What to do (Nissan Leaf)

BoatMad

My wife drives a 2016 30kwh leaf , she clocks up around 50k km per year

She loves the leaf and it’s been completely trouble free

However today at 198k Km she now dropped another battery bar to 6 plus 3 , ie 4 bars gone , range is down to 130km approx

I’m wondering what to do , she retires in 12 months ,

Is there an option of a battery replacement ( UK ? )

On retirement her mileage drops to about 12-14 km

The alternative is flog it for peanuts , and buy a 2nd diesel.

If one factors in the depreciation this car is very expensive though not as bad as range rovers !

Currently on a fast charger she’s gets 110 km range from the GOM after 90 %

Interesting two bars were dropped since 150k km point, were this to continue it’s unlikely the car will be even usable for her commute within a few months

ELM327

Theres a dutch firm that do battery replacements and even expansion packs.
However before going down that road make sure you get the software update for the L30 from a Nissan dealer.

Worth noting too, that 4 bars gone is approx 37.5% degradation. (ie 15+ 7.5 +7.5+7.5)
That's terrible. I reckon in my similar aged Tesla model S with similar miles (175k km) I'm probably around 5-7% deg.
I've also seen that the Irish Youtuber Jan bart has a 2014 Zoe with high miles and less than 10% deg.

slave1

Has it had the BMS update, will not impact range but would improve resell value.
Personally, I'd keep, it's a great car, our second car too.

If you are going to replace then tick tock Brexit 31.12.20

BoatMad

slave1 wrote: »

Has it had the BMS update, will not impact range but would improve resell value.
Personally, I'd keep, it's a great car, our second car too.

If you are going to replace then tick tock Brexit 31.12.20

It has not had the bms update , I did not know about that

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Theres a dutch firm that do battery replacements and even expansion packs.
However before going down that road make sure you get the software update for the L30 from a Nissan dealer.

Worth noting too, that 4 bars gone is approx 37.5% degradation. (ie 15+ 7.5 +7.5+7.5)
That's terrible. I reckon in my similar aged Tesla model S with similar miles (175k km) I'm probably around 5-7% deg.
I've also seen that the Irish Youtuber Jan bart has a 2014 Zoe with high miles and less than 10% deg.

The degradation does seem extensive , especially as the last two bars went in about 6 months

BoatMad

slave1 wrote: »

Has it had the BMS update, will not impact range but would improve resell value.
Personally, I'd keep, it's a great car, our second car too.

If you are going to replace then tick tock Brexit 31.12.20

I’m quite happy to keep it but if the degradation continues it wouldn’t get her to the shops !

the_amazing_raisin

There's a company in Spain that will do a battery swap on a Leaf to a new 40kWh or 60kWh battery. I've seen a video of them working and they do a full replacement of all the cells with new ones and everything.

Obviously with current travel restrictions you can't bring the Leaf there, but you could arrange for the battery to be shipped there and back and use a local mechanic to remove/install the battery. They'll need to update the software but this seemed straightforward from the video (it was done via an android app)

According to an aritcle about them, it costs €9500 for the replacement if you let them keep the old battery cells, €11,000 if you want the old cells back (in case you want to re-use them)

Given the price of the replacement versus a Diesel-mobile, it's probably worth looking into. Consider also that at 50k km per year, you're probably saving €3000 at least on fuel costs against a diesel car.

I can PM you a link if you like, can't post it here as I think that counts as advertising

BoatMad

Practically battery replacement would be only practical as far away as the UK and would want to be under 6K. I can get a nice small diesel for 9K as fuel costs when my wife retires would be very small anyway

Doesn’t seem like many alternatives

We have saved a lot of fuel money , but if you add the fact that a mechanically perfect car is now worth near nothing , it’s been a very expensive overall purchase no natter what way you slice and dice it

the_amazing_raisin

BoatMad wrote: »

Practically battery replacement would be only practical as far away as the UK and would want to be under 6K. I can get a nice small diesel for 9K as fuel costs when my wife retires would be very small anyway

Doesn’t seem like many alternatives

We have saved a lot of fuel money , but if you add the fact that a mechanically perfect car is now worth near nothing , it’s been a very expensive overall purchase no natter what way you slice and dice it

It might be worth questioning Nissan regarding the battery warranty, it sounds like the degredation is worse than what would be expected for a car of that age.

