Cobalt drenching lambs

Farmer_3650

Just wondering how often ye drench lambs for cobalt? I'm doing mine every 2 months as it is what the product recommends but I've been talking to 2 farmers within the last few months and both said they should be done every 2 weeks.
The reason I am wondering is because lambs don't seem to be thriving as well as usual the last few weeks. I am using this product. https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-b12-with-selenium

wrangler

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Just wondering how often ye drench lambs for cobalt? I'm doing mine every 2 months as it is what the product recommends but I've been talking to 2 farmers within the last few months and both said they should be done every 2 weeks.
The reason I am wondering is because lambs don't seem to be thriving as well as usual the last few weeks. I am using this product. https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-b12-with-selenium

Cobalt doesn't last long in lambs, if you make up your own cobalt it only costs pence per lamb and lasts a fortnight, if you dose them with Cobalt twice in a month you'll know by the thrive whether you need to be dosing, ie if it makes no difference to the thrive then cobalt isn't your problem.
Cobalt sulphate (21pc cobalt) is the most common cobalt salt used for providing oral cobalt supplements. If you are mixing your own cobalt sulphate with water, then the rate will be 7.5g per litre of water or 1kg per 135 litres (30 gallons). At this concentration 10ml of mixed solution will contain 15.5mg of cobalt or just enough for a 35kg lamb for two weeks.
If you look at the product you're using it only has 10mg of Cobalt per litre of dose , but it has B12 though and that's a help too.
Anyway just dose them with the cheap cobalt and see if that's the problem. 7.5gs of Cobalt sulphate is only about two teaspoons
You probably should do a worm count too, your worm dose mightn't have worked

Farmer_3650

wrangler wrote: »

Cobalt doesn't last long in lambs, if you make up your own cobalt it only costs pence per lamb and lasts a fortnight, if you dose them with Cobalt twice in a month you'll know by the thrive whether you need to be dosing, ie if it makes no difference to the thrive then cobalt isn't your problem.
Cobalt sulphate (21pc cobalt) is the most common cobalt salt used for providing oral cobalt supplements. If you are mixing your own cobalt sulphate with water, then the rate will be 7.5g per litre of water or 1kg per 135 litres (30 gallons). At this concentration 10ml of mixed solution will contain 15.5mg of cobalt or just enough for a 35kg lamb for two weeks.
If you look at the product you're using it only has 10mg of Cobalt per litre of dose , but it has B12 though and that's a help too.
Anyway just dose them with the cheap cobalt and see if that's the problem. 7.5gs of Cobalt sulphate is only about two teaspoons
You probably should do a worm count too, your worm dose mightn't have worked

Thanks for the informative answer, looks like the product I'm using is a waste of time so. Do you mix your own cobalt and if so what product are you using? Seen the one in the link below after a quick search online, but doesn't state how concentrated it is.
https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-sulphate

wrangler

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Thanks for the informative answer, looks like the product I'm using is a waste of time so. Do you mix your own cobalt and if so what product are you using? Seen the one in the link below after a quick search online, but doesn't state how concentrated it is.
https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-sulphate

Yea, we even mix it with worm doses, you have the mixing rate there and dose rate. 30mls for a ewe so maybe 15ml for a 30kg lamb.
The stuff here isn't in the original container so I'm not sure what brand it is. the stuff here can be gritty and it takes a long time to dissolve so we mixit the day before and we also put it through a tea strainer because even one little bit of grit will mess with the dosing gun. It's important to keep it shook while dosing too
It'd be nice to know what teh percentage of cobalt was in that stuff, lambs need 1mg of cobalt per head per day, they'll be getting some in their diet so if the dose was giving them between .5 and 1mg/hd/day, that's what you want

razor8

wrangler wrote: »

Yea, we even mix it with worm doses, you have the mixing rate there and dose rate. 30mls for a ewe so maybe 15ml for a 30kg lamb.
The stuff here isn't in the original container so I'm not sure what brand it is. the stuff here can be gritty and it takes a long time to dissolve so we mixit the day before and we also put it through a tea strainer because even one little bit of grit will mess with the dosing gun. It's important to keep it shook while dosing too
It'd be nice to know what teh percentage of cobalt was in that stuff, lambs need 1mg of cobalt per head per day, they'll be getting some in their diet so if the dose was giving them between .5 and 1mg/hd/day, that's what you want

Can you double the powder and dose at half rate to give 15ml?

