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Rules Question - Retaking a shot

  • 07-08-2020 2:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    So I was watching an interclub match a couple of weeks ago. On my home course there greens are fenced off to stop the sheep getting in on the green. If you hit the wire while your ball is approaching the green you can replay you shot again.

    So someone hit the wire on there approach shot, about 50 yards out or so. had a look at it and they were quite far away but still on the green. Decided to play again so they dropped another ball from where the original was plated.

    There was a bit of discussion with him and his partner, he then decided not to play again and picked up the ball.

    My question is, once the ball was dropped to retake the shot, is that now the ball in play, and by lifting it had he then in effect conceded the hole?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Once you drop the ball its in play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ JIdontknow


    Would have thought it was in play once dropped. Could it have been a case he got a bad lie or something when he dropped?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭ fred funk }{


    Normally with these things you must replay your shot, not a choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,583 ✭✭✭✭ PARlance


    Normally with these things you must replay your shot, not a choice.

    I've only see "must" when it comes to overhead wires iirc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭ fred funk }{


    PARlance wrote: »
    I've only see "must" when it comes to overhead wires iirc.

    Me too but surely a wire across the green is a similar scenario.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,583 ✭✭✭✭ PARlance


    Me too but surely a wire across the green is a similar scenario.

    Could be very hard to determine from a good distance out. I can't see why it should be a "must" myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 mike12


    Need to see the local rule.
    Generally if you drop a ball it's the ball in play.
    But you can drop a provisional and then someone sees your original it's not the ball in play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,841 ✭✭✭ fred funk }{


    PARlance wrote: »
    Could be very hard to determine from a good distance out. I can't see why it should be a "must" myself.

    I'd see it as interfering with the ball TBH. Imagine 30 yards out and chipping towards the green and blading it, it hits the rope and lands beside the hole. Just doesn't seem right to have a choice whether to retake or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Once you drop the ball its in play.

    That’s was my thinking, but I can’t find a rule that has this scenario specifically. Maybe because it’s a local rule you would have to state it in the rule?

    Local rule just says you can replay the shot again from the same spot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    etxp wrote: »
    That’s was my thinking, but I can’t find a rule that has this scenario specifically. Maybe because it’s a local rule you would have to state it in the rule?

    Local rule just says you can replay the shot again from the same spot.

    The only time it wouldn't be true it's if he declared it a provisional first (which he is entitled to do, technically) but he still doesn't get to choose which to play.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    He could have dropped to a crappy lie and that was the deciding factor against it so in my mind once dropped it's in play to avoid decisions after seeing how the ball drops (lie wise)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭ ChippingSodbury


    etxp wrote: »
    That’s was my thinking, but I can’t find a rule that has this scenario specifically. Maybe because it’s a local rule you would have to state it in the rule?

    Local rule just says you can replay the shot again from the same spot.

    I don't think the Local Rule needs to state how to take a drop: Local Rules only need to specify what is being overridden from the normal rules, everything else from the normal rules applies. It would be completely impractical to write a Local Rule otherwise because you'd have to cover every eventuality i.e. list all of the normal rules that apply.
    Here is the "Ball in Play" rule:
    14.4
    When Player’s Ball is Back in Play after Original Ball Was Out of Play
    When a player’s ball in play is lifted from the course or is lost or out of bounds, the ball is no longer in play.

    The player has a ball in play again only when he or she:

    Plays the original ball or another ball from the teeing area, or
    Replaces, drops or places the original ball or another ball on the course with the intent for that ball to be in play.
    If the player returns a ball to the course in any way with the intent for it to be in play, the ball is in play even if it was:

    Substituted for the original ball when not allowed under the Rules, or
    Replaced, dropped or placed (1) in a wrong place, (2) in a wrong way or (3) by using a procedure that did not apply.
    A replaced ball is in play even if the ball-marker marking its spot has not been removed.

    i think it's pretty clear that once you take the drop, the dropped ball is the ball in play unless it's declared as a provisional (wouldn't apply in this case). You can't have 2 balls in play at the same time so you can't "select" which one to play. Same applies to a provisional: it's not in play until the original is lost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 faffingaround


    I don’t know if it’s okay to jump in with a rules question on this thread or if there is a bigger thread for rules questions!

    I played a friendly game with two other lads recently. One of them plays a bit and the other was new enough to the game. It was not a competition but we were trying to play as close as possible to the rules!

    The guy new to the game was teeing off on a long par 4 and it was into a big wind. A gust of wind really picked up in his backswing and he was swinging really hard. He then barely hit the ball. It did not go more than 3foot sideways! He seemed embarrassed but we said just tee up again and hit. We all knew it was not a practice swing.

