Giving early notice on lease (obligations/costs)

Habata

Hi, I've a one year lease and I'm giving notice early to my landlord that I need to move.

I'm doing my best to find an alternative tenant.

Is the landlord entitled to withhold my deposit, or charge additional fees due to me ending my lease early?

Habata

Habata wrote: »

Hi, I've a one year lease and I'm giving notice early to my landlord that I need to move.

I'm doing my best to find an alternative tenant.

Is the landlord entitled to withhold my deposit, or charge additional fees due to me ending my lease early?

If you can’t assign the lease, you are responsible for payment of rent up until the end of the lease. The LL is supposed to mitigate loss by renting as quickly as possible, but in the current climate that may be difficult. Yes, your deposit can’t be retained to cover rent you owe, and technically the LL can follow you for payment of rent up to the end of the lease, but that is unlikely.

Habata

The landlord was talking about the costs of getting a new tenent, am I liable for that?

Pkiernan

Habata wrote: »

The landlord was talking about the costs of getting a new tenent, am I liable for that?

Yes.

dennyk

Per the RTB, the landlord can withhold money from your deposit to cover any costs associated with your breaking a fixed term lease early (or leaving a periodic tenancy with less than the statutory notice period). That includes all rent owed until the property is re-let to a new tenant or the lease period ends (whichever comes first) as well as the costs to re-list and re-let the property. You can avoid that by finding a new tenant yourself and asking the landlord for permission to assign the lease to them; either they will agree and you can be out that way, or they'll refuse and you can then end your tenancy by giving the required notice without having your deposit withheld for that reason (though it could still be withheld for other allowable reasons such as rent arrears or damage to the property beyond ordinary wear and tear).

Assetbacked

Ask for permission to assign the tenancy (no strict format) as opposed to sub-letting, give the details of the proposed tenant to the landlord. If they refuse, give formal notice to terminate (minimum 28 days). Then when this period lapses it is a legitimately ended tenancy so no expectation that you don't get the full deposit back unless there is damage or excess wear and tear. I would dispute relisting costs in this context.

Assetbacked

Assetbacked wrote: »

Ask for permission to assign the tenancy (no strict format) as opposed to sub-letting, give the details of the proposed tenant to the landlord. If they refuse, give formal notice to terminate (minimum 28 days). Then when this period lapses it is a legitimately ended tenancy so no expectation that you don't get the full deposit back unless there is damage or excess wear and tear. I would dispute relisting costs in this context.

Given the current market conditions, a LL might be quite happy to allow assignment, op can’t find one though.

Habata

What constitutes formal notice? I gave notice over the phone. I'm a bit worried that that's not concrete

wandererz

Habata wrote: »

What constitutes formal notice? I gave notice over the phone. I'm a bit worried that that's not concrete

If you did not record the phone conversation then you probably don't have a leg to stand on.

Follow it up with a written notice (formal letter) and refer to the details discussed in the call if necessary. If you are going to refer to the call then also reference the date time & duration of the call. This should be available in your call log on your phone.

Take a screenshot of it including the number, date, time & duration. Save this to Gmail or Google Drive or similar online storage.
This can be referenced back to your mobile phone bill call details if the call details are overwritten on the phone after a period of time

Sad, but true.

Habata

Habata wrote: »

What constitutes formal notice? I gave notice over the phone. I'm a bit worried that that's not concrete

Notice must be in writing to be valid, a phone call/text/email, even if you can produce a recording/copy is not valid should a dispute arise. Unfortunately if you plan not to pay rent up to the end of your lease, or you argue about the deposit and this goes to the RTB, lack of valid notice on your behalf will be very much in the LLs favour.

Habata

Assetbacked wrote: »

Ask for permission to assign the tenancy (no strict format) as opposed to sub-letting, give the details of the proposed tenant to the landlord. If they refuse, give formal notice to terminate (minimum 28 days). Then when this period lapses it is a legitimately ended tenancy so no expectation that you don't get the full deposit back unless there is damage or excess wear and tear. I would dispute relisting costs in this context.

Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

wandererz

Habata wrote: »

Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

How much time is left on the lease?

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Habata wrote: »

Hi, I've a one year lease and I'm giving notice early to my landlord that I need to move.

I'm doing my best to find an alternative tenant.

Is the landlord entitled to withhold my deposit, or charge additional fees due to me ending my lease early?

If the landlord wants to hold you to the 12 months all you have to do is request to sublet or assign the lease and when they refuse that essentially nullifies the contract and you just give your notice.

