Will we survive the 'Triple Whammy"?

Hamsterchops

Global Warming, Coronavirus (Covid-19) & Brexit.

Obviously Brexit is not going to wipeout the human race, but it's an annoying sideshow that only adds to the current noise from the other two Biggies!

God help us if something else arrives...

Personally, I'm keeping an open mind about all three. Not much we can do about Global warming (man made or not), and coronavirus needs a vaccine, so we'll just have to wait for that, and as for Brexit, well we in Ireland could be severely impacted, although I suspect things will be ironed out between Ireland & Britain, and will not be half as bad as some predict..

All thoughts welcome.

completedit

We didn't start the fire. Life will move on and we will all adapt to whatever the reality is of the day.

Brexit will eventually turn out to be much to do about nothing. Are WT0 terms even that restrictive? Isn't the whole point of the WTO to bring about global free trade? The EU and other supranational blocs are just intermediaries at this stage in the development. So over the next decades, the UK should align itself more with the EU especially as the dust settles and the divide wanes.

LessOutragePlz

We'll be fine just throw more money at it and we'll be grand.

dxhound2005

In the past a pandemic would have wiped out half the population of Europe. If you include the "Third World" in We, just be grateful to live in one of the most prosperous places on the planet. And at the best time in history to be alive from the point of view of life expectancy and medical treatments.

4068ac1elhodqr

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

the purple tin

Food shortages next probably? Terrible summer for arable crops.
Bees being wiped out too which has a knock-on effect.

Joey Enough Swordfish

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

Why would it?

Nobody is going to travel from France to Ireland in a dinghy.

Climate change is an infinitely greater threat to us.

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would it?
Nobody is going to travel from France to Ireland in a dinghy.

Is this a joke? Travel will be via HGV mostly, really didn't think that needed clarified.

Even the uk's channel water crossings (hundreds per day) are far below the traditional traffickers established haulage routes.
There was already several incidences of lads juping out of trucks in Wexford port, and couple of leaps from gangs of lads out of vans in Co.Laois.

Joey Enough Swordfish

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Is this a joke? Travel will be via HGV mostly, really didn't think that needed clarified.

Even the uk's channel water crossings (hundreds per day) are far below the traditional traffickers established haulage routes.
There was already several incidences of lads juping out of trucks in Wexford port, and couple of leaps from gangs of lads out of vans in Co.Laois.

Vastly different to people traveling in a dinghy.

Traveling in HGVs is a near death sentence. A very small percentage would survive that sort of journey/border checks.

If it did become an issue it'd be sorted with more rigorous checks and/or penalties for HGV owners.

The crowd that got into the back of the truck in Wexford thought they were heading to Britain.

biko

Can humanity survive more wokism?

LessOutragePlz

biko wrote: »

Can humanity survive more wokism?

What we will do when there's nobody left to cancel?

screamer

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

It’ll still be the UK as destination of choice and with them out of the EU, France will just let them flood over the channel. How the UK ever thought leaving EU would help them to stop this illegal migration is beyond me.

4068ac1elhodqr

Deleted User wrote: »

Vastly different to people traveling in a dinghy.

Agree, of course it is, hence why haulage is the most popular method.

Deleted User wrote: »

Traveling in HGVs is a near death sentence. A very small percentage would survive that sort of journey/border checks.

Traveling in HGVs is hundreds of times safer than dinghies, hence it's the defacto high-volume method, even from the distant far-East, direct into Western Europe.

There are weekly stories in the uk of lads jumping out of car roof boxes, now that particular method is very high risk.
The enhanced border checks (very few trucks are even x-ray'd*) would apply for EU to new non-EU Brexitland only.

*Only 1 out of every 400 trucks are checked at Zeebrugge port, there is not (nor likely ever) the manpower available, to check every single item of haulage. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/24/belgians-check-one-400-containers-port-chinese-migrants-smuggled/

France/Belgium etc. to Ireland would largely be the same eu-protocol as is now.

4068ac1elhodqr

screamer wrote: »

It’ll still be the UK as destination of choice and with them out of the EU, France will just let them flood over the channel. How the UK ever thought leaving EU would help them to stop this illegal migration is beyond me.

