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Model S (5 year old) v nearly new Kona

  • 17-08-2020 7:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3 Ecar123


    Strongly considering replacing my 8 year old Leaf which I’ve had for 5 years with something better/newer. I’m also moving into a phase where the house needs the ability to drive 200kms a day for both cars (wife has a diesel, which I use when necessary), so something with range is required.

    Without chatting with dealers yet it appears you could pick up a 2019 Kona for 32k ish, defo less than 34k and there are a few 2015 (ish) Models S’s for mid 30’s.
    64kw Kona is a good car - 4 year warranty remaining, 400+Kim’s of range etc.
    The Model S - only battery warranty remaining, some are high enough mileage, could be a bit costly over the next few years.

    Head is saying Kona, heart is saying Model S


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭ Miscreant


    2 completely different types of car right there. One is a small crossover type while the other is a large luxury type saloon.
    I would probably be inclined to go with my head on this one with the Kona but it depends on your circumstances too. The Kona is a small car but unless you're going to load it up with other people regularly, it should be fine.


  • Moderators Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Ecar123 wrote: »
    Strongly considering replacing my 8 year old Leaf which I’ve had for 5 years with something better/newer. I’m also moving into a phase where the house needs the ability to drive 200kms a day for both cars (wife has a diesel, which I use when necessary), so something with range is required.

    Without chatting with dealers yet it appears you could pick up a 2019 Kona for 32k ish, defo less than 34k and there are a few 2015 (ish) Models S’s for mid 30’s.
    64kw Kona is a good car - 4 year warranty remaining, 400+Kim’s of range etc.
    The Model S - only battery warranty remaining, some are high enough mileage, could be a bit costly over the next few years.

    Head is saying Kona, heart is saying Model S

    You might sneak a 2015 s from tesla.com CPO for ~35k if your keep eyes peeled and don't mind importing. Vrt would be nothing, or next to it (if you get cheap examples to hand and contest their valuation). CPO Tesla's come with usually at least 2 years full warranty. If you're in Dublin, it's a bit more appealing since their only Irish service center is there.
    Don't forget, Tesla's will very much likely only be able to charge on the AC units or the supercharger network, unless you pay €500 to get the CCS conversion. If lucky, you could get an S with a 22kW AC on board charger, so AC charging could be sufficient enough.

    A user here got a 2019 Kona for 32k (iirc) recently enough. Though that seemed rare last I checked.
    Model S would have much better finish though. Irish Kona was/is pathetically spec'd.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    You might sneak a 2015 s from tesla.com CPO for ~35k if your keep eyes peeled and don't mind importing. Vrt would be nothing, or next to it (if you get cheap examples to hand and contest their valuation). CPO Tesla's come with usually at least 2 years full warranty. If you're in Dublin, it's a bit more appealing since their only Irish service center is there.
    Don't forget, Tesla's will very much likely only be able to charge on the AC units or the supercharger network, unless you pay €500 to get the CCS conversion. If lucky, you could get an S with a 22kW AC on board charger, so AC charging could be sufficient enough.

    A user here got a 2019 Kona for 32k (iirc) recently enough. Though that seemed rare last I checked.
    Model S would have much better finish though. Irish Kona was/is pathetically spec'd.

    CCS conversion is €299 from Tesla and they can do it in your garden.


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ richardsheil


    Ecar123 you have PM


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    I was in a similar position, sat in a Kona and that made my mind up, they are tiny, even compared to your Leaf.
    You can get a Model S from the UK with all the bells and whistles for good bit less than €40 including long warranty but not at low €30s, you will have to hunt for it though and be ready to move.
    Kona will be cheaper, longer range and longer warranty but it’s boring, the Tesla will make you smile every time you drive it and eats the Kona in all other factors.
    You only live once


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    The fact you even consider Kona vs Tesla MS means the looks or size is not the deciding factor for you.
    I believe the real question here is: would you rather get 1 yo or a 5 yo car?
    Of course in the Tesla there’re tons of cool tings that supersede the Kona but you drove your Leaf for 8 years so if you plan to hold on to the next EV for let’s say 5 years how old would the Tesla be then...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Tesla V Kona
    Like Tyson V Little Johnny from the local boxing club.

    But.....

    Different cars that provide different things...

    Kona
    Good range
    Newer
    Warranty
    Reg plate

    Tesla
    Rare (relatively speaking)
    Fast
    Huge
    Comfort
    Goodies
    Wow factor
    It will stand out from the crowd, trust me.