Regarding replacement, I think you can get a second hand battery for around £5000, but I've no idea where you'd buy one. Obviously you'd need a mechanic to fit it but from what I've seen it's a straightforward job.

One other thing to consider with a battery upgrade, you may decide to use the car for more road trips if the range was extended, which would lead to greater savings. Even at 15,000 I'm per year that saving is around €1000, not an amount to be sneezed at.

graememk

BoatMad wrote: »

We have saved a lot of fuel money , but if you add the fact that a mechanically perfect car is now worth near nothing , it’s been a very expensive overall purchase no natter what way you slice and dice it

50k/ year is a lot, but just goes to show the strengths of a electric car.

First of all I'd really check if you've got the bms update, if it hasn't got it, it won't be reporting the proper battery health.

Also car isn't worthless, you'd be in the same situation with a value of the car if it was a petrol or diesel.

I don't know what value the car would be, but there's a 161 leaf on done deal for 11k with 15k km

So say you sold yours for 5-6k, there's a cost to change of 4-5k, and that's going on the list price of done deal.

Still a bit more than switching to a 9k diesel but you already have the charge point and are well used to running an electric car. (And then having to have more expensive services and the likes!)

unkel

If she is nearly retiring and will do less than average mileage after that, why not just keep the car? It is worth very little now, the car is known to you and will still do 130km. So what if that drops to 90-100km over the next 3-4 years? Still more than adequate for most retired people for their second car.

But of course if you have plenty of money to burn, you could buy a more modern EV...

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

It has not had the bms update , I did not know about that

You started another similar thread a few months back where the BMS update was pointed out...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112650797&postcount=6

That absolutely has to be your starting point before you do anything else. You will almost certainly get back 2 or 3 of those bars and a resultant increase in range.

Your car is one of the first L30's and is well known to have this BMS issue.

Go to your dealer, insist on the BMS firmware update. You have to specifically ask for it. They wont do it as part of routine service and its not an official recall so you have to ask for it.

BoatMad

I meant I didn’t know that it applied outside the USA. I was told it was only USA cars

But thanks , I’ll beat a path to the local dealer

BoatMad

unkel wrote: »

If she is nearly retiring and will do less than average mileage after that, why not just keep the car? It is worth very little now, the car is known to you and will still do 130km. So what if that drops to 90-100km over the next 3-4 years? Still more than adequate for most retired people for their second car.

But of course if you have plenty of money to burn, you could buy a more modern EV...

Yes indeed , happy to keep it. But it has to do another 40k Km and then it’s hers to act as a retirement car.

She Really doesnt want to spend money on a car

unkel

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes indeed , happy to keep it. But it has to do another 40k Km and then it’s hers to act as a retirement car.

She Really doesnt want to spend money on a car

There's your answer there then

3d4life

BoatMad wrote: »

...today at 198k Km she now dropped another battery bar to 6 plus 3 , ie 4 bars gone , range is down to 130km approx ....

Please can someone remind me, what warranty did Nisssan give with this Leaf model ?

KCross

3d4life wrote: »

Please can someone remind me, what warranty did Nisssan give with this Leaf model ?

8yrs and 160k km's so he is out of luck on the warranty side, but he probably doesnt need warranty. He just needs the BMS update done and then see where he stands.

extremetaz

The Dutch company mentioned is Muxsan.
I've dealt with them and used their MITM kit to fit a 40kWh pack into my 2012 Gen1 Leaf - it's an excellent solution with two caveats.

