Moving Out Tenant Fees

lambie1234

Hi Everyone!

I went to view a room and decided i'd take it, i've now received conditions of my tenancy and it states (with no additional context)

"The cost per tenant for moving out is €400 plus VAT at 23% totalling €492."

This has really put me off moving in, the agency haven't responded to my questions asking what the payment is for.

There's also the rent and the deposit to be exchanged with the other tenant moving out.

How does this sound to you?

meijin

lambie1234 wrote: »

There's also the rent and the deposit to be exchanged with the other tenant moving out.

this is strange; why should you deal with the previous tenant at all?

you should pay to the landlord; what they do with the money (e.g. return deposit to the previous tenant), is their business


moving out fee? very unusual


and it's for a room? through an agency?

meijin

meijin wrote: »

this is strange; why should you deal with the previous tenant at all?

you should pay to the landlord; what they do with the money (e.g. return deposit to the previous tenant), is their business
?

Fairly standard in house shares, was always how it was done in places I lived. Tenant moving out got deposit of new tenant and so on. LLs I had never got involved in getting tenants or anything, if someone was moving out the existing tenants would advertise the room and pick the new tenant. In some instance then just give the new tenant the LLs bank details for paying rent or else it was collected in cash in another place.

I met all my LLs at least once but I lived in houses where people came and went without ever having even a text with the LL never mind a call or meet them.

wench

Andre Hundreds Rival wrote: »

Fairly standard in house shares, was always how it was done in places I lived. Tenant moving out got deposit of new tenant and so on. LLs I had never got involved in getting tenants or anything, if someone was moving out the existing tenants would advertise the room and pick the new tenant. In some instance then just give the new tenant the LLs bank details for paying rent or else it was collected in cash in another place.

I met all my LLs at least once but I lived in houses where people came and went without ever having even a text with the LL never mind a call or meet them.

Yes, but in those situations there wasn't an agent sticking their oar in and asking for €400 for the privilege.

lambie1234

meijin wrote: »

this is strange; why should you deal with the previous tenant at all?

you should pay to the landlord; what they do with the money (e.g. return deposit to the previous tenant), is their business


moving out fee? very unusual


and it's for a room? through an agency?

Thank you! Yes for a room through an agency.

The request is:
Exchange deposit with the person moving out
Pay €492 if I ever move out myself

Mrs OBumble

what would they do if you moved out without paying the fee???

Vic_08

My guess is the agent will be pocketing this, possibly without the landlord even knowing they are charging the tenants a moving fee.

No point being the middleman if you can't make off both sides.

While the deposit passing thing is common with house shares it does effectively mean that the last tenants when the lease gets terminated for whatever reason are left responsible for the condition the property is in after the whole lease. They may lose some/all of the deposit because of damage done by previous tenants who have by default been passed back their share of the deposit.

1874

A moving out fee sounds very questionable, I dont want to say illegal, because I dont know for sure, but it should be, I'd be surprised if this wasn't challengeable, but I'd check first.

The whole idea of paying a tenant moving out the deposit, is lazy and leaves things open to problems, mainly for the person paying it but also potentially a landlord.
It should not be the norm, even though its probably commonplace. Seems easy for an agent to rip someone off and not have that exchange occur, pocket that along with the moving out fee.
As a former landlord, Id say these things probably are the norm, possibly not illegal, definitely questionable and I should say, I think agents for landlords are not acting in the best interests of the landlord and not likely a tenant/occupant, just themselves.

edit, I see mention was made that the former tenant is handed the deposit (why??) but manily, who is the rent paid to??
the agent surely collects/provides a receipt for that?

JustAThought

This might be to cover the agency costs - I see there is VAT included. Isn’t goods vat 23% and services 13^? It wouod be interrsting to see why the VAT classification is for goods when you will purchasing nothing - unless their sector has an odd classification like hairdressing does.

Without the VAT question my guess would have been for inspection of the property prior to you miving out, standard cleaning fee of the room for the next twnnt and whatever office administration is needed to facilitate it.

Revenue could give gou oversight into vat classifications for letting agents and cleaning services...

davindub

JustAThought wrote: »

This might be to cover the agency costs - I see there is VAT included. Isn’t goods vat 23% and services 13^? It wouod be interrsting to see why the VAT classification is for goods when you will purchasing nothing - unless their sector has an odd classification like hairdressing does.

Without the VAT question my guess would have been for inspection of the property prior to you miving out, standard cleaning fee of the room for the next twnnt and whatever office administration is needed to facilitate it.

Revenue could give gou oversight into vat classifications for letting agents and cleaning services...

23% is the correct rate.

OP confirm that it is a contract break fee.

It is about twice the normal rate charged, but I assume it is for a bedsit type property. If so, the fee is there for a reason, and that reason is not good. Offhand I would say there is no insulation and the unit is freezing during winter.

lambie1234

davindub wrote: »

23% is the correct rate.

OP confirm that it is a contract break fee.

It is about twice the normal rate charged, but I assume it is for a bedsit type property. If so, the fee is there for a reason, and that reason is not good. Offhand I would say there is no insulation and the unit is freezing during winter.

It's for a room in a 3 bed house in a new development in Castleknock.

Definitely thought it sounded weird myself, there's no context to what the moving out fee covers and no one will reply to me with more details.

