Issues with bathroom rennovation

0872664545

I recently hired a plumber to renovate my bathroom - top to bottom - new ware and tiles and all other finishes, he brought his team with him, a labourer and tiler.


I've been left with:
leaking toilet (valve at back), sink (s bend underneath), shower (water flooding out underneath shower frame on to floor and disappearing underneath ungrouted tiles)

Tiles are uneven and not in line, grout lines rough, some floor tiles missing grout, lots of sloppy/rough edges, tiles are caked in lumps of grout.
cistrine not flush with wall (2 inches out)

tile damage from drill holes for towel rail, shower door, and tray in shower -

vanity unit and shower door frames not plum with wall

silicone lines for sink messy, not clean

trimming around tiles in bath messy and caked in silicone

mirror is shaky/unstable on wall

door of vanity unit not closing properly

just rough edges and issues everywhere I look

I have read the info in citizens advice, and I've requested an engineers report, they are looking for 550 plus vat!

I have not paid the pluber yet, he is promising to come back an fix the leaks even though he has tried and failed to fix them already, and he told me it's normal for a shower to lead the first time you use it! Some of the things really can't be fixed like the uneven tiles and the more he tries to fix things the more problems he comes up with, all I hear is problems and excuses.

I'd ideally like to get it ripped and start again as no amount of touching up at this stage is going to give the high end finish I was promised.

Is it worth my while pursuing this - getting an engineers report - going to small claims, or should I just suck it up, try to get them to fix as much as they can and pay up.

TheW1zard

I presume you havent paid in full

0872664545

Correct, I haven't paid yet

Gumbo

0872664545 wrote: »

Correct, I haven't paid yet

Don’t until 100% fixed.

Dr_Colossus

Sounds horrendous, any pictures to further display troublesome areas. Is this a ground floor or upstairs bathroom and is there a separate shower to bath or bath/shower combined. When you say a bathroom renovation – top to bottom - was the existing bathroom ripped out back to the walls/studs and what’s the composition of them, concrete or timber joists/studs and how were they re-built before tiling. Either way no excuse for that described but if starting a fresh then all walls/floor should have been straight and true. Here’s a post I made some time back regarding tanking in a shower area that may be relevant:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114208586&postcount=18

0872664545 wrote: »

cistrine not flush with wall (2 inches out)

Holy smokes, how’s cistern supported if that far out from the wall.

0872664545 wrote: »

he is promising to come back an fix the leaks even though he has tried and failed to fix them already, and he told me it's normal for a shower to lead the first time you use it!

says it all really. No it’s not normal for a shower to leak the first time you use it and certainly grout shouldn’t be missing. Tiles/grout are the first line of defence against water penetration so I’d be fearful of lasting water damage if it goes unrectified.

Given the description of the so-called work involved I wouldn’t let him set foot in the place again but try to pursue him for the cost of materials used to date in addition to getting those removed. Engineer’s report sounds very expensive so instead I’d apportion that towards a solicitor and employing a better tiler than can supply a detailed quote for the remedial work and materials involved to rectify.

0872664545

The advice I got from engineer is that you have to give him a chance to rectify before I take it further.

He is coming tomorrow, I plan to just give him a letter saying I'm not happy with the work and a full snag list - even though most of the stuff is much bigger than snags.

I have an engineer booked then to come and look at it, and he said if he (the engineer) concurs with my assessment that he will then back me up, and I simple don't pay, if I'm sued then I have the engineers backup.

I suppose I also can go to small claims or further at that point for further damages if needed. But to be honest, I don't want to torture the man, I just want to turn back time and work with a reputable company to get it ripped and redone.

Dr_Colossus

0872664545 wrote: »

The advice I got from engineer is that you have to give him a chance to rectify before I take it further.

Agreed but hasn't he tried that already by fixing the leaks and advising that such leads were expected.

0872664545 wrote: »

I have an engineer booked then to come and look at it, and he said if he (the engineer) concurs with my assessment that he will then back me up, and I simple don't pay, if I'm sued then I have the engineers backup.

I suppose I also can go to small claims or further at that point for further damages if needed. But to be honest, I don't want to torture the man, I just want to turn back time and work with a reputable company to get it ripped and redone.

Sounds like a good plan, good luck with the assessment. Not sure how the engineer will be able to assess the wall composition and what type of plasterboard, cement board, tile back board, tanking etc is used but if he removes something like the shower unit etc he should be able to get a view behind. He should be well cabable of assessing it anyway given those fees.

0872664545

they are solid walls in 1960s bungalow
he tiled over existing wall tiles - he just put some turquoise colour liquid/paste over it
floor tiles were ripped and replaced
I sent some pics

and thanks for your reponse - I would be interested to know what you think of the pics
I am totally unexperienced in the trades, but have a good eye, I would really like a second opinion of whether my vision of this as a balls up of a job is skewed or corect

Dr_Colossus

087... above doesn't have enough posts to be eligible to post photos so sent me an IM with them. Posting here for all:

1.silicone behind sink


2. Vanity unit doors


3. off line tiles


4. large section of frame is not plum with wall, so around 40 cm length of silicone around 4mm + wide running down the side of the shower


5. drill hole damage from towel rail


6. some piping had to be boxed in, this is the finish result, he also made the boxing the wrong length, so now the main door bangs of the vanity unit


7. A protruding tile by window


8. Drill hole damage from shower frame


9. more offline tiles

Dr_Colossus

More pics, no comments given for these but self explanatory:

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17

Blondini

Some of the worst tile work I've ever seen.