Could be right, however they will have the justification to hire hundreds, if not thousands more border staff. Also Patel won't mess about from 1st Jan onwards, sure look what they're already currently doing to existing agreements.

dxhound2005

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

The economic type will provide the workforce for the jobs that Irish people are not doing. That is the experience in rich countries like the UK and the US. Your and my ancestors would have arrived here by the sea route, after the happy time when there were no humans on the island.

Rodney Bathgate

We need more doctors and engineers.

utyh2ikcq9z76b

We are moving into the great extinction

4068ac1elhodqr

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The economic type will provide the workforce for the jobs that Irish people are not doing.

The legal (EU) or visa based economic type certainly will/may (assuming there is an abundant supply in post brexit-covid 2021 world).

The illegal type often prefer the black market, as it avoids any/all taxes (in addition to any welfare top-up), and is a very common technique, to pay back their owed traffickers or gang masters by working for very small change.

topper75

biko wrote: »

Can humanity survive more wokism?

I can see biko now kneeling on a beach and cursing 'Damn you' with a battered Daniel O'Connell statue poking out of the sand behind him.

But I'm going to have to come up with a snappier title than Planet of the Transexual Negro Muslims.

NickNickleby

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

What we will do when there's nobody left to cancel?

Oh Wow!, so there is hope for us..... herd immunity from Wokism.

quokula

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

The UK takes in a tiny number of migrants compared to most European countries, it's just their extremely warped media treats half a dozen people on a dinghy as if it's some kind of mass invasion.

Even if 100% of migrants to the UK stopped going there and dispersed around the rest of Europe, the numbers would be so tiny as to be unnoticeable. And the ones going to the UK are generally going there because they have connections there, Brexit won't change that.

Climate Change will necessitate true mass migration from warmer parts of the world to cooler parts though, as crop failures and droughts become ever more common in some regions. That could be an issue for Ireland (though not as big an issue for us as it will be for the countries that people will be forced to mass emigrate from of course)

4068ac1elhodqr

quokula wrote: »

The UK takes in a tiny number of migrants compared to most European countries, it's just their extremely warped media treats half a dozen people on a dinghy as if it's some kind of mass invasion.

Agree the dinghies are a small, tiny fraction, and make headlines due to the sheer visibility factor (400 in one day last week), most trafficking of course is non-visable and out of sight.

i) Ministers say they do not know the scale of illegal immigration.
ii) No official estimate has been published since 2005.
iii) LSE put an estimate of circa 1/2 million in the uk
iv) The Times say it's 1.2m (about the population of greater Dublin), and the highest number (of illegal migrants) of any EU country. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-has-most-illegal-immigrants-in-the-eu-wvg9wlcmx

quokula wrote: »

... And the ones going to the UK are generally going there because they have connections there, Brexit won't change that.

...And the fact that France has hardened it's stance and appeals process, and removal times isn't a factor? And the fact that France requires PhotoID at all times on the person, which prevents fraud and black market labour activity?

quokula wrote: »

Climate Change will necessitate true mass migration from warmer parts of the world to cooler parts though, as crop failures and droughts become ever more common in some regions. That could be an issue for Ireland (though not as big an issue for us as it will be for the countries that people will be forced to mass emigrate from of course)

True, but not a direct issue for Ire, well not for a decade or two perhaps, the single best hope against CC is clean energy technologies, hydrogen or novel cold fusion development to wipe out coal and other fossile fuels.

Deebles McBeebles

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

Four replies to make it about migrants hahaha, shoehorn it in there!

If you seriously think global warming is less of a threat than some people moving country, you are deluded.

4068ac1elhodqr

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

If you seriously think global warming is less of a threat than some people moving country, you are deluded.

Was simply clarifying the misleading point made by a poster (The UK takes in a tiny number of migrants compared to most European countries).

When there are estimates available suggesting the exact and complete opposite, and that it has the highest (1.2m) of any single EU state.

Will potatoes stop growing next 20years due to the ever present and eternal issue of climate change? Nope. Well unless the ice age suddenly re-appears. You are highly deluded if you reckon the green fields are suddenly going to vanish from the start of 2021.

