universe isn't absolutely teeming with organisms of different varieties we can't even conceive of.

Lougarden

1990sman wrote: »

and one day they'll be looking at us and our explanet wondering the same thing.
long after alien archeologists give up pulling preserved nappies out of the ground.
even the tin cans we throw up in the air will be gone and all information too.
as a species we haven't done much with ourselves since we started getting away with it.
apart from fancier gadgets which will one day leave us and smarter ways to kill each other for stuff, we havn't displayed a propensity for any real betterment.
now here's Gill with weather...

And our 90's CDs buried. As a species, we are actually doing a lot. It's the likes of us posting to boards or gaining gadgets that aren't really exploring..I'd argue that the astronauts and space scientists are not bothered about stuff and others do look for real betterment. You don't need Gill for the weather either

Overheal

tldr the compound they've identified is normally emitted by anaerobic organisms that live in an oxygen free environment. Scientists are thus left asking if the phosphine is in fact the result of anaerobic life on Venus, or, if there is some other yet undiscovered means of synthesis for phosphine.

iLikeWaffles

1990sman wrote: »

and one day they'll be looking at us and our explanet wondering the same thing.
long after alien archeologists give up pulling preserved nappies out of the ground.
even the tin cans we throw up in the air will be gone and all information too.
as a species we haven't done much with ourselves since we started getting away with it.
apart from fancier gadgets which will one day leave us and smarter ways to kill each other for stuff, we havn't displayed a propensity for any real betterment.
now here's Gill with weather...

Perhaps one day, but we can all make a conscious choice to change that predisposition.

One eyed Jack

JupiterKid wrote: »

It will probably take a sampling mission to the planet to know for certain.

If they run short of rocket fuel there’s plenty of phosphorus and sulphur in the atmosphere, but it certainly doesn’t sound hospitable to humans, the atmosphere would smell like farts, explosive ones!

Spleodar

If we assume for a moment that life is some kind of universal phenomenon that is actually present all over the universe, then we can assume it's possible that it may have found ways of using energy and matter in all sorts of creative ways that may be well outside what we assume to be the norms of biochemistry and biology as it exists on earth.

Even on earth there are extremophile organisms found in the vents of volcanoes and there's even been bacteria found living in nuclear reactors in power plants, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that something could have figured out a way of surviving on Venus if there's a source of energy (which is clearly abundant) and building blocks for life.

Even if you think of our own systems on earth, if you were unfamiliar with water, you could consider it quite a nasty solvent. It just so happens earth biology has figured out very impressive ways of using it and building itself of and in it.

When it comes to exploring the planets of our own solar system, we're only barely beginning to scratch the surface, so ruling anything in or out is just speculation really.

iLikeWaffles

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If they run short of rocket fuel there’s plenty of phosphorus and sulphur in the atmosphere, but it certainly doesn’t sound hospitable to humans, the atmosphere would smell like farts, explosive ones!

Smelling the atmosphere would melt your face off!

AllForIt

Sign of the times that this story isn't front page news.

This is a link to the presentation/press briefing they gave today.

Realt Dearg Sec

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Smelling the atmosphere would melt your face off!

Yeah I've made that atmosphere after a few stouts. Melted the face off my wife, at least that's how you'd describe the look on her when she woke me up.

Turns out women aren't from Venus.

fran38

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

No-one would have believed... few even considered...

I prefer the Richard Burton narration instead of the Liam Neeson effort.

US2

AllForIt wrote: »

Sign of the times that this story isn't front page news.

This is a link to the presentation/press briefing they gave today.

It's so sad how so few people are interested in this stuff these days, alot or even all of my friends (late 20s) have probably never looked up to the night sky in there life.
I don't think it's anything to do with covid that it's not big news, there is just little interest.

Overheal

AllForIt wrote: »

Sign of the times that this story isn't front page news.

This is a link to the presentation/press briefing they gave today.

Because it's not actually proof of life or anything at this stage. It's just a compelling argument for further investigation.

AllForIt

Overheal wrote: »

Because it's not actually proof of life or anything at this stage. It's just a compelling argument for further investigation.

I understand perfectly well what they are claiming. I did actually watch the link I posted. It's still very big news afaic.

Hamsterchops

Venusians.

EmmetSpiceland

Overheal wrote: »

Because it's not actually proof of life or anything at this stage. It's just a compelling argument for further investigation.

Remember the “bacteria” they found in that meteor? Or “Tabby’s Star”?

I’ll wait until they’ve got some “verifiable” proof before I get excited about this. Or when they’ve gone under the ice of Europa, or Enceladus.

Ficheall

I've just woken up. This image gets one chance to embed, otherwise fck it.
https://imgflip.com/i/4f0chw

filbert the fox

Why is any of this of interest to us?

The unique situation of the Goldilocks Earth can't be found in the entire universe so far and now we're wondering if the next door neighbour is the answer.
Lazy science.

These phosphines are the product of chemical reactions occurring in a unique Venusian setting - no mystery imo.

Hamsterchops

900° F on the planet's surface with a toxic mix of gasses too, although apparently as you go up into the atmosphere there is clear air to breathe!