The first is that if you want them to do the work for you, you need to join the queue and get the car over to them in Delft for them to do the work. The other is that if you decide to do the work yourself, or have someone do it for you, you need to source your own replacement pack.

Either way, you should expect a 40kWh fitout is going to cost about €8k - however, and I can say this definitively as I've had my car from new and this is the second pack I've put into it (I just broke 300,000km this week) the 40kWh pack absolutely transforms the utility of the car!
It is well worth the investment if you're happy with the car and intend to keep it in service.

BoatMad, is this the only car ye have or do ye have another ?

If you only have the Leaf and the BMS update doesn't work out then there are plenty of Prius cars that should be reliable for years to come, should get one at decent price, I wouldn't ever go back to diesel, they're horrible yokes and it would probably be a manual too even worse.

Especially considering the public charging situation is still dire in Ireland I wouldn't be bothered messing around with queues and broken chargers on longer trips.

If your XYL is doing low mileage then it will not cost much to run but lets see what the BMS update does.

BTW, off topic but did you know I got my license after ? be good to chat on the Shortwaves. You can find my threads in the hobby radio section.

BoatMad

Just a follow up. Had the BMS upgrade done. It’s like a new car , regained 3 of the 4 bars and 40km of range

Brill

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

Just a follow up. Had the BMS upgrade done. It’s like a new car , regained 3 of the 4 bars and 40km of range

Brill

Excellent! Roll on the next 200k km’s!!!

Old diesel

Great that the update worked.

However if it goes wrong again another lower mileage L30 with 12 bars is also a potential runner imo.

Especially with the mileage drop that's incoming for your car.

In my house we have a broken ICE car issue and the idea of buying another ICE to replace it is annoying me even with it only been for 3 to 6 months.

And that's with me never having owned an EV.

Ta ceist agam

BoatMad wrote: »

Just a follow up. Had the BMS upgrade done. It’s like a new car , regained 3 of the 4 bars and 40km of range

Brill

Just a query if the 2014 Leaf24 is due this BMS upgrade too?

slave1

No, only early production Leaf 30 models

bobbyy gee

covered under the 36-month/36,000-mile basic warranty. And a used LEAF can be still covered under the 60-month/60,000-mile powertrain and electric vehicle system warranty, 96-month/100,000 miles battery defect & workmanship warranty and the battery capacity warranty that kicks in if the battery loses more than 30 percent of its charge capacity within 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. You can buy an app leaf spy turbo and it will test your battery

tedpan

I'm upto 150k kms in my 2015 leaf. It has 11 bars, a little shocked that you've lost so many. Will never sell it, still a fun little car and with covid I'm charging it less than once a week.

MickeyLeari

BoatMad wrote: »

My wife drives a 2016 30kwh leaf , she clocks up around 50k km per year

She loves the leaf and it’s been completely trouble free

However today at 198k Km she now dropped another battery bar to 6 plus 3 , ie 4 bars gone , range is down to 130km approx

I’m wondering what to do , she retires in 12 months ,

Is there an option of a battery replacement ( UK ? )

On retirement her mileage drops to about 12-14 km

The alternative is flog it for peanuts , and buy a 2nd diesel.

If one factors in the depreciation this car is very expensive though not as bad as range rovers !

Currently on a fast charger she’s gets 110 km range from the GOM after 90 %

Interesting two bars were dropped since 150k km point, were this to continue it’s unlikely the car will be even usable for her commute within a few months

An advertisement against electric cards. At least this highlights the real drawbacks.

KCross

tedpan wrote: »

It has 11 bars, a little shocked that you've lost so many...

But he hasn’t, he’s back to just one bar down. It was a software defect not actual battery degradation.

And he has 200k km’s done on a 4yr old car so it’s doing very well!!

KCross

MickeyLeari wrote: »

An advertisement against electric cards. At least this highlights the real drawbacks.

Why?

I think people are reading what they want to read here. The problem is solved!

tedpan

KCross wrote:

But he hasn’t, he’s back to just one bar down. It was a software defect not actual battery degradation.

