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Golf majors

  • 04-09-2020 4:01pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 77 ✭✭✭ Matmania


    Always taught usa having three majors was a bit lobsided given the global appeal of golf. I know history etc but replacing the uspga for say a major that moves to a different country each year would be good for the game. The course they are playing in france this week would be a cracking one to host a major.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    Fortunately it takes more than name to make a major, you can’t pick a comp and say that is now a major. The existing 4 have history and recognition that cannot be reproduced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,793 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    Yeah would agree with this, ideally you'd have one is the USA, one in GB, one in Europe and one in Austrailasia. Similiar to the tennis setup.

    Will never happen though. Would be a lot less american winners if this was the case. The PGA rule the golfing world and they'll take never give up their 3 majors.


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    I couldn't agree more. And the pga is clearly the least prestigious of the 4. Whereas if that started moving around the world it could become the biggest major for certain players from time to time.

    It would go from being the one that non golf fans couldn't name to being the one they remember because it was in their country once. France, Spain, South Africa, Korea, Australia, Japan - they'd all go nuts if they got to host a major.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note



    Will never happen though. Would be a lot less american winners if this was the case. The PGA rule the golfing world and they'll take never give up their 3 majors.

    I wouldn't agree with that. Plenty of American winners if the British open over the years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,793 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    blue note wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree with that. Plenty of American winners if the British open over the years.

    I'm not saying they never win one again i'm saying it would be less likely.

    Look at the open in the last 10 years, only 3 american winners whereas in the Masters and US open 6 of the last 10 winners were american and in the USPGA 7 of the last 10 winners were american.

    There's definitively an advantage for having 3 of the 4 majors in their home country.


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



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  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ NotCarrotRidge


    I don't think the masters should be a major. It's an invitational played on the same course every year. A proper major is played on a variety of courses and isn't effectively owned by a single country club of wealthy racists. All this reverential drivel about magnolia lane and the rest is just nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    I'm not saying they never win one again i'm saying it would be less likely.

    Look at the open in the last 10 years, only 3 american winners whereas in the Masters and US open 6 of the last 10 winners were american and in the USPGA 7 of the last 10 winners were american.

    There's definitively an advantage for having 3 of the 4 majors in their home country.

    I dont think its that clear cut.
    Most of the players in the field, including non-us are travelling from the US to play, most of the best players in the world live and play in the US.

    What do you think is the basis for the advantage? I dont think its travel or being at "home"...food?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    PGA tour by far the best in the world, pretty fair 3 of the 4 are in the US


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    blue note wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more. And the pga is clearly the least prestigious of the 4. Whereas if that started moving around the world it could become the biggest major for certain players from time to time.

    It would go from being the one that non golf fans couldn't name to being the one they remember because it was in their country once. France, Spain, South Africa, Korea, Australia, Japan - they'd all go nuts if they got to host a major.

    Isn’t USPGA the Championship is the PGA tour’s major, I can’t see them allowing it to be rented by other tours.

    I don’t have an issue with 3 being in the US, it is the strongest tour with the best players.


  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭ thewobbler


    Personally I’m delighted that none out of the sponsors, media, tour officials or even general public get to deem what is a major.

    The players once did this themselves once upon a time and now it’s tradition.

    They’ll be playing the Open Championship in the Belfry before it changes too.

    And thank God for that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    I don't think the masters should be a major. It's an invitational played on the same course every year. A proper major is played on a variety of courses and isn't effectively owned by a single country club of wealthy racists. All this reverential drivel about magnolia lane and the rest is just nonsense.

    God I love the Masters, I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t want it as a major. I look forward to it every year and if God gave me one round of gold, it would be Augusta.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭ Bubbaclaus


    The PGA Tour has nothing to do with any of the 4 majors, not sure why people wre bringing up some connection there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭ Hoboo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    God I love the Masters, I just don’t understand why you wouldn’t want it as a major. I look forward to it every year and if God gave me one round of gold, it would be Augusta.

    Here here. It's the only major that feels magical, closest thing to heaven on earth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    The PGA Tour has nothing to do with any of the 4 majors, not sure why people wre bringing up some connection there.

    My apologies, it is the major conducted by the PGA of America rather than the PGA Tour, it is an official event on the PGA tour.

