The legality of faking college I.Ds?

Skelligmicheal

Under the 2001 Criminal justice act its illegal to attempt to counterfeit or own any counterfeited "instruments". However its not illegal to to own any counterfeited non instruments e.g an id card for somewhere that doesn't. However I can't find anywhere if its legal to counterfeit and own a college id card for somewhere that does exist e.g DCU because college I.D cards don't fall under the definition.

Credit Checker Moose

DCU very much exists.

Forging a card to obtain advantage is an offence. So using it to enter licensed premises would be illegal. Using it to obtain discounted travel would also be an offence.

hullaballoo

Yeah it's a fraud offence to use a false instrument.

I do not think it is prosecuted as such. If you are caught with fake ID in say a pub (remember them) or nightclub (assuming there will be any ever again) you will probably get a fairly serious talking to, card confiscated and sent on your way.

Using a fake college ID to get discounts is more likely to land you in more serious trouble. For transport, afaik even a legitimate college ID won't be accepted as you have to have the leap student ID. In my college years, there were separate IDs for Dart and bus so you have to carry both to use the (single) multitrip ticket thingy.

You needed 2-3 different ID cards to use the same ticket depending on where you were going and how much of a plonked the inspector was.

Peregrinus

Skelligmicheal wrote: »

Under the 2001 Criminal justice act its illegal to attempt to counterfeit or own any counterfeited "instruments". However its not illegal to to own any counterfeited non instruments e.g an id card for somewhere that doesn't exist . . .

I don't think this is correct. An instrument that states that I am a student at Skelligmicheal University is a false instrument whether or not SU exists - either way, if I am not a student there, the claim made in the document is a false one. Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 30(1)(h) explicitly provides that an instrument is false if it purports to have been made by an existing person where that person does not exist.

And under the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 25 making a false instrument with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine is the offence of forgery, and under s.26 using a false instrument with the same intent is the offence of using a false instrument.

seagull

I think it's fine to have one as long as you're not trying to pass it off as being real. Think about the Republic of Cork passports, for example.

Peregrinus

seagull wrote: »

I think it's fine to have one as long as you're not trying to pass it off as being real. Think about the Republic of Cork passports, for example.

This is correct. All of the offences involving forged documents require some intention to get someone to accept them as genuine. Without that intention, there's no offence.

Skelligmicheal

Peregrinus wrote: »

This is correct. All of the offences involving forged documents require some intention to get someone to accept them as genuine. Without that intention, there's no offence.

So assuming you sold someone a passport (or any other form of I.D) for somewhere that doesn’t exist without knowing their intention and they then used it to try and get into a nightclub they would be prosecuted and not the creator of the I.D?

Peregrinus

Skelligmicheal wrote: »

So assuming you sold someone a passport (or any other form of I.D) for somewhere that doesn’t exist without knowing their intention and they then used it to try and get into a nightclub they would be prosecuted and not the creator of the I.D?

A forges an instrument which he sells to B, who knows that it is forged. B then uses the forged instrument in a way that involves presenting it to C, in the hope or expectation that C will accept it as genuine.

There are two separate possible offences here:

B is committing the offence of using a false instrument (Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 26). The elements of the offence are:

- using a false instrument
- which you know or believe to be false
- with the inention of inducing another person to accept it as genuine
- so that that other person will do some to their own prejudice (e.g. expose themslves to a risk of legal sanctions for having underage persons in their nightclub).

What about A? The offence A might be committing is forgery (Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001 s. 25). The elements of that offence are:

- making a false instrument
- with the intention that it shall be used to induce another person to accept it as genuine
- so that that other person will do some to their own prejudice

It doesn't matter whether A intends to use the false instrument himself, or he intends that someone else will use it.

Note that there's a difference between intention and motive. Having someone use the false instrument doesn't have to be A's motive for forging it. His motive is simply to make money by selling it. He doesn't actually care whether or how the purchaser uses the false instrument.

Nevertheless, you're presumed to intend the reasonably forseeable consequences of your actions. A may not care what his purchasers do with their forged instruments, but if his forgeries have value (and so can be sold) in large part because they can be used fraudulently, and most of his customers buy them with a view to passing them off as genuine, then A intends that they will be passed off as genuine, because it is reasonably forseeable that that is how they will be used.

And this, I think, may be where the idea creeps in that forged documents for fake institutions are OK. If A makes a fake ID card for Skelligmicheal University, he might reasonably say that he considers them to have humorous or novelty value only. There is no Skelligmicheal University to whose premises, library, etc somebody might use the card to seek admission, and third parties presented with the card are likely to be aware that the University does not exist. So it might be hard to convict A of forgery because you couldn't prove that he had the necessary intent.

But if A fakes an ID card for TCD or UCD, he cannot plausibly claim to believe them to have novelty value only. So he is at much greater risk of prosecution/conviction for the s.25 offence.

In B's position, it make little difference. If he actually produces the forged Skelligmicheal University ID card to try to gain admission to a nightclub, then he is trying to get someone else to accept it as genuine and he is committing the s. 26 offence, just as much as if he were using a forged TCD ID card.