Want to know the address of the blonde in the nice car - ask your car dealer

peasant

The Irish Examiner is on form these days ...here's the next scandal:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40037678.html

It has now emerged that anyone in possession of a ‘garage code’, a password delivered to garages and dealerships for the use of the online system (known as MotorTrans), can access the details of any vehicle with a registration plate.

colm_mcm

Shouldn’t be allowing them transfer cars without the VRC code in the first place.

Dempo1

Pretty astonishing story, in fact outrageous if confirmed to be true, it seems a code is issued to dealerships and any Tom dick or delboy working at one can use the code to access info. As an aside, seems even more astonishing that tge Garda mobility app can't access info on either learner permits or Novice drivers from the NVDF, maybe now they can consult dealerships.

Atlantic Dawn

Interesting with the recent gangland connections to some dealers that they now have access to the address of the registered owner of any car.

ba_barabus

Since when have they been able to access the data this way?

Pete67

Probably explains why a member of the Gardai whom I know well tells me that guards are advised to register their cars at their work address.

Dempo1

ba_barabus wrote: »

Since when have they been able to access the data this way?

God bless the department of transport, they gave access years ago, apparently to make life easier for them regarding registering ownership paperwork

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40037678.html

Dempo1

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Interesting with the recent gangland connections to some dealers that they now have access to the address of the registered owner of any car.

Excellent point and makes it all the more alarming

SnowyMay

Quite concerning, but could we take a moment to appreciate the phrase:

“burning clown car of ineptitude“

Charles Babbage

Irish Examiner on the ball in recent days.

This is an example of a system that wasn't tested properly.

Dempo1

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Irish Examiner on the ball in recent days.

This is an example of a system that wasn't tested properly.

You'd have to wonder how it's taken years for this to surface, just seems extraordinary a garage code issued to dealerships and by all accounts Zero controls in place, looking forward to the Governments response to this, I shudder to think if with all these gangland killings and general car crime, has or will any be linked to information leaked because of this

theguzman

This is has been going on for a few years now. I encountered it myself whilst trying to sort out the absolute sh1tshow that is Motortrans and ROS and their archaic online systems of design. At one stage a dealer (anyone with a TAN no.) had to have two different versions of Java running. Anyone who has to deal with ROS really would need to be slightly medicated as it is the biggest piece of sh1t imaginable, think back to the days of Internet Explorer 6 garbage. It is as if Revenue sent out a tender for someone to design the absolute biggest steaming pile of manure online imaginable.

theguzman

Dempo1 wrote: »

You'd have to wonder how it's taken years for this to surface, just seems extraordinary a garage code issued to dealerships and by all accounts Zero controls in place, looking forward to the Governments response to this, I shudder to think if with all these gangland killings and general car crime, has or will any be linked to information leaked because of this

All those high end car thefts happen with assistance of this, want to steal something in demand, then you you can find whatever leafy suburb that Beamer is located.

colm_mcm

There’s also the new car situation where you can view the owners details on motortax.ie until they tax it. Just need the last 6 digits of chassis number.

Atlantic Dawn

colm_mcm wrote: »

There’s also the new car situation where you can view the owners details on motortax.ie until they tax it. Just need the last 6 digits of chassis number.

Which are simple to come by as most cars have them on the bottom right of the windscreen.

TrailerBob

So... To the whingers on the Garda Traffic thread going on about a blurred photo being a GDPR breach .... This is what a GDPR breach looks like.

Dempo1

TrailerBob wrote: »

So... To the whingers on the Garda Traffic thread going on about a blurred photo being a GDPR breach .... This is what a GDPR breach looks like.

Always wondered about the malevolent nature of Gardai traffic twitter account, fair enough traffic news, accidents, diversions etc but is it really appropriate to have an official twitter account gleefully posting about "alledged offences", just always struck me as troubling, disturbing and odd albeit thankfully personal details being devulged not allowed. It was very telling during lock downs, the majority of tweets nothing to do with compliance of restrictions and more to do with various "Alledged" Traffic offences. No doubt I'll be vilified for having such views.

TrailerBob

They only have to call offences alleged if they are to appear in court. I think it's good to show that offences are being caught, maybe they could tone down the sarcasm a bit alright.. My point being a picture of a car with the reg blurred out is not a GDPR breach. This motor trade access to owners details is very much a breach.

Dempo1

TrailerBob wrote: »

They only have to call offences alleged if they are to appear in court. I think it's good to show that offences are being caught, maybe they could tone down the sarcasm a bit alright.. My point being a picture of a car with the reg blurred out is not a GDPR breach. This motor trade access to owners details is very much a breach.