    I still don’t see the PGA of A renting it out to another country/association though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,129 ✭✭✭ Dr. Bre


    What about the 5th major the players - will it ever become a real major though?


  • Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭ thewobbler


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    What about the 5th major the players - will it ever become a real major though?

    You have to be on a wind up surely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ThunderCat


    No problem with America getting 3 out of 4 majors. It's not like there is only American representation at them either. Playing in America is a goal for pro golfers around the world. It's comparable to boxing - all the biggest bouts are in New York or Vegas but it's quite often non-American boxers competing. And they'll all tell you that Madison Square Garden is where they want to be.

    I get that with 3 majors in the states it leaves 0 majors for anywhere else but that's life. I'd love to see the World Cup staged in Ireland but it will never happen. Tough. What I would like to see however is the USPGA to revert back to a Match Play tournament like it used to be just to give it that something different compared to the others and due to the Match Play element to it they could stage it on highly regarded historic courses that may be deemed to be too short nowadays. Less of an issue when it's Match Play. The likes of Pine Valley, Chicago, Seminole or Maidstone. Or even go to the other extreme and host it on the new kids on the block like Sand Hills, Streamsong, Ballyneal or Pacific Dunes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,896 ✭✭✭ Deeper Blue


    This argument crops up every so often and it's pointless.

    The majors are the majors and it's not gonna change, probably ever.

    I do think the closest we'll get to a 5th major is the Olympics tournament. I reckon once that's played a couple of more times everyone will want to win it. Plus the fact that it's every 4 years will make it that bit more special.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 77 ✭✭✭ Matmania


    I know its never going happen and i love history. Masters is the best major for me. US British Open there. Not mad for changing history but i still think theres a discussion for one outside usa. Never a 5th major for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,446 ✭✭✭✭ The_Kew_Tour


    I would like see Olympics become match play. I think it would give it that difference. 64 players would cover it all.

    I would be up for 5th major if it was in Southern Hemisphere and Asia, but not that pushed on it, unless they feel it would grow game there for good reason


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭ CalamariFritti


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Here here. It's the only major that feels magical, closest thing to heaven on earth.

    I feel the same. Masters is special. And so is the Open.
    US Open not quite in the same bracket but undoubtedly a justified major.
    If anything the PGA is debatable. But what could possibly take its place? Wentworth? I dont think so.
    If it came up for debate I'd fear it would be replaced by some money talks [email protected] in Dubai or similar. So maybe best leave it the way it is?


  • Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭ hurleronditch


    ThunderCat wrote: »
    No problem with America getting 3 out of 4 majors. It's not like there is only American representation at them either. Playing in America is a goal for pro golfers around the world. It's comparable to boxing - all the biggest bouts are in New York or Vegas but it's quite often non-American boxers competing. And they'll all tell you that Madison Square Garden is where they want to be.

    I get that with 3 majors in the states it leaves 0 majors for anywhere else but that's life. I'd love to see the World Cup staged in Ireland but it will never happen. Tough. What I would like to see however is the USPGA to revert back to a Match Play tournament like it used to be just to give it that something different compared to the others and due to the Match Play element to it they could stage it on highly regarded historic courses that may be deemed to be too short nowadays. Less of an issue when it's Match Play. The likes of Pine Valley, Chicago, Seminole or Maidstone. Or even go to the other extreme and host it on the new kids on the block like Sand Hills, Streamsong, Ballyneal or Pacific Dunes.

    This would be fantastic as an event to watch.

    100+ players playing 36 hole qualifying Wednesday and Thursday with top 64 going through, 36 holes per day then to whittle it down to a final on Sunday night. Especially as you say around somewhere spectacular to look at and play but with a handful of reachable par 4s and postage stamp par 3s to really mix it up va the current 7500 monsters they play


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,786 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    It’s been mentioned now enough, but you can’t just pluck a random tournament into the calendar and call it a major, that’s one point. You can throw enough money etc in for it but that doesn’t change history as people have said.

    Second point is none of the existing ones are going to be moved anyway.

    I mean - They introduced the WGCs which by-in-large have been a massive success and I think that’s as close as we will get to a 5th Major, and that is fine.

