Rivetting cockspur handles

carveone

Hi all,

I've some old aluminium windows with handles that are nigh falling off - they get very loose eventually. So I found some replacements and need to rivet the new ones onto the frame.

Would anyone out there in boardsland have done this before? I've measured up (as much as I can without taking the glass out) and the handle thickness at the mount is 3mm and the window frame width looks like about 4mm. Which is 7-8mm or so.

I get the impression you're supposed to add the rivet size (4.8mm) to this to get 12.8mm as the ideal size, which is supposed to fall within a "grip range". I've been looking all over the place and I've found 14mm as long as you buy a box of 500 (screwfix) or 100 (nuts and bolts.ie). Yeah, I need like 4 per handle!

It's a bit of a pain in the backside to find the rivet for this - is there a "usual size" or do people just buy PVC windows!

Staggeringly, I just found 4.8mm x 12.8mm rivets in the hardware shop in Baldoyle. They're obviously imperial 3/16 x 1/2" but do you think they'd do? Or should I just have a go and see?!

massy086

carveone wrote: »

Hi all,

I've some old aluminium windows with handles that are nigh falling off - they get very loose eventually. So I found some replacements and need to rivet the new ones onto the frame.

Would anyone out there in boardsland have done this before? I've measured up (as much as I can without taking the glass out) and the handle thickness at the mount is 3mm and the window frame width looks like about 4mm. Which is 7-8mm or so.

I get the impression you're supposed to add the rivet size (4.8mm) to this to get 12.8mm as the ideal size, which is supposed to fall within a "grip range". I've been looking all over the place and I've found 14mm as long as you buy a box of 500 (screwfix) or 100 (nuts and bolts.ie). Yeah, I need like 4 per handle!

It's a bit of a pain in the backside to find the rivet for this - is there a "usual size" or do people just buy PVC windows!

Staggeringly, I just found 4.8mm x 12.8mm rivets in the hardware shop in Baldoyle. They're obviously imperial 3/16 x 1/2" but do you think they'd do? Or should I just have a go and see?!

You will need a 5mm drill bit. Definitely remove the glass as you are going to either hit the glass when drilling out the old rivets.

carveone

massy086 wrote: »

You will need a 5mm drill bit. Definitely remove the glass as you are going to either hit the glass when drilling out the old rivets.

Thanks - I understand that bit and was quite tempted to use a scraper behind the rivet and leave the glass in but that's probably not worth it! :P

The issue I was having was how to know what length of rivet to use.

Maybe that's a "how long is a piece of string" question and I suppose the window people have lots of different types in their vans but I was hoping to get it right first time!

Mad_Mike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0UVo0YdCZk

Have a look at the video above and hopefully that helps

Mellor

carveone wrote: »

the handle thickness at the mount is 3mm and the window frame width looks like about 4mm. Which is 7-8mm or so.

Are you sure the frame material is 4mm? That's very heavy for extruded aluminium sections. How are you measuring this? Possibly mistaking a return for a thickness. I'd guess it's closer to 1.5-2mm.

Also, you are calculating your length incorrectly.
Grip length is the sum of layers to be joined. That's all you need as blind rivets will have that info on the pack.

Adding the diameter gets the total length of rivet. Total length is relevant for solid rivets.

carveone

Mellor wrote: »

Are you sure the frame material is 4mm? That's very heavy for extruded aluminium sections. How are you measuring this? Possibly mistaking a return for a thickness. I'd guess it's closer to 1.5-2mm.

I'm sure the edge is 4mm yes. I'm not sure the frame material is though - I pulled the seal out and measured this edge:



But the material could easily be folded such that the point the rivet attaches to is not 4mm. The obvious thing to do is take the glass out and check it properly but I'm on the second floor so I wanted to try and get a much better idea of what parts need to be got before I start getting ladders!

Mad_Mike posted a video from windowanddoorparts.ie. That's the video I first saw on youtube a few weeks ago and thought "Sure, that looks grand like". That site has 15mm rivets on which sort of give an idea but the youtube video itself does say "it depends on your handles".

(Edit: That's a really well done video by that guy - I've replaced old single glazed (with the nails and putty like) and I didn't know how straightforward double glaze is in comparison. I was a bit shocked at the weight though - wow they are heavy in comparison)

Also, you are calculating your length incorrectly.
Grip length is the sum of layers to be joined. That's all you need as blind rivets will have that info on the pack.

I think I was suffering from googlitis. Ie: The online sites like, say, screwfix have "14mm rivet" with no information as to grip length. I did figure out that you add the diameter to the grip length to get total length. Which for my guesswork was about 13mm.

Assuming I'm measuring it right. Which I might not be. Now other people in the apartment complex are asking me about it because their handles are the same! I'm the diy guinea pig now :P

Mellor

Definitely not a solid edge. It’s folded back on its self. If you remove the existing handle, which you have to do anyway. You’ll get an idea of the thickness.

Screwfix info is very lacking. I’d be going to a good hardware shop. A few euro extra is worth piece of mind.

carveone

Mellor wrote: »

Definitely not a solid edge. It’s folded back on its self. If you remove the existing handle, which you have to do anyway. You’ll get an idea of the thickness.

Screwfix info is very lacking. I’d be going to a good hardware shop. A few euro extra is worth piece of mind.

Damn! Thanks for that Mellor - I was totally caught out by that one!

You're absolutely right. I'll go to a hardware shop in the morning. I have 8mm, I know the hardware shop in Howth has 11mm and Baldoyle has 1/2" (12.6mm). That should give me a good range for starters. I'll pull the glass then and remove the handle and then I'll know for sure.

Thanks a lot for the help there.

carveone

Mellor wrote: »

Are you sure the frame material is 4mm? That's very heavy for extruded aluminium sections. How are you measuring this? Possibly mistaking a return for a thickness. I'd guess it's closer to 1.5-2mm.

(Just an update in case anyone googles for this type of thing)

1.5 to 2mm is more or less what it turned out to be. The aluminium is ridged and the distance varies. An 11mm rivet went in fine but was higher on the inside than the original rivets which worried me a bit so I drilled that out and went for 8mm (that I got in Lidl).

It's worth spending more on a decent rivet gun; the Lidl one I had worked ok if you had the hands of a gorilla :P