Has anyone ever overdosed with cobalt or they just excrete the excess?

J.O. Farmer

razor8 wrote: »

Can you double the powder and dose at half rate to give 15ml?

Has anyone ever overdosed with cobalt or they just excrete the excess?

If it's hard to dissolve you might struggle to dissolve it at double. If it works though half rate will be fine.

ganmo

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

If it's hard to dissolve you might struggle to dissolve it at double. If it works though half rate will be fine.

Warm water and itll dissolve no bother.

No I've never heard of anyone poisoning lambs with cobalt

wrangler

razor8 wrote: »

Can you double the powder and dose at half rate to give 15ml?

Has anyone ever overdosed with cobalt or they just excrete the excess?

I didn't want to complicate it, but we'd measure out the required amount of powder for the amount of lambs and make it up at 5mls water per lamb.
Even using warm water we still get bits of grit in it.
I don't think it does any harm to overdose

Green farmer

Was going to mix my own stuff before, until I read cobalt dust is meant to be carcinogenic, so decided wasnt worth messing with. I just buy the cheapest premixed stuff I can, think €20 for a 5 litres.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

Was going to mix my own stuff before, until I read cobalt dust is meant to be carcinogenic, so decided wasnt worth messing with. I just buy the cheapest premixed stuff I can, think €20 for a 5 litres.

I think you might be a bit obsessive to be worried about the little bit you'd be using,
Ciaran Lynch, teagasc, advised extra cobalt at the moment because of the weather

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

I think you might be a bit obsessive to be worried about the little bit you'd be using,

Your probably right, but for the sake of what it costs me extra each year, dont think its worth taking any chances. I worm dosed the lambs with endospec recently (cheap white dose), that has the cobalt added in as well, which is an added extra at no cost

memorystick

I buy stores In October and keep for 5 months. They get cobalt, wormer and vaccines on arrival and that’s it. Should I give cobalt more frequently? They usually put on 1 kg per week for the 20 weeks or so.

Box09

What are you feeding them on to get 1 kg a week in the height of winter? The cobalt if in liquid form needs to be every 2 weeks.

wrangler

memorystick wrote: »

I buy stores In October and keep for 5 months. They get cobalt, wormer and vaccines on arrival and that’s it. Should I give cobalt more frequently? They usually put on 1 kg per week for the 20 weeks or so.

Not all land is low in cobalt, yours might be alright.
What's your stocking rate to achieve that

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

Not all land is low in cobalt, yours might be alright.
What's your stocking rate to achieve that

Do you give the lambs a bolus wrangler? Or is it just the ewes?

Got a new batch of store lambs and whilst I will probably still bolus them, I am not sure the bolus is doing all it says on the tin either...

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Do you give the lambs a bolus wrangler? Or is it just the ewes?

Got a new batch of store lambs and whilst I will probably still bolus them, I am not sure the bolus is doing all it says on the tin either...

,

We give a bolus as well, Animax Allsure, the grass is low in Iodine as well, I just thought the lambs looked terrible last week when we were weighing, Our usual routine would be to give cobalt in the first dose at 6/7 weeks, bolus at 10 weeks
and then Cobalt in September usually.
I'm giving them .25 kg meal/day as well to try to slow up the wet grass going through them, I'd give them more meal but the grass is overtaking us everywhere so wouldn't like to reduce their appetite, If the merchants were using good quality minerals we wouldn't need to be bolusing

Farmer_3650

Box09 wrote: »

What are you feeding them on to get 1 kg a week in the height of winter? The cobalt if in liquid form needs to be every 2 weeks.

The stuff we use is 10mg cobalt/ml so I think you are right there. However there is 250mg Glucose Syrup/ml. Would too much Glucose Syrup be bad for them if I drench every 2-3 weeks? Mabye thats why its recommended to use once every 2 months.