For tenants a fixed term tenancy can be ended if:
the landlord has refused to allow you to sublet the tenancy. In this case, you must give notice depending on how long you have lived in the property.
If the landlord has refused a request by you for assignment of the lease.


https://www.rtb.ie/end...a-fixed-term-tenancy

Your notice period is 35 days

https://www.rtb.ie/end...landlord-should-give

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Habata wrote: »

The landlord was talking about the costs of getting a new tenent, am I liable for that?

No you are not liable for the costs of finding a tenant as you are allowed by law to find the tenant if the landlord refuses you just have to give your notice.

dennyk

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

No you are not liable for the costs of finding a tenant as you are allowed by law to find the tenant if the landlord refuses you just have to give your notice.

If you just up and leave without being refused permission to assign or sublet to a specific tenant/subletter, the landlord can retain part or all of the deposit to cover all associated costs, including things like listing costs and unpaid rent for whatever time the property is vacant while still within your original lease term.

If you do get refused permission to assign/sublet and give your own notice on those grounds with the required statutory notice period (and pay rent through the entire notice period), then no, the landlord can't withhold your deposit to cover costs associated with re-letting the place, even if you're leaving before your fixed term was set to expire. (If you fail to give the statutory notice period, though, then the landlord could withhold re-letting costs at that point on that basis...)

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

dennyk wrote: »

If you just up and leave without being refused permission to assign or sublet to a specific tenant/subletter, the landlord can retain part or all of the deposit to cover all associated costs, including things like listing costs and unpaid rent for whatever time the property is vacant while still within your original lease term.

If you do get refused permission to assign/sublet and give your own notice on those grounds with the required statutory notice period (and pay rent through the entire notice period), then no, the landlord can't withhold your deposit to cover costs associated with re-letting the place, even if you're leaving before your fixed term was set to expire. (If you fail to give the statutory notice period, though, then the landlord could withhold re-letting costs at that point on that basis...)

I'll repeat there is nothing in the legislation for costs associated with finding a new tenant eg listing an advert etc.

You are liable for the rent until the end of the fixed term lease unless you request and are refused to sublet/assign.

Can you point to the RTA for withholding a deposit for what you call reletting costs?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec16

(a) no amount of the deposit concerned shall be required to be returned or repaid if, at the date of the request for return or repayment, there is a default in—

(i) the payment of rent and the amount of rent that is in arrears is equal to or greater than the amount of the deposit, or

(ii) compliance with section 16 (f) and the amount of the costs that would be incurred by the landlord, were he or she to take them, in taking such steps as are reasonable for the purposes of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned in section 16 (f) is equal to or greater than the amount of the deposit,

(b) where, at the date of the request for return or repayment, there is a default in the payment of rent or compliance with section 16 (f) and subparagraph (i) or (ii), as the case may be, of paragraph (a) does not apply, then there shall only be required to be returned or repaid under subsection (1)(d) the difference between the amount of rent that is in arrears or, as appropriate, the amount of the costs that would be incurred in taking steps of the kind referred to in paragraph (a)(ii).

dennyk

Don't know what specific part of the law allows it, but the RTB list it as one of the reasons for withholding a deposit:

By law, a deposit is considered to belong to the tenant but the landlord can establish a right to keep the deposit in the following certain circumstances:

...

If a tenant provides insufficient notice of their termination of the tenancy, or they terminate a fixed term tenancy before the end of the agreed term.

Even Threshold appear to agree with the RTB on that, so presumably it's legit:

If you break a lease without having reasonable grounds to do so or do not give the correct notice of termination, you do not automatically lose your deposit however your landlord may seek to make deductions from or keep your deposit to cover expenses such as re-advertising, re-letting costs or lost rent.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

dennyk wrote: »

Don't know what specific part of the law allows it, but the RTB list it as one of the reasons for withholding a deposit:



Even Threshold appear to agree with the RTB on that, so presumably it's legit:

It’s not in the legislation, don’t take advice from Threshold and the RTB don’t give advice.

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

It’s not in the legislation, don’t take advice from Threshold and the RTB don’t give advice.

S78 M.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

davindub wrote: »

S78 M.

Damages don’t cover the cost of re-letting, advertising.

tuisginideach

What if the OP says he knows Joe Bloggs wants to take over tenancy but the same Joe has no proven source of income, no reference from a previous landlord and no deposit? If LL isn’t happy to have lease assigned to this particular Joe Bloggs, is the OP off the hook????

tuisginideach

tuisginideach wrote: »

What if the OP says he knows Joe Bloggs wants to take over tenancy but the same Joe has no proven source of income, no reference from a previous landlord and no deposit? If LL isn’t happy to have lease assigned to this particular Joe Bloggs, is the OP off the hook????