Will 100k jobs be lost after Jan 2021 (not including covid's effects)? Perhaps.
Will there be an influx of illegal migration after Brexitland emmerges? Perhaps.

Kylta

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Global Warming, Coronavirus (Covid-19) & Brexit.

Obviously Brexit is not going to wipeout the human race, but it's an annoying sideshow that only adds to the current noise from the other two
God help us if something else arrives...

Personally, I'm keeping an open mind about all three. Not much we can do about Global warming (man made or not), and coronavirus needs a vaccine, so we'll just have to wait for that, and as for Brexit, well we in Ireland could be severely impacted, although I suspect things will be ironed out between Ireland & Britain, and will not be half as bad as some predict..

All thoughts welcome.

Don't worry about any of the above, there is an alien invasion about to happen. The little aliens are the size of pin heads and once they enter you blood stream they head straight for your erogenous zones. All humans will die from orgasmic overload. Causing people to die with a smile.

Ted_YNWA

Thread moved to CA.

I'd recommend fi posting any immigration opinions adhere to the Charter.

Eric Cartman

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

Absolutely. Stemming the flow of illegal migration is a bigger issue in the short and medium term and a bigger risk to us than climate change

ChikiChiki

In fairness to us who have just turned 30 + , we have had a lifetime of fairly good to date and still do. There is a lot to be grateful for.

I think of older generations who went through extreme poverty, world wars, multiple recessions, and to be at the end of their lives and faced with a pandemic which could kill them.

This is a first major test for many of us and a reminder of what is important in life.

Silentcorner

The question should be what whammy will the media cycle cling to once Brexit and Covid is behind us...

Until a time comes when most people realise that it is media that is the virus!!!

I find it quite funny that a lot of posters here are saying immigration is the problem, not climate change

Wait til they get a load of the immigration that'll happen in the next 10 years precisely because of climate change. Australians will start moving soon. A lot of them would have Irish roots, a lot of Americans as well, look at what's happening on Oregon and California, not to mention the storms that are getting worse each year.

We speak their language, have good arable land and the cultures aren't that different. I imagine a good few thousand would be entitled to passports from Irish born grandparents as well.

Now, they'll be white, so I imagine a fair few posters won't have problems with them coming over.

Overheal

Joey Enough Swordfish wrote: »

Surely 'migration' (the illegal-economic type) would be the 3rd significant localised factor (not global warming).

The uk is experiencing hundreds of (non-eu) arrivals across the Eng Channel, per day (excluding haulage).
In a post-brexit world, wouldn't Ireland will be the new destination of choice from Calais etc, rather than the uk.

Migration and Climate Change are inexorable. As climate change makes huge swaths of the middle east, africa, south america, etc etc inhospitable, billions of people will be displaced and move away from equatorial regions. Droughts and natural disasters lead to scarcity and instability, civil strife, etc. and eventually full on civil wars and so forth. It's already been happening.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely. Stemming the flow of illegal migration is a bigger issue in the short and medium term and a bigger risk to us than climate change

Only if you fail to see how the former is fueled primarily by the latter.

.anon.

biko wrote: »

Can humanity survive more wokism?

When/if they eventually tire of monotonously saying 'woke' over and over again, what Americanism will people on Boards then latch onto?

Thelonious Monk

I have noticed lately that people actually seem to be accepting that climate change is real, even on boards. Just watching the fires in Oregon on TV now, due to extreme temperatures. I wonder what things will be like in 20 years.

Church on Tuesday

screamer wrote: »

It’ll still be the UK as destination of choice and with them out of the EU, France will just let them flood over the channel. How the UK ever thought leaving EU would help them to stop this illegal migration is beyond me.

Lies from Mr. Farage.

Eric Cartman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I have noticed lately that people actually seem to be accepting that climate change is real, even on boards. Just watching the fires in Oregon on TV now, due to extreme temperatures. I wonder what things will be like in 20 years.

I think most people have always accepted its real, most just dont accept the countries under water in 10 years or that europe should continue to improve while the chinese, india, africa and south america continue to do absolutely nothing

Donald Trump

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I have noticed lately that people actually seem to be accepting that climate change is real, even on boards. Just watching the fires in Oregon on TV now, due to extreme temperatures. I wonder what things will be like in 20 years.