Think I will keep looking!!

Thanks all

1874

davindub wrote: »

23% is the correct rate.

OP confirm that it is a contract break fee.

It is about twice the normal rate charged, but I assume it is for a bedsit type property. If so, the fee is there for a reason, and that reason is not good. Offhand I would say there is no insulation and the unit is freezing during winter.

well, the OP said it was a fee for the tenant moving out, unless I missed where they said elsewhere what you wrote?
I'd really be considering a fee to leave is not reasonable, thats under normal circumstances, but wording it as acontract break fee, would tell me thats what the deposit is also for (yes I know, a deposit wouldnt cover all the potential costs that a landlord might experience, its merely an incentive to not do damage/default etc).
Also, I think if its high turnover, ie rooms are let on a licence basis, then the fee per occupant is too high and shouldnt be relative to the overall expected rental (which is normally what a landlord might pay an agent just to locate tenants, would occur relatively infrequently and is a a deductable cost to the landlord).
Although I can within reason see why a person taking up occupancy should pay some kind of fee, 400 plus vat is steep and it appears the agent is barely doing anything, at the least they should be collecting the deposit, which they are absolved of any knowledge of.
Id be thinking they are charging the landlord (who doesnt have the time/isnt nearby to manage the property) and doubling up by charging the occupant too.
OP could pay deposit to outgoing tenant, but Id get an email off the agent as to what that amount is exactly, this would confirm in a record that the agent knows and agrees with that, and the amount.
Id still get a receipt/make one from the outgoing tenant, although this seems to me to be intentionally amateurish to remove/absolve the agent of responsibility, ie if a new tenant isn't available when/if the OP decided to leave or if the agent intentionally hindered their crossing paths, they might try pocket the deposit.
Potentially sharpish practice and the agent would be wide open to getting it back, but just inconvenience for the tenant/licencee.
Not sure if letting agents (usually connected with Auctioneer business) are PRSA approved and that they could be reported that way if they tried anything on.
(all comments as a former landlord), I could easily say I had as much problems caused by agents as by some tenants in the past.

I believe Ive already stated it in Boards, the current regulations/laws make for a situation that encourages the worst sorts, ie worst tenants and worst landlords, I'd add to that, the worst agents.
I know there are good tenants/licencees/landlords and Im sure agents, but the worst of each category get more from the laws than the better people.

davindub

1874 wrote: »

well, the OP said it was a fee for the tenant moving out, unless I missed where they said elsewhere what you wrote?
I'd really be considering a fee to leave is not reasonable, thats under normal circumstances, but wording it as acontract break fee, would tell me thats what the deposit is also for (yes I know, a deposit wouldnt cover all the potential costs that a landlord might experience, its merely an incentive to not do damage/default etc).
Also, I think if its high turnover, ie rooms are let on a licence basis, then the fee per occupant is too high and shouldnt be relative to the overall expected rental (which is normally what a landlord might pay an agent just to locate tenants, would occur relatively infrequently and is a a deductable cost to the landlord).
Although I can within reason see why a person taking up occupancy should pay some kind of fee, 400 plus vat is steep and it appears the agent is barely doing anything, at the least they should be collecting the deposit, which they are absolved of any knowledge of.
Id be thinking they are charging the landlord (who doesnt have the time/isnt nearby to manage the property) and doubling up by charging the occupant too.
OP could pay deposit to outgoing tenant, but Id get an email off the agent as to what that amount is exactly, this would confirm in a record that the agent knows and agrees with that, and the amount.
Id still get a receipt/make one from the outgoing tenant, although this seems to me to be intentionally amateurish to remove/absolve the agent of responsibility, ie if a new tenant isn't available when/if the OP decided to leave or if the agent intentionally hindered their crossing paths, they might try pocket the deposit.
Potentially sharpish practice and the agent would be wide open to getting it back, but just inconvenience for the tenant/licencee.
Not sure if letting agents (usually connected with Auctioneer business) are PRSA approved and that they could be reported that way if they tried anything on.
(all comments as a former landlord), I could easily say I had as much problems caused by agents as by some tenants in the past.

I believe Ive already stated it in Boards, the current regulations/laws make for a situation that encourages the worst sorts, ie worst tenants and worst landlords, I'd add to that, the worst agents.
I know there are good tenants/licencees/landlords and Im sure agents, but the worst of each category get more from the laws than the better people.

The same thing really, it would be a silly EA who expects someone to pay a move out fee when their contract has expired. I think given the contracts I've examined for bedsits, it's a break fee, but god knows what gets put into contracts, and I don't see why they are letting per room in a 3 bed house. I agree the agents are pocketing this fee.

But easily reversed at the RTB, penalty clauses are not actually enforceable, damages are only claimable in actual loss suffered.

bigpink

Link to the as or agency?

Yyhhuuu

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

what would they do if you moved out without paying the fee???

I personally would not pay this if I was renting.

lambie1234

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

I personally would not pay this if I was renting.

I just don't want to take the risk incase it could count as debt as I'll be applying for a mortgage within the next 6 months

lambie1234

lambie1234 wrote: »

I just don't want to take the risk incase it could count as debt as I'll be applying for a mortgage within the next 6 months

It won’t count as debt anyway so don’t worry about that.