As long as Joe hands over the deposit and rent, the LL might well accept him. It seems that demand is not as high at the moment and there is supply, so the LL might be prepared to take a chance.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

tuisginideach wrote: »

What if the OP says he knows Joe Bloggs wants to take over tenancy but the same Joe has no proven source of income, no reference from a previous landlord and no deposit? If LL isn’t happy to have lease assigned to this particular Joe Bloggs, is the OP off the hook????

Yes, the landlord can not discriminate neither can the tenant the landlord is forcing to sub-let.

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

Damages don’t cover the cost of re-letting, advertising.

I think you might be misunderstanding what "damages" are....

Think about it, "damages" for breach of contract, etc...

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

davindub wrote: »

I think you might be misunderstanding what "damages" are....

Think about it, "damages" for breach of contract, etc...

A landlord has never been awarded damages for advertising costs related to reletting because it doesn't happen. The landlord either accepts the tenants request or denies it, terminating the contract.

Find me a determination report with an award of damages for reletting costs.

Posters on this board love threatening 'reletting costs' but in reality it isn't a thing.

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

A landlord has never been awarded damages for advertising costs related to reletting because it doesn't happen. The landlord either accepts the tenants request or denies it, terminating the contract.

Find me a determination report with an award of damages for reletting costs.

Posters on this board love threatening 'reletting costs' but in reality it isn't a thing.

Anyway, you asked for legislative proof which you now have. The landlord can indeed recover actual damages from the tenant.

You research your own determination reports!

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

davindub wrote: »

Anyway, you asked for legislative proof which you now have. The landlord can indeed recover actual damages from the tenant.

You research your own determination reports!

So an unsubstantiated threat.

All hot air as usual here from a certain cohort.

It's a real disservice to the sector that the most vocal are the ones with the least knowledge.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Breach of fixed term lease precedent:

The Tribunal was satisfied on the basis of the evidence before it the Respondent Landlord is not entitled to any sum in respect of rent arrears. The Tribunal finds that the Appellant Tenant left the property on 28 November 2018 without any giving any notice to the Respondent Landlord. This does not automatically give rise to an award in the Respondent Landlord’s favour.

The Tribunal are also not satisfied to award the Respondent Landlord any sum for arrears between the date the Appellant Tenants left the dwelling on 28 November 2018 and the date the dwelling was re-let in February 2019. Accordingly, the Tribunal is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the Respondent Landlord has not established a loss of rent arising from the Appellant Tenants vacating the dwelling without notice on 28 November 2018.

https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0519-003754_Report.pdf

Aiyana Shy Square

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

Breach of fixed term lease precedent:

The Tribunal was satisfied on the basis of the evidence before it the Respondent Landlord is not entitled to any sum in respect of rent arrears. The Tribunal finds that the Appellant Tenant left the property on 28 November 2018 without any giving any notice to the Respondent Landlord. This does not automatically give rise to an award in the Respondent Landlord’s favour.

The Tribunal are also not satisfied to award the Respondent Landlord any sum for arrears between the date the Appellant Tenants left the dwelling on 28 November 2018 and the date the dwelling was re-let in February 2019. Accordingly, the Tribunal is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the Respondent Landlord has not established a loss of rent arising from the Appellant Tenants vacating the dwelling without notice on 28 November 2018.

https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0519-003754_Report.pdf

Does this case relate to a fixed term tenancy and tenant leaving early?

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Breach of fixed term lease of 8 months with 7 months at €600pm left the landlord was awarded €1,800 as

The Parties signed a Letting Agreement dated the 13 August 2018 for the term of 1 year commencing on the 18 August 2018. The Respndent Tenants notified the Landlord that they had moved out before the expiry of the term on the 29 January 2019. The Tribunal accepts, the Landlord’s submission that the Respondent Tenants intended leaving the dwelling as soon as they completed the purchase of the new house in Kerry. The Tribunal is not permitted to award punitive damages under the Act and can only award damages to compensate the Landlord for his loss. The Landlord has a duty to mitigate his loss. The Tribunal accepts that the Landlord did mitigate his loss by carrying out the repair works himself and that this took longer having regard to the fact that he resides in Dublin. The Tribunal finds that a reasonable period of time to carry out the repairs and re-let the dwelling would have been 3 months from the date the Respondent Tenants vacated the dwelling and awards the Landlord €1,800 for the breach by the Respondent Tenants of the fixed term tenancy.