J.O. Farmer

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

The stuff we use is 10mg cobalt/ml so I think you are right there. However there is 250mg Glucose Syrup/ml. Would too much Glucose Syrup be bad for them if I drench every 2-3 weeks? Mabye thats why its recommended to use once every 2 months.

Glucose is really liquid energy. All feed is broken down to glucose by the digestive system for absorption into the blood stream.

I don't see any issues from that.

memorystick

Last year I had 43 over 65 acres of grass and silage ground. They really skin it. They got a bag of meal (25 Kgs) daily for the last 6 weeks. Is this a good thrive? Only new to buying lambs.

kk.man

memorystick wrote: »

Last year I had 43 over 65 acres of grass and silage ground. They really skin it. They got a bag of meal (25 Kgs) daily for the last 6 weeks. Is this a good thrive? Only new to buying lambs.

Purchase and sales weight? And dates

wrangler

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

The stuff we use is 10mg cobalt/ml so I think you are right there. However there is 250mg Glucose Syrup/ml. Would too much Glucose Syrup be bad for them if I drench every 2-3 weeks? Mabye thats why its recommended to use once every 2 months.

The breakdown of your dose that you put up is 10mg PER LITRE of dose not per ml. Have you found it stated different elsewhere.
10mg per litre would be useless and probably a mistake, they'd meed 10mg per dose. Again it says 250mg per litre as well
Might be worth contacting the seller.

https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-b12-with-selenium

Farmer_3650

wrangler wrote: »

The breakdown of your dose that you put up is 10mg PER LITRE of dose not per ml. Have you found it stated different elsewhere.
10mg per litre would be useless and probably a mistake, they'd meed 10mg per dose. Again it says 250mg per litre as well
Might be worth contacting the seller.

https://sheepproducts.ie/collections/mineral-vitamins-1/products/cobalt-b12-with-selenium

Ya its a mistake on the website, I thought it sounded wrong so I checked the bottle and it said 10mg/ml.

wrangler

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Ya its a mistake on the website, I thought it sounded wrong so I checked the bottle and it said 10mg/ml.

,

That sounds reasonable, 25mg in a dose, would probably do three weeks which is the absolute maximum lambs can store cobalt, you should be getting a boost from it if cobalt is your problem.
But conditions are appalling at the moment, no lambs are thriving properly on grass

Farmer_3650

wrangler wrote: »

,

That sounds reasonable, 25mg in a dose, would probably do three weeks which is the absolute maximum lambs can store cobalt, you should be getting a boost from it if cobalt is your problem.
But conditions are appalling at the moment, no lambs are thriving properly on grass

Brutal conditions, Grass seems to be running straight through them, think I might start feeding meal to stop it running through them as quick. Thanks for your advice

wrangler

Farmer_3650 wrote: »

Brutal conditions, Grass seems to be running straight through them, think I might start feeding meal to stop it running through them as quick. Thanks for your advice

I'd guess that's the reason the price is staying up, farmers can't get lambs fit so they're scarce. a neighbour with lambs on typhon is getting great thrive and killout and they're staying clean as well. He also has lambs on grass and meal that look just like mine.

memorystick

kk.man wrote: »

Purchase and sales weight? And dates

25-30 kgs Oct to Feb
do the maths yourself

kk.man

memorystick wrote: »

25-30 kgs Oct to Feb
do the maths yourself

That was good. You have to remember that the finished lamb made good money in periods last spring it might not be the same next spring.

memorystick

kk.man wrote: »

That was good. You have to remember that the finished lamb made good money in periods last spring it might not be the same next spring.

they more than doubled last year. fierce dear at the minute. i follow Kenmare on Facebook

Nekarsulm

Carrigallen tonight,
23kg lambs, €63.
30kg lambs, up to €78

Green farmer

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Carrigallen tonight,
23kg lambs, €63.
30kg lambs, up to €78

might start wheeling out some of my 30kg lambs, if theres that type of money to be got for them

OneMan37

memorystick wrote: »

I buy stores In October and keep for 5 months. They get cobalt, wormer and vaccines on arrival and that’s it. Should I give cobalt more frequently? They usually put on 1 kg per week for the 20 weeks or so.

Need to vaccinate twice leaving 4 to 6 weeks before second vaccine. Otherwise lambs are only protected for a few months.