Need some advice.

Chickennuggets

So I did something stupid today and need some genuine advice.

I let a friend of mine from the UK drive my car on a long journey down south. He stupidity mistook the miles on my dash with km and ended up speeding and got clocked by a guard. The garda done him for speeding but when he seen the UK licence he questioned the insurance. My friend said he was insured in the uk, he let us go and told me to present a copy of my friends insurance to see if he is insured to drive on my car, ive 10 days to do this.

The issue is after checking his policy it shows that he isn't insured to drive my car. If I don't show the Garda the insurance documents I'll be summoned to court for letting someone drive my car uninsured.

Anyone from previous experience death with this ? Should I get a lawyer. I'm a health care worker and need my car for transport. Its my first offence and I've had a clean license.

It was a stupid mistake which I will never do again, lesson learned. I just need genuine advice on how to proceed on this. I'm just worried that it would affect my career having a criminal offence as a health care worker.

Thanks

unhappys10

I could be totally wrong but I don't know is there any legal repercussions for you, unless he hit another car or something.
It's his problem if he can't produce valid insurance?

Chickennuggets

unhappys10 wrote: »

I could be totally wrong but I don't know is there any legal repercussions for you, unless he hit another car or something.
It's his problem if he can't produce valid insurance?

Yes, basically the Garda said if I don't submit evidence showing that he is insured on my vehicle I will be summoned to court.

unhappys10

Did he say what for?
He was driving and he didn't have insurance.
What law says you'll get into trouble for letting him drive?
Maybe there is one but I've never heard of it.

tenreds

Happened to me before, as long as you say he told you he was insured to drive the car and he says the same you won’t get in trouble.If you say you knew he wasn’t insured you will end up in court as well

Piehead

Hapey wrote: »

For what offence? The garda is talking waffle.

I’d say it’s the friend talking waffle.

unhappys10

Found this here https://www.osullivankenny.ie/road-traffic-offences

"It is also an offence to allow somebody else use your vehicle when they are not insured to drive. In such circumstances the owner of the vehicle is also liable to be prosecuted for giving consent to a third party."

You could be in trouble after all.
But as said above, if you say they told you they were insured, but then are you expected to ask to see their insurance?

artanevilla

He told you he was insured, you are not qualified to inspect any documentation as genuine to prove as such even if your friend was to present it.

Chickennuggets

unhappys10 wrote: »

Did he say what for?
He was driving and he didn't have insurance.
What law says you'll get into trouble for letting him drive?
Maybe there is one but I've never heard of it.

He said for driving uninsured. He said he was going to seize the car but didn't as I had a clean licence and I took the wheel from then. Its not you common driving uninsured where it's straightforward.
He had me stopped for a good 30 mins querying my own insurance. He even rang my insurance to see if I had open driving. Which I didn't

bazz26

What is your friend saying about all this? Is he prepared to go to court with you or is he fecking back to the UK and leaving you dealing with the **** storm?

BTW you are probably best taking to a solicitor who deals in these cases as your not going to get accurate legal advice in the motors forum.

Eggs For Dinner

As someone stated above, it is an offence to allow an uninsured person to drive your vehicle and yes, the onus is on you to verify it. If prosecuted, get a solicitor to explain the circumstances and see what happens

Nekarsulm

Have you got "open driving" on your policy?
If so, anyone over 25 with a licence can drive it.

Chickennuggets

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Have you got "open driving" on your policy?
If so, anyone over 25 with a licence can drive it.

I did, but when I renewed my policy 3 months ago I took it off as it was costing me an extra ~200 euro. A series of unfortunate events.

Chickennuggets

bazz26 wrote: »

What is your friend saying about all this? Is he prepared to go to court with you or is he fecking back to the UK and leaving you dealing with the **** storm?

BTW you are probably best taking to a solicitor who deals in these cases as your not going to get accurate legal advice in the motors forum.

He flying back to the UK tomorrow. He was trying to get me to do something illegal which I'm not going to mention to get around the insurance , which I won't be going with. Safe to say ill be cutting ties with him as soon as he's over the sea.

lll be calling up solicitor on Monday and see. I'm just worried it'll effect my career or get disqualified. At this stage I don't care about points and fines they add to my license. Barely got any sleep last night over it.

unhappys10

At worst it'll be points and a fine.
I'd go to the guard and explain that he said he was covered. You now realise your mistake, no previous interactions with guards etc
See what he says.

listermint

unhappys10 wrote: »

At worst it'll be points and a fine.
I'd go to the guard and explain that he said he was covered. You now realise your mistake, no previous interactions with guards etc
See what he says.

Not sure you can get points and a fine. It wasn't him that committed the offence ?

unhappys10

listermint wrote: »

Not sure you can get points and a fine. It wasn't him that committed the offence ?