    He picked it up and put it on the tee and hit it. Was that his third shot? He was looking at me for an answer!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,674 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    I don’t know if it’s okay to jump in with a rules question on this thread or if there is a bigger thread for rules questions!

    I played a friendly game with two other lads recently. One of them plays a bit and the other was new enough to the game. It was not a competition but we were trying to play as close as possible to the rules!

    The guy new to the game was teeing off on a long par 4 and it was into a big wind. A gust of wind really picked up in his backswing and he was swinging really hard. He then barely hit the ball. It did not go more than 3foot sideways! He seemed embarrassed but we said just tee up again and hit. We all knew it was not a practice swing.

    He picked it up and put it on the tee and hit it. Was that his third shot? He was looking at me for an answer!


    So long as it didn't go outside the markers then it was his second shot.

    If it went outside the markers then it's his third shot as he's retaking from original position under stroke-and-distance penalty.


    If the first stroke results in the ball still remaining in the Teeing Area (i.e. not in front, outside of, or more than 2 club-lengths back from the tee markers) then you have the option to re-tee it anywhere within the Teeing Area for your second shot.
    (6) When Ball in Play Lies in Teeing Area. If the player’s ball in play is in the teeing area after a stroke (such as a teed ball after a stroke that missed the ball) or after taking relief, the player may:

    Lift or move the ball without penalty (see Rule 9.4b, Exception 1), and
    Play that ball or another ball from anywhere in the teeing area from a tee or the ground under (2), including playing the ball as it lies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blackwhite wrote: »
    So long as it didn't go outside the markers then it was his second shot.

    If it went outside the markers then it's his third shot as he's retaking from original position under stroke-and-distance penalty.


    If the first stroke results in the ball still remaining in the Teeing Area (i.e. not in front, outside of, or more than 2 club-lengths back from the tee markers) then you have the option to re-tee it anywhere within the Teeing Area for your second shot.

    Thats a new one on me (seems to be a new rule since 2019?)

    Previously you either took a penalty or play as it lies (it often came up during a mixed/foursomes where the first player has a fresh air and the second player has to play the ball as it lies (on whatever tee height it was at))


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,674 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Thats a new one on me (seems to be a new rule since 2019?)

    Previously you either took a penalty or play as it lies (it often came up during a mixed/foursomes where the first player has a fresh air and the second player has to play the ball as it lies (on whatever tee height it was at))

    Came across it on the RANDA rules quiz as some point, so not sure when it was introduced into the rules.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Came across it on the RANDA rules quiz as some point, so not sure when it was introduced into the rules.

    Seems terribly overcomplicated when they are trying to simplify the rules.
    I dont get why they would differentiate between a ball in play and a ball in play in the teeing area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭ blue note


    It's a very odd rule to bring in. Really the only people this can be useful for are absolute beginners prone to having fresh airs.

    Whatever about not getting past the ladies tees, I can't remember a time in at least 20 years where I haven't gotten past my own tees! Of course it's possible to shank one and hit a tree and bounce back within the teeing area or something, but that's a once in a lifetime type occurrence. And in that eventuality, I'd be happy enough to play it as it lies!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,674 ✭✭✭ blackwhite


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Seems terribly overcomplicated when they are trying to simplify the rules.
    I dont get why they would differentiate between a ball in play and a ball in play in the teeing area.


    I'd imagine it's targeted at very high handicappers - those who might struggle to reach the fairway if having to hit it off the deck. Would speed things up a bit if nothing else


    Fingers crossed I never need to use it! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭ higster


    Anything is possible...like a drive on first tee box...into a railway sleeper about 20 yards in front of tee box...right in the edge...see it come back at you and land 30 yards behind tee on putting green...like I said possible...just saying like...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    higster wrote: »
    Anything is possible...like a drive on first tee box...into a railway sleeper about 20 yards in front of tee box...right in the edge...see it come back at you and land 30 yards behind tee on putting green...like I said possible...just saying like...

    The argument is not that its not possible, its that we don't need a specific rule for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭ blue note


    In fairness there's no harm in the rule. Really the only guy it'll help is the absolute beginner and there's no harm in stopping him trying to hit a driver off the deck because he moved his first ball an inch.

    But I can't think why they came up with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    blue note wrote: »
    In fairness there's no harm in the rule. Really the only guy it'll help is the absolute beginner and there's no harm in stopping him trying to hit a driver off the deck because he moved his first ball an inch.

    But I can't think why they came up with it.

    Ah I agree, I just think when the effort was made to simplify the rules, stuff like this 1 in a million scenario doesnt really help the cause.


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