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Neighbour mounted roof on extension wall

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  • 21-08-2020 1:11pm
    #1
    quad_red
    Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    We have an extension out the back. Had argy bargy with neighbour who wanted our extension built on the boundary so they could build off it. We refused - extension is clearly 2 inches on our side with zero overhang. Very bad relations for a few years - they claimed we needed their permission (we didn’t - ground floor small extension - no planning permission required) and we should have given they our plans. We had gone into them and laid out roughly what we were doing and roughly when.

    That was a few years ago.

    Just back from hols now and i see out the top window that they’ve ‘squared’ the back of their house with a plexiglass roof that appears to be partially mounted on our extension. I can’t see exactly it appears flush to our extension from above.

    They’ve gone away for the day and I’m not sure what to do. They have not asked me to do this - but I’m not 100% sure it is mounted on our wall.

    Any advice here?

    Thanks


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    #2
    Ta ceist agam
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 387 ✭✭Ta ceist agam


    Wouldn't it be awful if that plexiglass roof that appears to be partially mounted on your extension 'blew away' because of the 'storm' while they were out for the day!


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    #3
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,582 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Ta ceist agam wrote: »
    Wouldn't it be awful if that plexiglass roof that appears to be partially mounted on your extension 'blew away' because of the 'storm' while they were out for the day!

    Wouldn't it be awful if the OP was convicted of criminal damage.
    quad_red wrote: »
    but I’m not 100% sure it is mounted on our wall.

    Any advice here?

    Thanks

    Yes, first be "100% sure" before you do/say anything, and follow the "proper" legal route to resolve it. You have 12 years before they can claim adverse posession


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    #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    quad_red wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    We have an extension out the back. Had argy bargy with neighbour who wanted our extension built on the boundary so they could build off it. We refused - extension is clearly 2 inches on our side with zero overhang. Very bad relations for a few years - they claimed we needed their permission (we didn’t - ground floor small extension - no planning permission required) and we should have given they our plans. We had gone into them and laid out roughly what we were doing and roughly when.

    That was a few years ago.

    Just back from hols now and i see out the top window that they’ve ‘squared’ the back of their house with a plexiglass roof that appears to be partially mounted on our extension. I can’t see exactly it appears flush to our extension from above.

    They’ve gone away for the day and I’m not sure what to do. They have not asked me to do this - but I’m not 100% sure it is mounted on our wall.

    Any advice here?

    Thanks

    It is for this reason what I always advise on building up directly centered on the party line.

    Both neighbors get to enjoy the wall and no wasted space in between should both sides wish to ever extend.

    Instead you get left with this bad relations going forward.


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    #5
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,346 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    is it mounted on the boundary wall or the extension?

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #6
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Gumbo wrote: »
    It is for this reason what I always advise on building up directly centered on the party line.

    Both neighbors get to enjoy the wall and no wasted space in between should both sides wish to ever extend.

    Instead you get left with this bad relations going forward.

    Are you suggesting to use the boundary wall as an external wall of the extension?


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    #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Are you suggesting to use the boundary wall as an external wall of the extension?

    As I said, when building, the extension wall will form the new boundary / party line.
    It’s centered down the middle.
    It’s a structural wall, fire wall, sound wall that’s capped at the top with a parapet.

    When the other side want to extend in the future the existing wall can be used as their extension. Roof connected and it’s already a purpose built party wall then.

    No messy loans in between. No messy fences running between 2 extensions that nobody can maintain. No infestation worries etc.

    And it’s the same party wall build up as every other house in the country.


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    #8
    kevcos
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭kevcos


    Gumbo wrote: »
    As I said, when building, the extension wall will form the new boundary / party line.
    It’s centered down the middle.
    It’s a structural wall, fire wall, sound wall that’s capped at the top with a parapet.

    When the other side want to extend in the future the existing wall can be used as their extension. Roof connected and it’s already a purpose built party wall then.

    No messy loans in between. No messy fences running between 2 extensions that nobody can maintain. No infestation worries etc.

    And it’s the same party wall build up as every other house in the country.

    Are you saying that in effect the original party wall is extended to become a new party wall should extensions be built?

    That really is the best solution for all the reason you point out but I thought that wasn't allowed?
    Cant understand why it isn't standard practice if it is allowed tbh.


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    #9
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,346 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    kevcos wrote: »
    Are you saying that in effect the original party wall is extended to become a new party wall should extensions be built?

    That really is the best solution for all the reason you point out but I thought that wasn't allowed?
    Cant understand why it isn't standard practice if it is allowed tbh.

    In many cases the party wall will need to be rebuilt with proper foundations as if the new wall is 9" solid on flat, the foundation will be 3 times that.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#part8-chap3
    is a good starting point


    It can be standard if both parties agree but it would add a great deal to the cost of estate houses if the boundary walls were built to accommodate extensions which might never get built.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #10
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    kevcos wrote: »
    Are you saying that in effect the original party wall is extended to become a new party wall should extensions be built?

    That really is the best solution for all the reason you point out but I thought that wasn't allowed?
    Cant understand why it isn't standard practice if it is allowed tbh.