https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0619-003810_Report.pdf

Aiyana Shy Square

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

Breach of fixed term lease of 8 months with 7 months at €600pm left the landlord was awarded €1,800 as

The Parties signed a Letting Agreement dated the 13 August 2018 for the term of 1 year commencing on the 18 August 2018. The Respndent Tenants notified the Landlord that they had moved out before the expiry of the term on the 29 January 2019. The Tribunal accepts, the Landlord’s submission that the Respondent Tenants intended leaving the dwelling as soon as they completed the purchase of the new house in Kerry. The Tribunal is not permitted to award punitive damages under the Act and can only award damages to compensate the Landlord for his loss. The Landlord has a duty to mitigate his loss. The Tribunal accepts that the Landlord did mitigate his loss by carrying out the repair works himself and that this took longer having regard to the fact that he resides in Dublin. The Tribunal finds that a reasonable period of time to carry out the repairs and re-let the dwelling would have been 3 months from the date the Respondent Tenants vacated the dwelling and awards the Landlord €1,800 for the breach by the Respondent Tenants of the fixed term tenancy.

https://www.rtb.ie/downloads/tribunal-report/TR0619-003810_Report.pdf

While I am loathe to get between yourself and davindub, the mitigation of losses would surely require the advertisement of the property to get new tenants and reduce the amount the original tenant is liable for during the remaining term of the lease, would it not?

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

So an unsubstantiated threat.

All hot air as usual here from a certain cohort.

It's a real disservice to the sector that the most vocal are the ones with the least knowledge.

Dear God...pay attention.

Punitive damages = an award apart from actual damages suffered. RTB cannot award apart from illegal evictions.

Actual damages = monetary loss from breach of legislation or lease.

There is an obligation to mitigate your losses throughout the courts system.

Reletting costs are actual losses suffered by the LL.

Empty unit costs are also losses. But LL must mitigate loss....

Btw, you know a little, but not enough to be acting like an a**

The_Conductor

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

So an unsubstantiated threat.

All hot air as usual here from a certain cohort.

It's a real disservice to the sector that the most vocal are the ones with the least knowledge.

If you have an issue with a post- refute it factually without attacking other posters. Casting aspersions concerning other posters is not acceptable behaviour if you wish to continue using this forum. This is a one and only warning.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

A landlord will be awarded if a tenant ups and leaves a fixed term tenancy. They may get awarded one month to three months rent depending on the steps taken to mitigate the loss. They will be awarded for any damages and it's a very detailed process if you cared to read how the panel calculate this.

No where in all my years has a landlord been awarded for reletting costs.

It's a given a landlord may be awarded for lost rent but a landlord always has to re-rent the property and they are not awarded for this.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

If a tenant is unable to remain in their tenancy for the duration of their tenancy agreement, they should firstly speak with their landlord and explain the situation and see if an amicable resolution can be found. If a resolution cannot be found and the tenant leaves early, a landlord must also aim to mitigate their losses and find a replacement for the tenant to ensure that they face as few costs as possible.

If a replacement cannot be found, there could be bigger losses facing the tenant to cover what was due to the landlord for the time remaining within the tenancy agreement.


https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

If a tenant is unable to remain in their tenancy for the duration of their tenancy agreement, they should firstly speak with their landlord and explain the situation and see if an amicable resolution can be found. If a resolution cannot be found and the tenant leaves early, a landlord must also aim to mitigate their losses and find a replacement for the tenant to ensure that they face as few costs as possible.

If a replacement cannot be found, there could be bigger losses facing the tenant to cover what was due to the landlord for the time remaining within the tenancy agreement.


https://www.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf

None of what you have posted deals with letting fees being excluded from damages, the duty to mitigate or the examination of costs by the RTB is not disputed so why are you posting this?

And you are now quoting the RTB's published material, the same source you argued was not valid earlier. If you cannot specifically find something relating to letting fees, that is the point where you should stop....

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

davindub wrote: »

None of what you have posted deals with letting fees being excluded from damages, the duty to mitigate or the examination of costs by the RTB is not disputed so why are you posting this?

And you are now quoting the RTB's published material, the same source you argued was not valid earlier. If you cannot specifically find something relating to letting fees, that is the point where you should stop....