    It comes down to your preferences. Are you into car?
    Would you like to own a Tesla at some stage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Don't get a Kona.
    They are the worst spec of the triplets

    If you want cheap and cheerful, get an e Soul. If you want a bigger car that you can fit people in, get the S.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Tesla will also get you

    Access to their Supercharger network, simply the best out there and with more sites planned in Ireland only to get better
    Over The Air updates, new features that arrive with an update, like your phone
    Ranger Service, most maintenance will be performed in your driveway, they come to you
    No need for Annual Servicing, Tesla themselves said no need and will not impact your warranty
    If you get the right car, Free Supercharging and Premium Connectivity (Google Maps etc) for life
    Much faster charging at high power chargers like Ionity and new eCars High Power Chargers
    A frunk!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    slave1 wrote: »
    Tesla will also get you

    Access to their Supercharger network, simply the best out there and with more sites planned in Ireland only to get better
    Over The Air updates, new features that arrive with an update, like your phone
    Ranger Service, most maintenance will be performed in your driveway, they come to you
    No need for Annual Servicing, Tesla themselves said no need and will not impact your warranty
    If you get the right car, Free Supercharging and Premium Connectivity (Google Maps etc) for life
    Much faster charging at high power chargers like Ionity and new eCars High Power Chargers
    A frunk!

    Well... I have to agree with the above... :) Really nice to have...
    Still 5yo car... am I the donkey on the bridge 😂


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,290 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    peposhi wrote: »
    Well... I have to agree with the above... :) Really nice to have...
    Still 5yo car... am I the donkey on the bridge ��

    No. I’d buy a 5 year old 535d over a 1 year old 520d.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Gumbo wrote: »
    No. I’d buy a 5 year old 535d over a 1 year old 520d.


    Same. (and I did!)
    If you want a number plate they sell them for €15 in halfords.
    Buy the car you like


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Ecar123


    Thanks for all the replies and I think it’s fair to say both head and heart have been represented! I did something silly and test drove a Model S, I’ll give a Kona a chance over the next week or so, but bloody hell, it’s going to be hard to beat the comfort in the car and sensation on the road. There’s a solidness or weight to the car and lightness at the same time that’s hard to describe. I know a BEV is a very different driving experience to an ICE, but the Model S is very, very different again, in a good way.

    Thanks again for the advice, I’ll let you know how it goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    E-Niro is another one.

    To be honest I'd get the newer car with the better warranty, you're doing huge mileage @200 kms daily if I read that right ?

    Tesla, could be massively expensive to fix, complicated car if it goes wrong.

    Depreciation will be a killer if you spend much money but add to that an expensive car with little to 0 warranty left.

    The Model S would be nice but I think I'd prefer newer and warranty.

    What's the mileage limit on the korean electrics ?

    Is it 7 years and 140,000 kms whichever comes first ?

    Vs 5 year old model s ?

    I'm driving more now I no longer work shift so I'll be driving around 40,000 a year now so depreciation on a new car will be massive.

    Depends on the depreciation on a 35-40K Model S, will it loose as much as the Kona in 5 years ?

    Personally, I'd favour the longer range of the 64 Kwh Korean cars with new batteries than a much less efficient Model S with more degraded battery.

    My PCP is up end of December on the i3 Rex and still haven't made up my mind, it's got enough range for my daily commute, no longer have work charging but I will probably need the Rex in the worst of weather for a few kms in Winter, I no longer have work charging either, the bad public charging infrastructure is a big turn off even if I would not need it most of the year I know it's undependable if I do at best.

    So, I'm in the exact same situation as yourself with the same thoughts running through my head but I think the E-Soul or E-Niro are the better cars the real question is if I could live with FWD EV and the driving satisfaction the i3 gives me ? So the id.3 is another one to think about.

    The Kona is really small too even makes the i3 feel big inside.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Compare the ID to a Model S, what heresy is this you speak of!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    slave1 wrote: »
    Compare the ID to a Model S, what heresy is this you speak of!!!

    Lol it wasn't a comparison just another option. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Ecar123 wrote: »
    Head is saying Kona, heart is saying Model S

    Depends on how risk-averse you are too.

    You wear a mask in public = Kona.
    You don't = older Model S.

    :D.

    To be honest, the fact they are so different & you're still considering both is mad - the Tesla longing is strong :pac:.
    I'd be seeking out an eNiro before a Kona, though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,513 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    I have little faith in long term EV powertrain reliability (which I'm not going to attempt to convince anyone of, it's just my opinion man) and so I'd be expecting either car to lunch its powertrain as soon as it's out of warranty.

    So I would buy a 5 year old Model S if I could afford for it to be worth less than 10k when the warranty ran out, whereas with a 2019 Kona I'd have 7 years of powertrain warranty remaining and then expect it to be worth about 5k.

    So running the maths, I'd consider the average depreciation of the Tesla to be 10k/year, and the Kona to be 4k/year. Feels about right.

    Expensive cars fail expensively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ richardsheil


    Mad_Lad wrote: »

    The Model S would be nice but I think I'd prefer newer and warranty.

    What's the mileage limit on the korean electrics ?

    Is it 7 years and 140,000 kms whichever comes first ?

    Vs 5 year old model s ?

    I.

    5 year old model s has warranty up to 8 years and 200000 km


    mileage corrected below with source


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Lumen wrote: »
    I have little faith in long term EV powertrain reliability

    I'd differ here. EV motors can live forever, with just a bearing at each end.
    I've worked on 3 phase industrial motors running conveyors in quarries in arduous conditions & they are amazingly robust.

    The rest of a Model S - not so sure though.

