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Quick Rule Question

  • 06-09-2020 10:39pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ ger664


    A situation that arose today. First Drive went 50M to the right into a bush. Played a Provisional ball. Straight down the middle.

    1) Can the first ball be declared lost on the tee or do you have to make an attempt to look for it

    2) Ball was found in the bush and is obviously unplayable is the provisional ball now out of play and you have to return to the tee or take a lateral drop and then play your 3rd shot.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 mike12


    ger664 wrote: »
    A situation that arose today. First Drive went 50M to the right into a bush. Played a Provisional ball. Straight down the middle.

    1) Can the first ball be declared lost on the tee or do you have to make an attempt to look for it

    2) Ball was found in the bush and is obviously unplayable is the provisional ball now out of play and you have to return to the tee or take a lateral drop and then play your 3rd shot.

    If you don't say provisional you are playing 3 off the tee.
    Correct on point 2


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    2) also can go back in line with the flag as far as you want.

    You dont have to look for your first ball (even if you declare the second a provisional)
    a ball is deemed lost, not declared lost.
    Its deemed lost if not found after 3 mins or another ball is put into play (either on the tee or by playing a subsequent shot with your provisional at a point at or beyond where you could reasonably expect the original ball to be)

    Note that someone else can look for your ball, even if you dont want them to...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭ ger664


    GreeBo wrote: »
    2) also can go back in line with the flag as far as you want.

    You dont have to look for your first ball (even if you declare the second a provisional)
    a ball is deemed lost, not declared lost.
    Its deemed lost if not found after 3 mins or another ball is put into play (either on the tee or by playing a subsequent shot with your provisional at a point at or beyond where you could reasonably expect the original ball to be)

    Note that someone else can look for your ball, even if you dont want them to...

    Unfortunately I didn't get down the fairway quick enough to play my 4th.

    The issue arose when a playing partner had a quick look for the ball and found it.

    Was a bit of discussion so I played the first ball from the tee again and stuck it into the same bush and scratched the hole.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Generally you only hit your provisional a second time because you have not reached the area you think your first ball is lost, time saving effort I assume.
    You need to declare the ball lost as you were passing the bush I'd say, that would be the safest, also safe just to say to others to keeping moving and not be wasting time looking for it


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    slave1 wrote: »
    Generally you only hit your provisional a second time because you have not reached the area you think your first ball is lost, time saving effort I assume.
    You need to declare the ball lost as you were passing the bush I'd say, that would be the safest, also safe just to say to others to keeping moving and not be wasting time looking for it

    You cannot declare your ball lost.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Deemed, semantics, get up to and hit your provisional in this case


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    slave1 wrote: »
    Deemed, semantics

    Sorry, but it's not semantics at all.

    You "declare" your ball lost but I can look for it and find it and now you have to play it.

    If your ball is "deemed" lost then it's gone and there is nothing that anyone (including yourself) can do to change that.

    Two *totally* different outcomes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭ brick tamland


    I think thats one rule that should be looked at and changed. I think in that case you should be able to use the Provo rather than having to go back to the tee and re-hit. Ive seen it happen before and it backed up the course a fair bit.

    Ive a memory of Sergio doing similar a few years ago somewhere, and hitting a good provo before shouting at people looking for his original ball to stop as he didnt want to have to go back to the tee and re-hit another as it would have been unplayable from where it was.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    I think thats one rule that should be looked at and changed. I think in that case you should be able to use the Provo rather than having to go back to the tee and re-hit. Ive seen it happen before and it backed up the course a fair bit.

    Ive a memory of Sergio doing similar a few years ago somewhere, and hitting a good provo before shouting at people looking for his original ball to stop as he didnt want to have to go back to the tee and re-hit another as it would have been unplayable from where it was.

    The rule is specifically designed to *not* allow you to choose between 2 live balls.

    Otherwise I would hit a provo on every par 3 where I dont hit my first close, just in case I hole out for a 3...


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭ fred funk }{


    I think thats one rule that should be looked at and changed. I think in that case you should be able to use the Provo rather than having to go back to the tee and re-hit. Ive seen it happen before and it backed up the course a fair bit.

    Ive a memory of Sergio doing similar a few years ago somewhere, and hitting a good provo before shouting at people looking for his original ball to stop as he didnt want to have to go back to the tee and re-hit another as it would have been unplayable from where it was.

    As Greebo said, you should never have a choice of which ball to play. Lads would be hitting provisionals all the time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ hurleronditch


    I think thats one rule that should be looked at and changed. I think in that case you should be able to use the Provo rather than having to go back to the tee and re-hit. Ive seen it happen before and it backed up the course a fair bit.

    Ive a memory of Sergio doing similar a few years ago somewhere, and hitting a good provo before shouting at people looking for his original ball to stop as he didnt want to have to go back to the tee and re-hit another as it would have been unplayable from where it was.

    All he would do here to have your outcome is to not declare the second ball a provo. If the first ball is in such an unrecoverable position that you wouldn’t want it, just declare it unplayable off the tee and reload. As others have said, you should never have a choice between 2 balls.

    I played a casual round a few weeks back and on the 14th at Corballis from the middle of the fairway I hit a manky push/block with my 7 iron about 20 yards right into the knee high crap above the green. I dropped a provisional and stuck it to about a foot (why do you always pure the second ball? Anyways). I was wandering around trying to find the ball, and one of the lads I was playing with pointed out I was off my head to be looking for it, as if I found it making better than the 5 I effectively had in the bag would have been a miracle.

    Now obviously if it were a match, nothing to stop my opponent searching for and finding my ball and I would be forced to play it or declare it unplayable and take one of the options, but I still find it a funny quirky that within the rules I am better served not finding my original ball


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭ Seve OB


    Now obviously if it were a match, nothing to stop my opponent searching for and finding my ball and I would be forced to play it or declare it unplayable and take one of the options

    also nothing stopping you running up and tapping in the second ball while he is looking ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,109 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Seve OB wrote: »
    also nothing stopping you running up and tapping in the second ball while he is looking ;)

    was thinking that too, but if a matchplay and the ball was a foot from the hole would that be playing out of turn?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭ yawhat?


    Seve OB wrote: »
    also nothing stopping you running up and tapping in the second ball while he is looking ;)

    Not unless your opponent is inside your ball. Your opponent can make you replace the ball if you play out of turn in matchplay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,641 ✭✭✭✭ Seve OB


    slave1 wrote: »
    was thinking that too, but if a matchplay and the ball was a foot from the hole would that be playing out of turn?

    good spot.
    i was testing you :)


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