Yes, fair points all round and in particular the sarcastic approach

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

the majority of tweets nothing to do with compliance of restrictions and more to do with various "Alledged" Traffic offences. No doubt I'll be vilified for having such views.

The hint is in the name. It's the traffic account so it tweets about traffic.

Ags I don't think have an an official account or if they do, it's not very popular

Dempo1

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The hint is in the name. It's the traffic account so it tweets about traffic.

Ags I don't think have an an official account or if they do, it's not very popular

O it's official alright, yes "Traffic Account", not "Breaches of the Road Traffic act Account"

timsey tiger

Dempo1 wrote: »

O it's official alright, yes "Traffic Account", not "Breaches of the Road Traffic act Account"

VW polo driving 5kmph below speed limit and stopping at red light, wouldn't get much traction on twitter, it's the norm not news.

Dempo1

timsey tiger wrote: »

VW polo driving 5kmph below speed limit and stopping at red light, wouldn't get much traction on twitter, it's the norm not news.

That's probably not the best example, it's not about traction or news, my point being it really is not appropriate to be tweeting sarcastic enjoyment of "Alledged offences" not withstanding the core principle of Innocent until proven guilty, put another way, say a case goes to court, the defendant refutes the alledged offence, solicitor then presents a case of bias based on the arresting garda tweeting sarcastically defendants car being towed etc, might be a stretch but I've seen cases thrown out for less as I'm sure everyone has, just a humble opinion mind you.

timsey tiger

Dempo1 wrote: »

That's probably not the best example, it's not about traction or news, my point being it really is not appropriate to be tweeting sarcastic enjoyment of "Alledged offences" not withstanding the core principle of Innocent until proven guilty, put another way, say a case goes to court, the defendant refutes the alledged offence, solicitor then presents a case of bias based on the arresting garda tweeting sarcastically defendants car being towed etc, might be a stretch but I've seen cases thrown out for less as I'm sure everyone has, just a humble opinion mind you.

It is not the guards job to assume innocence, infact quiet the opposite. They shouldn't be bringing cases before the court unless they are confident that the offence was committed. They are not the party responsible for convicting.

Dempo1

timsey tiger wrote: »

It is not the guards job to assume innocence, infact quiet the opposite. They shouldn't be bringing cases before the court unless they are confident that the offence was committed. They are not the party responsible for convicting.

I agree but equally not their job to PRE assume guilt, they are in fact partly responsible for convicting, how else does the matter reach court, all I'm suggesting is putting sarcastic tweets up run the risk of a tainted prosecution. I'll give you one example, very recently a very distinct open top Bentley / Rolls with a horrid blue color was stopped for suspected speeding, louth Road policing I believe. Now at a guess, you'd have to assume, very, very rare car, in fact on follow up tweets, some recognised the car. Just an example of my concern, there was also seperatly a very distinctive yellow motorbike which was also very recognisable, again I'm not critising the Gardai, just it's use of the Twitter Platform for none essential "traffic" updates as opposed to what I perceive as a molevant sarcasim. Just an opinion of course

timsey tiger

I'd imagine that queries to the database are logged and that it would be a simple matter to check the log to find out if stolen cars were searched for.

CrabRevolution

Dempo1 wrote: »

I agree but equally not their job to PRE assume guilt, they are in fact partly responsible for convicting, how else does the matter reach court, all I'm suggesting is putting sarcastic tweets up run the risk of a tainted prosecution. I'll give you one example, very recently a very distinct open top Bentley / Rolls with a horrid blue color was stopped for suspected speeding, louth Road policing I believe. Now at a guess, you'd have to assume, very, very rare car, in fact on follow up tweets, some recognised the car. Just an example of my concern, there was also seperatly a very distinctive yellow motorbike which was also very recognisable, again I'm not critising the Gardai, just it's use of the Twitter Platform for none essential "traffic" updates as opposed to what I perceive as a molevant sarcasim. Just an opinion of course

You say it runs the risk of a tainted prosecution but apart from your conjecture you don't really provide any evidence of it.
Meanwhile they've posted 30'000 tweets using the same format and same writing style for almost 10 years now. It's pretty safe to say using that enormous time span and sample size that if there were any issues of Data Protection or presumption of innocence it would have come out long long ago.

Voodoomelon

Incredible. Categorically, this has been used for the purposes of crime, 100%.

kirving

timsey tiger wrote: »

I'd imagine that queries to the database are logged and that it would be a simple matter to check the log to find out if stolen cars were searched for.