    Yes it’s allowed. Yes it’s common.
    It’s just neighbors won’t talk to other neighbors to discuss.

    New 215mm solid block laid on the flat with suitable new foundation up to parapet height.

    Capped.
    Rendered/dashed on other neighbors side in colour/style of their choosing to keep all parties happy.

    On your side you then can work out your thermal and AT layers.


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    #11
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Yes it’s allowed. Yes it’s common.
    It’s just neighbors won’t talk to other neighbors to discuss.

    Not from my experience .Speaking to neighbours means nothing when there is a problem in 2/3 years .Im not sure what county you have this experience in but in the majority of of counties in Leinster that is not the advised way to build .

    In my experience the boundary line stays as is and you each build to your own side of the line.And if you ask your local planning department,I’m pretty sure that they will tell you the same.


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    #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Not from my experience .Speaking to neighbours means nothing when there is a problem in 2/3 years .Im not sure what county you have this experience in but in the majority of of counties in Leinster that is not the advised way to build .

    In my experience the boundary line stays as is and you each build to your own side of the line.And if you ask your local planning department,I’m pretty sure that they will tell you the same.

    Dublin. Across hundreds of similar products since 2002.

    Planning department have absolutely no say whatsoever in party wall agreements, civil agreements or any elements of structure, fire or sound.

    Planning will not advise your of any form of construction whatsoever.


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    #13
    scwazrh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,659 ✭✭✭scwazrh


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Dublin. Across hundreds of similar products since 2002.

    Planning department have absolutely no say whatsoever in party wall agreements, civil agreements or any elements of structure, fire or sound.

    Planning will not advise your of any form of construction whatsoever.

    Why would you ask planning any of those questions?The planning department are there for planning purposes only.As I posted , if you ask the planning authority can you build on a boundary wall they will say no .

    The boundary wall is not yours to build on , you own 50% only .Now your neighbour may say it’s ok go ahead but what happens if the neighbour changes their mind in a few years ?Or if the neighbour is not contactable when you are trying to sell your property and the buyers solicitor is checking the land registry as sees your extension is overhanging the boundary.

    Apart from that issue why would an architect or engineer advise a client to build on a boundary wall ,when the cost of removal , new founds , new wall and insulating a 225mm block will be considerably more then building a new wall on your side of the boundary?


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    #14
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    scwazrh wrote: »
    Why would you ask planning any of those questions?The planning department are there for planning purposes only.As I posted , if you ask the planning authority can you build on a boundary wall they will say no .

    The boundary wall is not yours to build on , you own 50% only .Now your neighbour may say it’s ok go ahead but what happens if the neighbour changes their mind in a few years ?Or if the neighbour is not contactable when you are trying to sell your property and the buyers solicitor is checking the land registry as sees your extension is overhanging the boundary.

    Apart from that issue why would an architect or engineer advise a client to build on a boundary wall ,when the cost of removal , new founds , new wall and insulating a 225mm block will be considerably more then building a new wall on your side of the boundary?

    I don’t think you understand how a parapet wall is built centered on the boundary line.
    No part of one side Of any extension overhangs or oversails. The wall itself is the party wall. Same as the shared wall in your house right now. All your wall plate and roof connections are on your side of the wall.

    You may also have missed the party wall agreement post.

    Also, you brought up planning departments not me. I pointed out that they were useless in civil Agreements and have no say in them whatsoever.

    No issues with selling on. Have bought and sold properties with extensions built on the shared boundary line. Have built recently too. Wall is structural should the next door. Sigh or ever want to extend themselves. Saves them building one wall at the very lease.


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    #15
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,378 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    scwazrh wrote: »

    In my experience the boundary line stays as is and you each build to your own side of the line.And if you ask your local planning department,I’m pretty sure that they will tell you the same.

    Not correct, as the land conveyancing act of 2009 confirms rights to someone wanting to build up to the centreline of a boundary.


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    #16
    g6fdyotp5nj2l7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 436 ✭✭g6fdyotp5nj2l7


    GerardKeating wrote:
    Yes, first be "100% sure" before you do/say anything, and follow the "proper" legal route to resolve it. You have 12 years before they can claim adverse posession


    Is it right that after 12 years nothing can be done. Does this apply in all situtations


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    #17
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    [Snip] has good channal on you tube you might ask him there or look up his office he seems to have sensible advice


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    #18
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Oliver Great Photograph wrote: »
    Is it right that after 12 years nothing can be done. Does this apply in all situtations

    The 12 years is mentioned in planning law for enforcement proceedings but adverse possession is a different piece of legislation that I wouldn’t pretend to know a lot about.


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    #19
    tscul32
    Registered Users Posts: 2,545 ✭✭✭tscul32


    A few years ago our neighbors wanted to extend and asked us about building on the boundary wall. Semi d's with L shaped kitchen to the back. We said fine cos we'd probably do the same at some point. Had friends who thought it would cause problems if we tried to sell, which we did, without extending. But it appeared to be a good selling point and the new owners have used it.
    Now we want to extend current house, neighbors have already done so but within the boundary, so when we do it either we agree with them to use the boundary wall or there's a wasted 10-12 inches of space between the two houses with the original wall in the middle.


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