It seems it is an offence of some sort to let someone drive your car with no insurance, I didn't know that.

Hotblack Desiato

So you were in the car with this guy going 60% faster than he should have been and nothing seemed at all untoward to you?

Surely the first thing you'd say to a UK driver is "watch out, my dash is miles but the signs are km." And you'd monitor his speed at least until it looked like he'd got the hang of it.

If you were compos mentis enough to take over when stopped, why let him drive at all?

Henry Ford III

No UK policy is going to cover someone driving here I'd imagine.

OP definitely get legal help as your error of judgement could bite you.

Chickennuggets

This issue is I didn't manage to get the name of the Garda and he didn't tell me what Garda station he nominated. I was so shook by the suitation. First time I get pulled over so didn't know the protocol.

The garda seemed vary adamant that he wanted proof of insurance. We are fairly young (mid twenties) which doesn't help.


I'm speaking to a solicitor on Monday and see what I can do from there. Would anyone here recommend or know a good solictor dealing with road traffic offences?

Its looking like a court summons anyway.

Chickennuggets

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

So you were in the car with this guy going 60% faster than he should have been and nothing seemed at all untoward to you?

Surely the first thing you'd say to a UK driver is "watch out, my dash is miles but the signs are km." And you'd monitor his speed at least until it looked like he'd got the hang of it.

If you were compos mentis enough to take over when stopped, why let him drive at all?

He was only driving 20 minutes before we got stoped and we had only got on the motorway. He wasn't doing the full 60% He was caught doing 122 in 100. The road was going downhill and the Garda was just around a bend. I'm not making excuses here I should have been more vigilant. he had way more driving experience than and I expect him to know the difference between miles and km. It come to bite me now

It was 7 hour round trip so I was planning on taking breaks every 2 hours and he drives for 30-45 mins.

Nekarsulm

Chickennuggets wrote: »

I did, but when I renewed my policy 3 months ago I took it off as it was costing me an extra ~200 euro. A series of unfortunate events.

That's very unfortunate.... often open driving makes no difference to the premium.
Has he got "open driving" of other vehicles on his UK insurance?
If so, he needs to send you a copy of it.

Eggs For Dinner

Nekarsulm wrote: »

That's very unfortunate.... often open driving makes no difference to the premium.
Has he got "open driving" of other vehicles on his UK insurance?
If so, he needs to send you a copy of it.

It's not Open Driving of other cars. It's just the Driving of Other Cars Extension. If he has it, he needs to ensure the Territorial Limits of the policy include ROI. From what you have being saying, I think this lad will just abandon you to your fate.

Spook_ie

Would certainly talk to the solicitor, just as a thought though the "Clancy" law was designed for the owners of cars who allowed unaccompanied learner drivers to drive and was punishable by fines up to €2000 and imprisonment up to 6 months but I have no idea if they can extend the Clancy argument to cover this case as your friend ( presumably ) had a full valid licence.

Chickennuggets

Spook_ie wrote: »

Would certainly talk to the solicitor, just as a thought though the "Clancy" law was designed for the owners of cars who allowed unaccompanied learner drivers to drive and was punishable by fines up to €2000 and imprisonment up to 6 months but I have no idea if they can extend the Clancy argument to cover this case as your friend ( presumably ) had a full valid licence.

Yeah he had a Full UK Licence

gussieg

i do think the gard has put the wind up you enough to not do something like this again, but as you were in the car with him, you both have full licences , and its not as if he was doing 160 mph, and you are insured and as far as you knew he had insurance to cover him, that is all you can be done for , just dont let it happen again, and get some experienced legal advice .

Eggs For Dinner

gussieg wrote: »

i do think the gard has put the wind up you enough to not do something like this again, but as you were in the car with him, you both have full licences , and its not as if he was doing 160 mph, and you are insured and as far as you knew he had insurance to cover him, that is all you can be done for , just dont let it happen again, and get some experienced legal advice .

It's a serious offence and I very much doubt it will be dealt with as a slap on the wrist.

Wishbone Ash

Chickennuggets wrote: »

... I'm just worried that it would affect my career having a criminal offence as a health care worker.....

Chickennuggets wrote: »

... I'm just worried it'll effect my career or get disqualified....

I doubt very much that you'd be disqualified. Even if you were, it won't affect your career a a health care worker (unless you have been employed specifically as a driver). I know several people in the health service who have been convicted of much more serious offences and it hasn't affected their job. Even if convicted, it would be deemed a traffic offence. Health service questions about being convicted of a criminal offence usually add "with the exception of road traffic offences" or words to that effect.