It's all the cows.


But all these useless hippy vegans won't do their part to help us keep their numbers under control by eating a few.

ExMachina1000

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

What we will do when there's nobody left to cancel?

Woke cannibalism. They'll cancel themselves

Montage of Feck

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why would it?

Nobody is going to travel from France to Ireland in a dinghy.

Climate change is an infinitely greater threat to us.

Most just fly in. So in a way they will be adding to climate change.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it quite funny that a lot of posters here are saying immigration is the problem, not climate change

Wait til they get a load of the immigration that'll happen in the next 10 years precisely because of climate change. Australians will start moving soon. A lot of them would have Irish roots, a lot of Americans as well, look at what's happening on Oregon and California, not to mention the storms that are getting worse each year.

We speak their language, have good arable land and the cultures aren't that different. I imagine a good few thousand would be entitled to passports from Irish born grandparents as well.

Now, they'll be white, so I imagine a fair few posters won't have problems with them coming over.

Why not? Aussies have a comparable culture, they share most of our values, their laws aren't so dissimilar, already speak the language, and have an excellent level of education.

White people (whether European, Aussies, Americans) tend to integrate far better when settling in another western nation, than migrants from Africa, M.East, etc. Rather large percentages of those coming from non-white nations, are lacking in the education and skills needed to be employed at a level where they can fully support themselves.

So, yes... I would favor immigration from Oz, or other western nations, over immigration from Africa. The only way for Ireland to provide a comparable lifestyle (to Irish people) for non-western migrants, is to give welfare/financial support, which increases the burden on the taxpayer. Westerners/White people are more likely to be have the education/skills to support themselves.

You want to make it about race... I prefer to deal with practicalities. It's not racism. Skilled/educated non-whites who are fully capable of obtaining work, and supporting themselves independently are very welcome.

Double whammy. We don't need to worry about global warming, it's decades off. Whether we'll survive the money grab in the name of it is another story though.

amacca

Deleted User wrote: »

Why not? Aussies have a comparable culture, they share most of our values, their laws aren't so dissimilar, already speak the language, and have an excellent level of education.

White people (whether European, Aussies, Americans) tend to integrate far better when settling in another western nation, than migrants from Africa, M.East, etc. Rather large percentages of those coming from non-white nations, are lacking in the education and skills needed to be employed at a level where they can fully support themselves.

So, yes... I would favor immigration from Oz, or other western nations, over immigration from Africa. The only way for Ireland to provide a comparable lifestyle (to Irish people) for non-western migrants, is to give welfare/financial support, which increases the burden on the taxpayer. Westerners/White people are more likely to be have the education/skills to support themselves.

You want to make it about race... I prefer to deal with practicalities. It's not racism. Skilled/educated non-whites who are fully capable of obtaining work, and supporting themselves independently are very welcome.

from my point of view the more people packed into this island the more the environment will suffer.........regardless of the colour of their skin or socio economic status......I would favour no migration and some sort of population control before a natural disaster/plague or worse sorts it out for us and hundreds if not thousands of years have to elapse before our environment is capable of supporting a stable human population in a sustainable way........or a change of lifestyle......or a change of economic model......this x% growth a year is quite clearly unsustainable unless you have unlimited resources.....we will need to crack a viable means of interstellar travel if that is to continue long term

TheBlackPill

Overheal wrote: »

Migration and Climate Change are inexorable. As climate change makes huge swaths of the middle east, africa, south america, etc etc inhospitable, billions of people will be displaced and move away from equatorial regions. Droughts and natural disasters lead to scarcity and instability, civil strife, etc. and eventually full on civil wars and so forth. It's already been happening.



Only if you fail to see how the former is fueled primarily by the latter.

Israel has the same issues with drought etc. They have a booming agricultural sector. hmmm. i wonder what the difference is?

amacca

amacca wrote: »

from my point of view the more people packed into this island the more the environment will suffer.........regardless of the colour of their skin or socio economic status......I would favour no migration and some sort of population control before a natural disaster/plague or worse sorts it out for us and hundreds if not thousands of years have to elapse before our environment is capable of supporting a stable human population in a sustainable way........or a change of lifestyle......or a change of economic model......this x% growth a year is quite clearly unsustainable unless you have unlimited resources.....we will need to crack a viable means of interstellar travel if that is to continue long term

We had 8.5million people in this country before.