    I'd still have one, if it suited me though :pac:.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,384 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    5 year old model s has warranty up to 8 years and 200000 km

    That's not much to the OP driving 200 Km daily though is it ? Chances are his 5 year old Model S will have at least 140-160,000 Kms already.

    It's a big risk if something fails out of warranty.

    Korean cars 7 years but what's the mileage limit ?

    Depreciation is the real killer with that kind of mileage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭ richardsheil


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    That's not much to the OP driving 200 Km daily though is it ? Chances are his 5 year old Model S will have at least 140-160,000 Kms already.

    It's a big risk if something fails out of warranty.

    Korean cars 7 years but what's the mileage limit ?

    Depreciation is the real killer with that kind of mileage.

    Question was asked. Question was answered. Judgement up to OP

    Actually it is unlimited miles- see here https://tesla-info.com/doc/original-pre-March-2017.pdf


    Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty- see page 4 of warranty doc
    The Tesla lithium-ion battery (the “Battery”) and Drive Unit are extremely sophisticated powertrain
    components designed to withstand extreme driving conditions. You can rest easy knowing that
    Tesla’s state-of-the-art Battery and Drive Unit are backed by this Battery and Drive Unit Limited
    Warranty, which covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Battery or
    Drive Unit, subject to the limitations described below. If your Battery or Drive Unit requires
    warranty service, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a factory reconditioned unit. When
    replacing a Battery, Tesla will ensure that the energy capacity of the replacement Battery is at
    least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred. To provide you with even
    more assurance, this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty will also cover damage to your
    vehicle from a Battery fire even if it is the result of driver error. (Coverage will not extend to
    damage that had already been sustained before a Battery fire occurred, or to any damage if the
    Battery fire occurred after your vehicle had already been totaled.) Your vehicle’s Battery and Drive
    Unit are covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty for a period of 8 years or
    unlimited miles/km, with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery (manufactured before 2015)
    that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭ 10-10-20


    To defend the Kona: I have a 64kW version, and it's grand.
    Yeah, it's not huge, it doesn't have the fancy equipment, nor does it turn heads, but what it has going for it is range.
    I got from Dublin to Limerick with 50% remaining (the last half of the trip was in the rain) and after a 30min charge (6 EUR) I was back home in Dublin with 20% remaining.

    The frunk - I'm working on - I figure there's enough space over the engine for a 20kg travel bag... :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Ecar123


    Sorry folks. The 200km journey referred to the ‘odd day’ both of us would separately have that as a minimum drive, which rules out the 2012 Leaf being useful in the house. That only happens a few times a month, so it’s not a game changer but a headache the days it happens or we need to rearrange schedules so neither of us have long journeys on the same day. When I say long - I mean long by Leaf expectations!

    Depreciation and value of either in 5 years isn’t my biggest concern, in the end it probably won’t be that different between the 2. Reliability and cost of repair is the main reason I’m seriously considering the Kona. Btw - I think the e-niro looks very nice indeed but there aren’t any nearly as good value as the Kona second hand. Hence I didn’t include it.

    Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Ecar123 wrote: »
    Sorry folks. The 200km journey referred to the ‘odd day’ both of us would separately have that as a minimum drive, which rules out the 2012 Leaf being useful in the house.

    If it's just an infrequent 200km drive, get a year old Ioniq & save yourself €10k :).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,721 ✭✭✭ graememk


    Kramer wrote: »
    I'd differ here. EV motors can live forever, with just a bearing at each end.
    I've worked on 3 phase industrial motors running conveyors in quarries in arduous conditions & they are amazingly robust.

    Have Motors changed much over the years? we have a 3HP single phase one that must be pushing 60 yrs old, still running like a dream. but damn its huge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,513 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Kramer wrote: »
    I'd differ here. EV motors can live forever, with just a bearing at each end.
    I've worked on 3 phase industrial motors running conveyors in quarries in arduous conditions & they are amazingly robust.

    Unfortunately the Model S isn't running one of your amazingly robust quarry motors. Drive unit failures on the Model S (at least up to 2015) are common.
    Hopefully all the troublesome ones have been replaced under warranty by now.

    In any case, I include the battery in the "powertrain" and those are also not without issue. Every single report I've read of a megamileage Tesla includes at least one battery replacement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭ Vinnymcdonnell


    Wife has a Kona electric and I have a Tesla M3 on order, to be fair the Kona is fantastic. Range is very good too, well over 400kms in bad weather.
    Would go for one over a Model S personally


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Lumen wrote: »
    Unfortunately the Model S isn't running one of your amazingly robust quarry motors.

    Are you sure?

    :P.

    Joking aside, generally induction motors are extremely robust & reliable, but yes, I know older Teslas have issues & it's ultimately down to the op's risk aversion.

    I'd hate to be a 2014 Model S owner in 2022 needing a motor replacement or, indeed, battery replacement.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭ Sabre Man


    Lumen wrote: »
    So I would buy a 5 year old Model S if I could afford for it to be worth less than 10k when the warranty ran out, whereas with a 2019 Kona I'd have 7 years of powertrain warranty remaining and then expect it to be worth about 5k.

    Surely the batteries alone would be worth more than that at that stage if they were to be given a new life?


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