KCross wrote:

And he has 200k km’s done on a 4yr old car so it’s doing very well!!

Ah apologies, late night reading and missed that!

Black_Knight

MickeyLeari wrote: »

An advertisement against electric cards. At least this highlights the real drawbacks.

Have a read on through the thread. It's a software issue Nissan have a fix for this while now. OP has gained back a few bars and a nice chunk of km too.

In the end it's a bit of a drawback of EVs, though the leaf never did itself any favours with passive cooling of the battery.

Markcheese

Black_Knight wrote: »

Have a read on through the thread. It's a software issue Nissan have a fix for this while now. OP has gained back a few bars and a nice chunk of km too.

In the end it's a bit of a drawback of EVs, though the leaf never did itself any favours with passive cooling of the battery.

In that sense passive charging in a country like Ireland probably makes a lot more sense than most other places ,
We're there fans to help cool the battery on the leaf , or is it totally passive .. ?

Tarant

Markcheese wrote: »

In that sense passive charging in a country like Ireland probably makes a lot more sense than most other places ,
We're there fans to help cool the battery on the leaf , or is it totally passive .. ?

No fans, no fins, just a 2 blocks, One twice the size and the poaches in the middle just cant disperse any heat. Its only a problem while fast charging, after the second/third charge they don't wont to cool down

slave1

No controlled cooling on a Leaf that charges at home or once a trip rapid is a non-issue, so very much a red herring for those of us with this charging pattern

the_amazing_raisin

slave1 wrote: »

No controlled cooling on a Leaf that charges at home or once a trip rapid is a non-issue, so very much a red herring for those of us with this charging pattern

Yeah I've only ever done 2 rapid charges in a single day once, with probably a 5-6 hour gap in between. Didn't see any issues of the battery overheating

I know it happens, there's been many cases where it's been shown. But it seems to be mainly when people are doing long road trips with multiple rapid charges on the way.

Bjorn Nyland recently did his 1000km challenge with a Leaf 62kWh and it did start rapidgating right at the end of the journey. He still managed around 700km or so on a hot day without any issues

I do believe Nissan should have fitted active cooling, especially to the newer Leafs since they've been advertising them as capable of long road trips

But I do feel the issue has been overblown somewhat, especially for the gen1 leaf which I imagine most users only use for short hops

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

No controlled cooling on a Leaf that charges at home or once a trip rapid is a non-issue, so very much a red herring for those of us with this charging pattern

It's bad tech, which irritates me.
However, factually, I agree. Especially on the L62.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah I've only ever done 2 rapid charges in a single day once, with probably a 5-6 hour gap in between. Didn't see any issues of the battery overheating

I know it happens, there's been many cases where it's been shown. But it seems to be mainly when people are doing long road trips with multiple rapid charges on the way.

Bjorn Nyland recently did his 1000km challenge with a Leaf 62kWh and it did start rapidgating right at the end of the journey. He still managed around 700km or so on a hot day without any issues

I do believe Nissan should have fitted active cooling, especially to the newer Leafs since they've been advertising them as capable of long road trips

But I do feel the issue has been overblown somewhat, especially for the gen1 leaf which I imagine most users only use for short hops

When I had my leaf24 in 2016-17, I did 60k in 12 months. I used to fast charge at least 3-4 times a week.
I did 800-1000km trips in a single day.



I sold it in 2017 with 110k km, and 92% SOH. I burned the sh1t out of the battery regularly and it stood up. I think the issue is not fast charging but simply time.

Any update from Boat_Mad as to whether he got his bms update ?

liamog

Post #21, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114386303&postcount=21

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Any update from Boat_Mad as to whether he got his bms update ?

Yes car received back 3 of the 4 bars and in the current temp is reliably returning 160km at indicated 100km/h. It’s great.

She’ll clock up another 50,000km this year

Our current plan is to buy another 30 kWh leaf with lower mileage

The car has been great , in fact it’s a advertisement for EVs not against it