    Just another example, Tennis:

    Aus Open: 1905
    French Open: 1891
    Wimbledon: 1877
    US Open: 1881

    They’ve brought up a lot of ‘big’ events on top of that but have kept the prestige and legitimacy of a Major in tact.

    The Olympics would be the closest to being another Major for them, and it is almost treated like one, so as mentioned earlier in the thread, that’s likely going to happen in the future for Golf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,793 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    callaway92 wrote: »

    Just another example, Tennis:

    Aus Open: 1905
    French Open: 1891
    Wimbledon: 1877
    US Open: 1881

    They’ve brought up a lot of ‘big’ events on top of that but have kept the prestige and legitimacy of a Major in tact.

    Yeah that would be the ideal scenario for golf, spread the majors around the world. No surprise usa are alot less dominant in tennis. No doubt if they had 3 of the 4 majors in tennis there would be a lot more interest and they'd be a lot more dominant.


    IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: "In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom"

    Irish Proclamation



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    I can't see anything changing in relation to the PGA. And for that reason it will always be least important major.

    The Olympics should be an amateur event. No other sport is as well set up to be amateur in the Olympics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    blue note wrote: »
    I can't see anything changing in relation to the PGA. And for that reason it will always be least important major.

    The Olympics should be an amateur event. No other sport is as well set up to be amateur in the Olympics.

    I’d say it’s equally important as a major, but players would prefer to win the other three.

    Absolutely agree with you about the Olympics, the top ranked amateurs in each country should represent it. As a golf competition, it’s a non event for me, you might get a fleeting couple of seconds coverage between other events, I doubt the players care much about competing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    It's a major so it counts, but no players dream is to win the pga, it's always one of the others. They're the least memorable too. When thinking of major highlights, moments / years from the others come to mind first. In a golf forum we'll all be able to rattle off endless pga moments, but if you asked posters to list their 5 favourite major memories, I have no doubt the pga would feature least by a distance.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    callaway92 wrote: »
    It’s been mentioned now enough, but you can’t just pluck a random tournament into the calendar and call it a major, that’s one point. You can throw enough money etc in for it but that doesn’t change history as people have said.

    Second point is none of the existing ones are going to be moved anyway.

    I mean - They introduced the WGCs which by-in-large have been a massive success and I think that’s as close as we will get to a 5th Major, and that is fine.

    Just another example, Tennis:

    Aus Open: 1905
    French Open: 1891
    Wimbledon: 1877
    US Open: 1881

    They’ve brought up a lot of ‘big’ events on top of that but have kept the prestige and legitimacy of a Major in tact.

    The Olympics would be the closest to being another Major for them, and it is almost treated like one, so as mentioned earlier in the thread, that’s likely going to happen in the future for Golf.

    Just as background “they” were forced into the WGC’s to eliminate Greg Norman’s World Tour, clever guy, got pretty much exactly what he wanted. The PGA tour back in the day was very dominant with its entry rules, thankfully largely relaxed/gone now.
    Back to the Majors, the PGA is by far the weakest but there’s a lot of golf professionals in the US and this is their biggie, it’s emended into tradition now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    slave1 wrote: »
    Just as background “they” were forced into the WGC’s to eliminate Greg Norman’s World Tour, clever guy, got pretty much exactly what he wanted. The PGA tour back in the day was very dominant with its entry rules, thankfully largely relaxed/gone now.
    Back to the Majors, the PGA is by far the weakest but there’s a lot of golf professionals in the US and this is their biggie, it’s emended into tradition now.

    It's just not their biggie.

    Here's an article which looks at which is the biggest. In terms of player preference, the pga got 2%. Practically no golfer considers it their biggie.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/06/12/which-golf-major-is-the-most-prestigious/amp/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,284 ✭✭✭✭ Dav010


    blue note wrote: »
    It's just not their biggie.

    Here's an article which looks at which is the biggest. In terms of player preference, the pga got 2%. Practically no golfer considers it their biggie.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/06/12/which-golf-major-is-the-most-prestigious/amp/

    Good link, the Masters is the one I like the most, PGA the least with Open/US open pretty much level. But I still watch all 4 and as the PGA is a major, all players want to win it.


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