Best of luck with everything.

antix80

If you didn't pay him yet, I'd advise you not to. I wouldn't mind too much if some tiles were a bit off but some of that work is just shoddy.

He'll probably argue the tiler is nothing to do with him. That would be the smart thing for him to do. So he'd fix the leaks, you say the plumbing is fine - then he'll hit you with a massive bill for plumbing excluding the tiling.

I'd a similar experience with a kitchen fitter/fake carpenter from faughart, a trusted friend's brother. His "team" were basically northern lads he rounded up to do botch jobs and charge me a fortune. I realised straight away and kicked him out. I was probably down e1500 but if i went though with all the work he'd have ripped me of to the tune of tens of thousands.

The engineer sounds like you threw good money after bad. I'd be threatening this plumber with legal action to get him to back off, then pay him the minimum you can to get rid of him, then hire a decent tradesmen to fix everything up. You'll be down money but hey, you learned a valuable lesson.

Dr_Colossus

Pics are not as bad as I was imagining but that said they may not be giving the work justice in terms of how poor it is in person and I certainly wouldn't be happy paying good money for that finish. Was the tiler actually experienced or any idea as to his background?

1: Don't actually know how you'd get that finish with silicone. Guessing no tooling at all or even the customary and incorrect soapy finger finish.

2: Since a pre-fabricated unit surely the hinges can be adjusted to have the doors square and actually close.

4: Tiling over tiles is the lazy way out and requires great confidence in what's there previously. A better silicone finish wouldn't make the bowed wall as obvious.

5: Personally I don't like drilling in grout lines since easier to chip but he had loads of room for error with the towel rad bracket covering the hole.

6: Unbelievable and probably the worst pic. No excuse for that.

7: Hard to see the problem, guessing it's tile lipage.

8: Shocking especially with the shower door frame covering most of it. Did he use hammer action on the drill perhaps.

9: Bad but grouting probably makes it look worse

10: Terrible, can't leave a shower tray like that and looks like there's a gap under the tray. Is the structure itself solid or what's it's built on.

11: Sliver cuts of tile against shower tray, no pre-planning. Was depth of tile is left at the ceiling.

12: Unbelievable and can't be left like that. Is there any support behind the cistern at all as otherwise that will break and cause flooding.

13-16: Grouting is horrendous, was it washed down properly at all

17: At least there's an isolation valve but why are the pattern tiles stained and silicone already looking mouldy. Looks like a job that's year's old.

Vestiapx

That's red staining looks like the work was a while ago. When was this done ?

antix80

How much were you quoted?

0872664545

The red staining is only dust from drilling holes for shelves etc, I haven't had the heart to clean it again, as I cleaned it already, it was worse at this point and I got the tiler back and he regrouted, so it was way way worse, this is him after trying to clean it up after I complained. His excuse was he didn't realize I wanted flush grout lines!

The tiles were finished a week ago, the plumber left Tuesday - so this is new

Depth of tile at ceiling is just less than half a tile deep, so bottom and top are tile fractions

There is zero support behind cistrine

The tray seems solid, I think he layed it on cement, actually I don't know what he layed it on, but I do know it's chipped from throwing tools roughly on it probably

the tiling over wall tiles is another issue, he told me while quoting they were coming down and they would reskim if needed

this is the quote, but I didn't get the bill yet, I imagine, there are a few extras

---

The following works will take place
Remove existing sanitary ware
Chase floor to allow for waste pipe for a new low level - size needs to be clarified - I will call again in the next few days to confirm size
New toilet cistern to be installed to allow for wall hung toilet bowl
Prepare for tiler
Room to be tiled
Install new sanitary ware
Clean and handover

We have agreed labour costs of 1800.00

---

I have no idea if this is cheap or otherwise, I think because of their lack of skill, they have actually put a lot of hours into it.
What they actually did was

plumber plus labourer for around 4 ish days
tiler for around 3 ish days

I think it would be good value if they had done a good job, but considering what I've been left with the saying, you get what you pay for has maybe never been so apt

antix80

Small jobs cost more but seriously ... A day each (labourer, plumber, tiler) should have done it. A good tiler is expensive but you didn't get a good tiler.
A decent decorator or tiler could possibly fix up the crap finishes without tearing everything out but you'd be best having a competent plumber have a look at the plumbing.

I wouldn't waste money on an engineer.

What i did when I was in the process of being ripped off was got another builder round, - unlike your situation , he was taking over the job early on and not just fixing up bad work although i had to run with some of the decisions of the original guy... Anyway he understood the situation... Then i had a chat with the original guy. Haggled him down a few hundred, and paid him.

Life's too short.

0872664545

Looking at quote again, I don't know where he was going with his wall hung toilet, he couldn't even get any toilet attached to wall in the end. Originally I did get a toilet suitable for wall hung, and he took it back and go an open plumbed one, that was 4 inches out from wall, so I went and go another one that he recommended and said would fit over boxed in exit pipe and I still have a 2 inch gap behind cistrine, so ya 3 toilets down and still going (excuse pun )

antix80

I read that bit about wall hung and figured that's why you needed the engineer!

Aw it's too bad the tiling isn't perfect. I had a great tiler do the bathroom in my last house but when renovating my current gaff i left the bathroom because the cost of tiling was a lot. Some white tiles were chipped slightly when the new doorframe and windows were fitted but I'll tell you.. A little lightweight filler and caulk went a long way.

NIMAN

Sorry you were left with such a poor job.

Hard to believe that this job was carried out by qualified plumbers, tilers, tradesmen.

I hope you get a resolution to it all.

adam88

What’s the current status quo with regards to payment. Is it 50 up front and 50 at completion or what’s the standard nowadays