CoBo55

gussieg wrote: »

i do think the gard has put the wind up you enough to not do something like this again, but as you were in the car with him, you both have full licences , and its not as if he was doing 160 mph, and you are insured and as far as you knew he had insurance to cover him, that is all you can be done for , just dont let it happen again, and get some experienced legal advice .

I hope you’re right but I think you’re making light of what was a serious offence. Ignorance is no defence unfortunately and it’s up to the owner to make sure that anyone who drives their car is insured. The only way out of it is to say they took the car without the owner’s permission, a non runner in this case.

Chickennuggets

CoBo55 wrote: »

I hope you’re right but I think you’re making light of what was a serious offence. Ignorance is no defence unfortunately and it’s up to the owner to make sure that anyone who drives their car is insured. The only way out of it is to say they took the car without the owner’s permission, a non runner in this case.

I hope so to. My current case is that I took my friends word that he is insured on good faith. But it is a serious offence as other have mentioned. At this stage I don't care if I get points/ hefty fine. As long as I don't get disqualified i would be happy out. I'm work as an essential service for covid testing and need the car as public transport is currently awful especially with restrictions. Hopefully that works in my favour along with a clean license. Lesson learned for sure

I'm seeking legal advice tomorrow so I'll have a better idea what I could be hit with.

The court I'll be summoned to will be in the same district that I committed the offences in I assume ? Will it be better to find a lawyer in that area ?

CoBo55

Chickennuggets wrote: »

I hope so to. My current case is that I took my friends word that he is insured on good faith. But it is a serious offence as other have mentioned. At this stage I don't care if I get points/ hefty fine. As long as I don't get disqualified i would be happy out. I'm work as an essential service for covid testing and need the car as public transport is currently awful especially with restrictions. Hopefully that works in my favour along with a clean license. Lesson learned for sure

I'm seeking legal advice tomorrow so I'll have a better idea what I could be hit with.

The court I'll be summoned to will be in the same district that I committed the offences in I assume ? Will it be better to find a lawyer in that area ?

Definitely consult with a solicitor, they aren't called lawyers here. Get one in your area who has a good reputation with traffic offences, going to a firm is usually better as they have certain solicitors dealing with different aspects of the law, house sales, crime, relationship problems etc, that way you'll get someone who mainly does traffic offences.

Chickennuggets

The area where the offence was committed is not the same area where I live. Will I better off contacting a solicitor in the area the offence took place as they are more fimilar with judge/area. Will will one from my own town suffice.

I live around 150km away from where the area the offence too place, so quite a bit

Nekarsulm

Chickennuggets wrote: »

The area where the offence was committed is not the same area where I live. Will I better off contacting a solicitor in the area the offence took place as they are more fimilar with judge/area. Will will one from my own town suffice.

I live around 150km away from where the area the offence too place, so quite a bit

I'd get one near to the Court.
Otherwise you'll pay handsomely for a Solicitor local to your home to take a full day away from the office, plus travel expenses.

CoBo55

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I'd get one near to the Court.
Otherwise you'll pay handsomely for a Solicitor local to your home to take a full day away from the office, plus travel expenses.

I wouldn't do that as you won't know anything about the person you're hiring, you're going to pay the solicitor for the day in court anyway.

bazz26

Hire the best one who can defend you, not the best one closed to you or the court.

Chickennuggets

Just had a call with a local solictor that has experience with the judge I'll be dealing with. He said the general outcome of driving uninsured/Letting someone drive your car uninsured is a 2 year disqualification 😳. However he said given my case as an insured driver, clean license and no criminal convictions and that I am an essential worker that he feels confident that we have enough of a case to avoid a disqualification. However at the end of the day it all depends on the judge.

What makes it worse is he said court summons can take a few months to come through. I've barely had any sleep the past 3 nights. I don't know how I'm going to manage having this over my head for months.

Thank you all for your help. Ill try keep this updated as I get new information about the case. And if anyone has information that could aid me with regards to this please do.

Beltby

Chickennuggets wrote: »

Just had a call with a local solictor that has experience with the judge I'll be dealing with. He said the general outcome of driving uninsured/Letting someone drive your car uninsured is a 2 year disqualification ��. However he said given my case as an insured driver, clean license and no criminal convictions and that I am an essential worker that he feels confident that we have enough of a case to avoid a disqualification. However at the end of the day it all depends on the judge.

What makes it worse is he said court summons can take a few months to come through. I've barely had any sleep the past 3 nights. I don't know how I'm going to manage having this over my head for months.

Thank you all for your help. Ill try keep this updated as I get new information about the case. And if anyone has information that could aid me with regards to this please do.

Did you view your friends policy yourself? I know mine covers me to drive someone else's Irish car in the UK. Reason is my friends and I share the driving when in the UK.

I would get your friend to present his policy to the guards. You have nothing to lose by doing this.