Is imagine that this situation is impossible in the first place, but here we are. What a complete joke of a system.

I personally know of two people who were targeted at home due to their work. One was a signed Christmas card from a known criminal, the other was a petrol bomb.

CrankyHaus

timsey tiger wrote: »

I'd imagine that queries to the database are logged and that it would be a simple matter to check the log to find out if stolen cars were searched for.

Given the response from the Department of Transport it seems it has no clue itself about how its own system functions. Certainly from this response I'd have zero faith in its ability, or even its inclination, to log or check anything.



"Contacted for comment, the Department of Transport initially said the address of the owner is not displayed on MotorTrans. A spokesman then said the address is only displayed once a transaction has been completed.


It was pointed out to the department this is not the case and a vehicle registration certificate is not required, whereupon a subsequent request for further comment was not answered at time of going to press."

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

O it's official alright, yes "Traffic Account", not "Breaches of the Road Traffic act Account"

I think you misunderstood. I know it's an official ags account. I meant I don't think ags have a general account for general policing.

I don't really get the gripe part. It's the traffic account, it tweets about the offences that the traffic Corp deal with

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

I agree but equally not their job to PRE assume guilt, they are in fact partly responsible for convicting, how else does the matter reach court, all I'm suggesting is putting sarcastic tweets up run the risk of a tainted prosecution. I'll give you one example, very recently a very distinct open top Bentley / Rolls with a horrid blue color was stopped for suspected speeding, louth Road policing I believe. Now at a guess, you'd have to assume, very, very rare car, in fact on follow up tweets, some recognised the car. Just an example of my concern, there was also seperatly a very distinctive yellow motorbike which was also very recognisable, again I'm not critising the Gardai, just it's use of the Twitter Platform for none essential "traffic" updates as opposed to what I perceive as a molevant sarcasim. Just an opinion of course

They are totally responsible for traffic prosecution's and have already decided guilt or they wouldn't be prosecuting anyone.

There's no Trial by jury in the traffic court and the evidence in Twitter isn't anything that won't be produced in the trial or classed as personal data.

People thinking they recognised a car doesn't mean they are correct

CrankyHaus

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Given the response from the Department of Transport it seems it has no clue itself about how its own system functions. Certainly from this response I'd have zero faith in its ability, or even its inclination, to log or check anything.



"Contacted for comment, the Department of Transport initially said the address of the owner is not displayed on MotorTrans. A spokesman then said the address is only displayed once a transaction has been completed.


It was pointed out to the department this is not the case and a vehicle registration certificate is not required, whereupon a subsequent request for further comment was not answered at time of going to press."

Presumable the system is supposed to be the way they claim but i.t ****ed up. It could have been an update that screwed things, who knows.

I would hope it's not still live

R.O.R

It's been like that for a good few years. A colleague who looked after the transfer of ownership where I used to work, discovered it by mistake.

You couldn't just stick a reg in and it would show the details, you had to make a mistake somewhere in the process of transferring a vehicle and it would then show you who the vehicle is currently registered to.

I think it was a bit of a stupid error you had to make on the system, so not a lot of people would have found it.

1874

Any chance they'll ever get around to fixing this? this is serious, no surprises really but still appalled when I heard this. So, Ireland, pay through the nose for everything and the service level does not match. Will they even bother to fix this or just wait for it to blow over?

You would think the information available about an owner and how and what is displayed publicly is known (and possibly even controlled) by the owner and can be kept out of the public domain.

On the one hand, I've went looking legitimately for information, I've had GDPR waved around where I felt the answer was equivalent to "computer says no" (the over use of GDPR as a cop out has been highlighted somewhere before, just cant locate a link) but in something legitimate and has the potential to be very serious, they cant even get that right.

3d4life

Irish Examiner reports that an attempt has been made to patch this up

vintagevrs

Did you ever get the address of the blonde? What was he driving?

These 70 Leafs would not have been stolen opportunistically.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-smash-gang-who-stole-more-than-70-electric-cars-worth-15m-39571209.html

Someone must have known the registered address of these cars in advance. They wouldn't have followed them all home.

ba_barabus

Deleted User wrote: »

These 70 Leafs would not have been stolen opportunistically.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/gardai-smash-gang-who-stole-more-than-70-electric-cars-worth-15m-39571209.html

Someone must have known the registered address of these cars in advance. They wouldn't have followed them all home.

I've seen posts on here from that Tesla owner.