...means only one thing, Pterodactyl type aliens flying around in the Venusian sky, never to land for fear of cooking or choking to death :eek:

Quantum Erasure

Surely there's some biological chemistry that could take place at those temperatures and pressures? Who says it has to be anything like Earth based life...

namloc1980

filbert the fox wrote: »

Why is any of this of interest to us?

The unique situation of the Goldilocks Earth can't be found in the entire universe so far and now we're wondering if the next door neighbour is the answer.
Lazy science.

These phosphines are the product of chemical reactions occurring in a unique Venusian setting - no mystery imo.

If it's not of interest to you why are you posting about it?

Think it's interesting and certainly opens the question of what is producing the phosphine. Likely some unique chemistry on Venus but unusual atmospheric microbes can't be ruled out.

Gregor Samsa

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Surely there's some biological chemistry that could take place at those temperatures and pressures? Who says it has to be anything like Earth based life...

According to this article:

Dr William Bains, who's affiliated to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in the US, is a biochemist on the team. He's studied various combinations of different compounds expected to be on Venus; he's examined whether volcanoes, lightning and even meteorites could play a role in making PH3 - and all of the chemical reactions he's investigated, he says, are 10,000 times too weak to produce the amount of phosphine that's been observed.

But I think you're right. I think the most likely source is a non-biological chemical reaction that just isn't understood. The chances of any extraterrestrial life having the same chemistry as Earth bases life seems extraordinarily slim to me. There seems to be a lot of jumping the gun in some of the reporting and commentary.

Gregor Samsa

Hamsterchops wrote: »

900° F on the planet's surface with a toxic mix of gasses too, although apparently as you go up into the atmosphere there is clear air to breathe!

No, there's no breathable air. The temperatures at 50km are described as "shirtsleeves conditions" - which is certainly pleasant in comparison to the surface, but it's still mostly carbon dioxide and sulphuric acid.

AllForIt

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Surely there's some biological chemistry that could take place at those temperatures and pressures? Who says it has to be anything like Earth based life...

There are organisms that live in what we would consider 'extreme' conditions on earth, for example at the bottom of the sea where there is no light with very low temps and in volcanoes where it's extremely hot.

The idea of microbes living in the atmosphere is an odd concept but it has been though to be a possibility for decades apparently.

mikhail

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Smelling the atmosphere would melt your face off!

I think there's one photo from the surface of Venus, and only a few from low altitude. There's so few because that's all they can take before the probes fail in the heat and pressure. There are very few places I would have less imagined life existing. I wonder, if it turns out to be true (and bear in mind that currently it's one indirect piece of evidence), whether this is some extremophile seeded from earth or elsewhere, or the last remnant of something that arose on Venus before the greenhouse gasses saw runaway heating.

iLikeWaffles

filbert the fox wrote: »

Why is any of this of interest to us?

The unique situation of the Goldilocks Earth can't be found in the entire universe so far and now we're wondering if the next door neighbour is the answer.
Lazy science.

These phosphines are the product of chemical reactions occurring in a unique Venusian setting - no mystery imo.

Why is it of interest? Because it will show that life can exist in the most extreme conditions, no longer will be looking for that perfect planet to find life; our options to look for it have increased. If life exists on multiple planets in our solar system then there is an even higher chance that it has already evolved to a point which could be seen as intelligent on exoplanets and in some cases on planets not in that Goldilocks zone.

mikhail wrote: »

I think there's one photo from the surface of Venus, and only a few from low altitude. There's so few because that's all they can take before the probes fail in the heat and pressure. There are very few places I would have less imagined life existing. I wonder, if it turns out to be true (and bear in mind that currently it's one indirect piece of evidence), whether this is some extremophile seeded from earth or elsewhere, or the last remnant of something that arose on Venus before the greenhouse gasses saw runaway heating.

I am aware of the past missions. Vega 2, sent by Russia, is most recent successful lander which was 35 years ago. Technology has come a long way since then we don't even need to leave what is sent on the planet anymore. A balloon with a microscope could possibly be the best thing to gather and analyse the atmosphere.

MadYaker

Fcuk microbial life on venus. I'm more interested in having a chat with whoever was flying those tic tac shaped things through our atmosphere as recorded by a US navy pilot a few years ago.

iLikeWaffles

MadYaker wrote: »

Fcuk microbial life on venus. I'm more interested in having a chat with whoever was flying those tic tac shaped things through our atmosphere as recorded by a US navy pilot a few years ago.

Insulting the most likely community of people to tell you is no way to find that out.

Nabber

These tabloid headlines tend to destroy the credibility of the science.

They make folks numb to the importance of the findings.

I don’t think they will find evidence of life.

iLikeWaffles

Nabber wrote: »

These tabloid headlines tend to destroy the credibility of the science.

They make folks numb to the importance of the findings.

I don’t think they will find evidence of life.

Well their purpose is to sell, so headlines like alien life on Venus or to take the title of this thread as the prime example life on Venus (still missing the potential/possible/prospect of @ MODS)