Apologies you were using the summaries from the RTB earlier so I thought this would be easier for you to comprehend as you don't seem to want to read the Acts.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Financial loss to a landlord as defined in the act is a loss of rent or a loss as a result of damage. There is no other loss. You have failed to provide an example in the legislation of how loss would permit so called 're-letting' fees.

Further, the landlord is advised to mitigate against further loss in the case of a tenant ending a fixed term tenancy prematurely therefore a landlord has to advertise the property as soon as it is evident the tenant has left because he will only be awarded damages for loss for a period. He will not be awarded for leaving a property vacant till the end of the fixed term tenancy.

I have provided two examples of determinations in cases of breaches of fixed term tenancy and if you cared to read them you would see that any award was calculated for actual damage to property and loss of rent for a period of time not for the remainder of the fixed term tenancy.


(b) in the case of a failure that does result in financial loss or damage to the landlord or his or her property—

(i) to pay adequate compensation to the landlord (or, if the failure consists of the non-payment of rent, pay the arrears of rent) or repair the damage fully, and

(ii) unless the failure is not of a continuing nature, to desist from the conduct that constitutes the failure or comply with the obligation concerned, as the case may be.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print.html

Damage and loss is directly associated with rent, rent arrears and damage to property. It is not associated with the costs of being a landlord or their obligations. As you will see from determinations you will not be awarded for a damaged rug when the rug is ruled as being old.

davindub

Aiyana Shy Square wrote: »

Apologies you were using the summaries from the RTB earlier so I thought this would be easier for you to comprehend as you don't seem to want to read the Acts.

I did not use any RTB reference, I pointed you to the term in the legislation which references damages for breach of contract.

I will be blunt, you posted a lot of "hot air" here and now you resort to interpreting the legislation yourself. Anyway, I'll leave you in your ignorance of anything useful relating to the matter.

Assetbacked

Habata wrote: »

Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

I have a friend who wanted to get out of a fixed term lease so emailed the agent to tell them and open the dialogue at how best to facilitate this. The agent refused to engage with any break of the lease so my friend asked to assign. The agent reiterated that the lease could not be broken so my friend said he was leaving on the last day before the next month's rent was due and told the agent the deposit could be kept in lieu of notice and that vacant possession would be provided on X date. The agent had no choice but to meet my friend, do an inspection and take the keys back.

Moral of the story, circumstances change and what's strictly legal isn't always the most pragmatic approach, particularly in an RTB context where tenants are favoured and a tenant acts reasonably.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

davindub wrote: »

I did not use any RTB reference, I pointed you to the term in the legislation which references damages for breach of contract.

I will be blunt, you posted a lot of "hot air" here and now you resort to interpreting the legislation yourself. Anyway, I'll leave you in your ignorance of anything useful relating to the matter.

You made a post S57M without comment.

I broke it down for you, with real life experiences and legislation, you resorted to personal attacks and now are storming out.

JustAThought

OP - why are you breaking the lease?

Habata

Assetbacked wrote: »

I have a friend who wanted to get out of a fixed term lease so emailed the agent to tell them and open the dialogue at how best to facilitate this. The agent refused to engage with any break of the lease so my friend asked to assign. The agent reiterated that the lease could not be broken so my friend said he was leaving on the last day before the next month's rent was due and told the agent the deposit could be kept in lieu of notice and that vacant possession would be provided on X date. The agent had no choice but to meet my friend, do an inspection and take the keys back.

Moral of the story, circumstances change and what's strictly legal isn't always the most pragmatic approach, particularly in an RTB context where tenants are favoured and a tenant acts reasonably.

I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?

JustAThought wrote: »

OP - why are you breaking the lease?

Can't afford it after a change in work.

The_Conductor

Habata wrote: »

I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?

Its extremely rare that a landlord would pursue a tenant in this manner (unless there were other reasons to do so- such as abnormal damage to the unit for example). I'd be exceptionally surprised if anything came from it.

tuisginideach

Habata wrote: »

I've a friend that lost their job and needs to offer 84 days notice in their rental. And they're considering leaving and forfeiting the deposit. How likely is it that they would be pursued for the remainder?
.

Hope they have the decency to tell their landlord the situation and not just walk out....

MacDanger

Habata wrote: »

Ok thanks. Landlord isn't making any moves towards renting it to someone else, and is insisting that I'm liable for next month, and have to forfeit the deposit.

Perhaps I should try and assign the tenancy

OP, you should definitely try to assign the tenancy, the LL either agrees (but runs the risk of you getting a less than desirable replacement tenant) and you continue looking for someone or he doesn't agree and you're free to leave with notice