We are incredibly underpopulated.

the purple tin

the purple tin wrote: »

Food shortages next probably? Terrible summer for arable crops.
Bees being wiped out too which has a knock-on effect.

To be honest, the bee's are the biggest worry.

dhaughton99

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

We need more doctors and engineers.

I think you mean bottom scrubbers in old folks homes on 11 an hour.

Gruffalux

The hugest mega cities of the early Bronze Age like Mohenjo daro collapsed due in great part to climate change. Civilisations have advanced and regressed since the dawn of time - look at pottery - often much finer in earlier antiquity than in periods that followed and often because of climate changes making living harder. Swathes of people have migrated since time immemorial. The barbarian hordes from the North - Visigoths and Vandals - swept off the sophisticated Roman Empire in the 400s. And those Germanic tribes were driven to invade elsewhere by them being chased off by invading Huns from Central Asia. 50 million died in the 1918 flu pandemic. The black death in the 14th century took up to 100- 200 million people - and at a time when the world population was about 450 - 500 million. The Plague of Justinian took half the people of Europe in the 6th century. World War 2 saw 3% of the people in the world at the time die - 85 million. Brexit is not worth anymore thought than a boil on the arse of an invisible flea in historical terms. Dinosaurs commanded the earth for 165 million years and went extinct 65 million years ago. Human like creatures have been here only about 7 million years, and homo sapiens less than 200,000 ( well unless you listen to people like Michael Cremo, who is sweet, but I am not convinced). In the worst mass extinction event on this planet 96% of all marine life and 70% of all land animals died off - the Permian Triassic Extinction event of 250 million years ago. Volcanoes likely to blame. And yet here we are, all 7.8 billion of us, looking like swanks. It is an awful waste of all that aeons of survival to spare a single moment to listen to a single word about the manufactured shyte that is Brexit.

amacca

Deleted User wrote: »

We had 8.5million people in this country before.

We are incredibly underpopulated.

Making a statement like that depends on what you think is a sustainable amount of people per square kilometre (or whatever unit of area measurement you are having yourself) I suppose

At the rate a citizen of a developed country consumes (mea culpa admittedly) now.......I would be of the opinion 8.5 million is unsustainable long term.......I live in this country too, ive seen the places where people lived back then abandoned.....small two room cottages where a family with up to 13 kids lived eating what they could scrape off the land or similar overcrowding in tenements etc.....yes it's true thst level of poverty existed because we were a colony and food/resources etc were shipped off the island but it still doesnt change the fact those people didnt have cars, didnt use air travel, didnt have mass produced throwaway clothes, % of their food flow from halfway around the globe etc and only conttibuted biodegradeable matter to the waste stream....id argue thid planet is overpopulated now given the damage we are doing and its either cut the numbers drastically or change the way of life drastically or thitd option suffer the consewuences at some point in the future where war/famine/natural disaster etc achieves one or both of those things anyway

Without major adjustments to the way we live.....changes to agriculture, education, governance, planning, transport. etc etc the population this planet is at now isnt sustainable.....just because we had it in the past or the netherlands has more now in a smallet area doesnt make it sustainable.

I dont see it happening without major social upheaval .....I think its the way its going to go everywhere.........

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We had 8.5million people in this country before.

We are incredibly underpopulated.

For a purely agrarian society.

Times have changed, as have what's needed to provide the nation we have today.

To provide for a population you describe we would need to revert to an agrarian society, with few demands on a modern infrastructure (health services, transportation, power, etc). The quality of life we have today would need to disappear. Lacking any desirable natural resources except for food production, we wouldn't have the capabilities to pay for the importation of luxuries, and the needed resources to maintain a functioning modern lifestyle.

We are not incredibly underpopulated, not if you want to live in a functioning modern society. If you want to live in a 3rd world nation, then, yes we could have a lot more people, with little way of providing for them except for food. But would you really want to live in 1950s Ireland?